Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 18, 2019 8:41 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by DJ [VA]) Mar 18, 2019 9:31 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by Vee [OH]) Mar 18, 2019 9:33 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 18, 2019 9:56 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Mar 18, 2019 11:27 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 18, 2019 11:57 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 18, 2019 11:57 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Mar 18, 2019 12:09 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 18, 2019 12:46 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by Ken [NY]) Mar 18, 2019 1:00 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Mar 18, 2019 1:39 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Mar 18, 2019 1:50 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by Pat [VA]) Mar 18, 2019 5:24 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by Robin [WI]) Mar 19, 2019 6:02 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Mar 19, 2019 8:52 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Mar 19, 2019 11:47 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by Shelby [IA]) Mar 19, 2019 7:57 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Mar 20, 2019 2:30 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Mar 21, 2019 2:19 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Mar 21, 2019 3:21 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by kkezir [KS]) Mar 27, 2019 5:20 AM
Sharing your lease...? (by GreatAction [NC]) Apr 3, 2019 3:05 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 3, 2019 3:24 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by GreatAction [NC]) Apr 3, 2019 4:02 PM
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 8:41 AM Message:
I know Jeffrey and Brad are kind enough to share their leases with us here, and there are standard state lease forms out there too. But do you share YOUR personal lease with anyone?
Just had a phone call from a Realtor who worked with one of my old tenants (good ones) to help them buy their house. But they are also friends and when the tenants' signed my lease they first ran it by her.
She said she has a few rentals herself and she was so impressed with the detail and the addressing of every little thing that could go wrong (the clauses are in there because those things have HAPPENED LOL!)
She asked where I got it, and I told her it was based on a standard NC lease, but the rest I wrote myself, based on all the advice from this Board, from the Conventions and Boot Camps and also from the results of Tenants doing things I just didn't think of!
Now I know she wanted me to offer it to her, but I'm not an attorney OR a Realtor and I'm not giving out my words so I could be sued for some reason, you know?
What do you do when someone asked for your lease? I did direct her here, and told her to get The Landlord's Kit of forms, and to check out the Convention and Boot Camp. --50.82.xxx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 9:31 AM Message:
It's a shame we have to think of how to cover ourselves from the overly-litigious society we live in - but it's true.
However, anyone could just copy a lease that is in the hands of a tenant, then use it. (I guess her friend threw hers out?)
I did recently share mine with my auto mechanic that I've known for about 30 years. He is also a part-time landlord (who doesn't to it very well, from his stories).
He asked me for advice on how to improve his screening process, etc. I gladly shared with him, because I believe he is trustworthy (YES! An honest mechanic!)
I prefer to approach life trying to help others to be better, and in general improving the quality/reputation of our profession. But of course, specific info needs to be redacted, and disclaimers given. I am not a lawyer either.
I know people out there are looking for lawsuits and an easy buck if they can get it.
However, if I made every decision based on the fear of "what if someone did....."
Well, that's just no way to live - my opinion - and I won't be surprised if I get nipped a couple times. Roll with it & move on.
BTW: I bought Brad's lease a while back, and was amazed at how much info came with it, when I briefly scanned it. Now that I have more time, I will soon be able to dig into it more deeply. I'm sure there are a lot of document revisions in the future, based on all the info and tips I've been saving from this forum.
--68.10.xxx.x |
Sharing your lease...? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 9:33 AM Message:
I also tell them it comes from years of experience and tenant based attrition, and I consider selling on auction starting at 350,000 to compensate for my losses and time.
--76.188.xxx.x |
Sharing your lease...? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 9:56 AM Message:
Many have terrific leases. The proof is in the pudding. Because each "market/county" has it's own set of rules, laws, codes and procedures -- You must have a "lease" that is "Court" ready for an possible eviction.
For example in my Grade "C" apartments, tenants don't have a pot to piss in. No assets, little income and therefor judgement proof.
So on my "attorney fee's" awarded to the prevailing party, I limit it to $500.
So if my tenant get some HOT SHOT Legal wizard that charges $700 an hour and $26,000 for their services -- I am only obligated by my lease to pay out $500 in legal costs (if I loose the case). --47.156.xx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 11:27 AM Message:
WMH do you want a critique or a snow job answer? I wouldn't want you to think I was picking on you? --99.103.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 11:57 AM Message:
Oh go ahead and crique MYOB. I wouldn't believe the snow job ;) --50.82.xxx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 11:57 AM Message:
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 12:09 PM Message:
So let's get this straight-- your prospective tenants ran the lease by their realtor? REALLY??????????
We approve a tenant. make a time for lease signing and don't bring anyone other than tenant and manager. Why not take a knife and stick yourself in the eye? Seriously though, if there adults, there is no way I give out my lease. It's proprietary and not up for grabs and it's not for sale.
Do you really want your property passed around? You worked hard to get it just so and just for you and it's given away?
Sorry! NO WAY.
As far a s helping people as we do here it's great verbally but again I spent 35 years developing and learning what papers to file when and I'm not just going to GIVE that away.
My business is managing. I don't teach classes or sell products because that's not what I do-- although some do -- do it. --99.103.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 12:46 PM Message:
#1) At the time, friend was not a Realtor. She's new into that business, about a year. They have been gone two years. She remembered reading the lease with her friend and being very impressed. They are both Russian and very precise and particular about things.
#2) I let tenants read my lease before signing. It's very long and detailed and I don't want them claiming later they were not allowed to read it. And I don't want to spend hours with them WHILE they read it - so they get a PDF copy to read and ask questions about.
#3) I rent to a lot of younger tenants and first timers. They want to run the words by their parents or friends - that's fine. Again, I want them to understand what they are signing.
Could someone take it and use it for themselves? Of course. But most of my tenants are not also landlords, so it would be of little use to them. Most of them don't even ask for a signed copy back from me (it's all done electronically) unless they need it to prove residency for some reason.
But if someone asks for it for themselves, no, I'm not handing out a copy for someone else to use...that's MY sweat and tears in that thing (for real.)
And back in the paper copy days, every tenant had their own copy anyway. --50.82.xxx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 1:00 PM Message:
A random person wants it then no but if a landlord I know wanted certain clauses then sure or a friend who is a landlord wanted it ok but the way mine is written it takes me time to explain how to use it properly since I have spots to pick weekly rent vs monthly rent and certain addendums don't get used in certain circumstances etc. --72.231.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 1:39 PM Message:
WMH thanks for explaining.
I haven't read a lease in 12 years with or to a tenant. Funny and none have asked..... it's long also 12 pages. While they're signing and initialing I tell them if you have any questions later call the office. NONE have called either. I also tell them the manager has walked through and inspected. Here is the move in inspection list. We have not lived here so if after you move in you find something that needs to be added to the move in inspection-- write it down and send it in. Maybe 4 in a year will add something-- like cracked window.
I just don't baby sit people any longer I'm sorry. I don't wipe behind Johnny's ears cause he's young. It's a standard lease-- nothing is illegal in it so they can't say "OH I don't like that" -- "take it out" -- cause the answer is no. It's not a negotiation with tenant. I am not here to make them feel better or their parents feel like there in charge-- sorry.
In all honesty does it really matter in 12 months if they read it or not-- REALLY be honest? NO! --99.103.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 1:50 PM Message:
I find the better the class of tenant, the more they want to know what they are signing, MYOB. And mine is not a standard lease - as I've said before it's a living document that changes each time a tenant moves out and gets creative on ways to damage the place that I never dreamed off LOL!
Fists through doors and drywall screws through window sills are obvious damage and need no special language but it's in there anyway. *Car* bumper stickers on fridges are not normal and apparently DO need to be explicitly banned. Planting 5 bazillion plants that were actually trees and invasive plants is another now-banned practice. No washing of throw rugs in the provided washer is another. Buy a new rug.
My "regular" lease is 6 pages, NC standard. 8 addendums. --50.82.xxx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by Pat [VA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2019 5:24 PM Message:
I am mildly amused when I see local non-pro landlords (one inherited house, etc.)copying my exact verbiage in their craig's list ad.
Important things like 3'xs the rent in income (verifiable). No unlawful detainers/evictions need apply. And you all know the rest, blah, blah blah. Pets considered on a case by case basis, with additional pet deposit. --71.219.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2019 6:02 AM Message:
Just because you give someone a circular saw doesn't mean they know how to use it. My concern would be that they would use it in the wrong municipality or not keep it current with changes in local law or understand its limitations or....
And, having "paid" for it through hundreds of hours of research, study, interaction w/other LLs, etc. I'm not inclined to just hand it out to any get-rich-quick wannabe. It's part of getting yourself educated. --104.166.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2019 8:52 AM Message:
WMH, I agree with you that more qualified tenants will want to know what they are signing and that is really what they should do. I also agree with others that the tenants could show the lease to anyone at any time and people can make copies. I did read on another post a while back that if you are going to let the tenants preview the lease it needs to be watermarked SAMPLE.
Like DJ, I bought Brads lease and have yet to view all the in formation. It is a pretty thorough lease and as with any papers or otherwise you may need to adjust to your state and local laws.
myob, Do you not think it helps everyone to be on the same page if you go over the lease with your tenants? --73.120.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2019 11:47 AM Message:
6 bye, after so many years of dealing with tenants, Few if any will do what the contract says. Sorry to bust your bubble on that.
Can I ask you -- what difference does it make it I read it to them? Do you really think in 12 or 24 or 36 months they will say gee the lease says I can leave any time I want and even though it says dep is returned in 30 days-- I want mine sooner. As long as everything is to tenants liking the lease is OK for them. Just say no you can't do that ONE time and you will learn the hard way.
As you know we have a much different business model then most. We don't want anyone more than 3 terms. We don't forgive and forget. They get a spotless home and frankly that's what we want back. Our big difference then most is:WE MAKE THEM FOLLOW THE LEASE--- Pay what they owe and if not see you in 6 or 7 years with a garnishment. Yes when they least expect it and they think ah ha i got away with that one. NOT. --99.103.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by Shelby [IA]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2019 7:57 PM Message:
My sister and her husband rent and have been in 5 different places over the years. He relocates for his job every year to 2 years. So I always ask her about her leases she signs and she gives them to me to read and add to my own leases. I have two good landlord friends, if they asked to see my lease I wouldn’t care but someone I didn’t know well, I wouldn’t want them to steal from mine. --173.26.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Mar 20, 2019 2:30 PM Message:
myob, thank you for responding. What if they switch jobs how do you track them down to there new job? --73.120.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 21, 2019 2:19 PM Message:
It's necessarily to get their jobs. You need them to be served by the court. Personal service by either the sheriff or process server.
One very interesting technic is this. When you speak to them let them know there is one of 2 ways this is going to get to you. You can give me your address and I'll send it to you OR I can have the sheriff bring it to your boss for him to give to you while your on job.
Second is Internet, truthfinder and facebook-- you wouldn't believe what people say on facebook or twitter. Again one of our secrets is to wait- wait- wait. Let the dust settle and they will forget about you. Then 2 years later-- when they apply for credit or when they get a court notice AGAIN you can serve them at home. Once brought into court the judge will have them give the info or they'll be in contempt.
Lastly-- in toady's world and with our criteria that a tenant must be on the job long term-- they're not leaving that job. They have seniority, there making top pay and they're not going to quit like they did in the old days to make you FIND them.
You know when you have a judgment and your rying to buy a house-- that nasty thing shows up-- or if you take a job that requires you be bonded-- you can't have that showing up.
--99.103.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Mar 21, 2019 3:21 PM Message:
myob, thank you. --73.120.xx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by kkezir [KS]) Posted on: Mar 27, 2019 5:20 AM Message:
DJ(VA) I saw that you bought Brad's lease. Where did you buy it at? --165.201.xxx.xxx |
Sharing your lease...? (by GreatAction [NC]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2019 3:05 PM Message:
WMH, now I understand why you did not share your sample lease when I asked, even though you had posted - "I send it out to anyone who asks, why not?"
Since my property is in Charlotte, NC, I have been very interested in obtaining a copy of your lease, even if I had to pay for it, considering that you seem to do so well with it.
However, this time you wrote, "My "regular" lease is 6 pages, NC standard. 8 addendums." Oh, well, I can do that! At most my addendum could get thrown out in court. I think I can write a good addendum.
My property manager was insisting on using the NC standard lease and I thought I was at risk because I did not have a "good enough" lease.
I am glad the mystery is solved.
I do like your approach to solving problems and your posts on this useful forum. --65.188.xxx.x |
Sharing your lease...? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2019 3:24 PM Message:
GreatAction, sorry I don't remember you asking but you are right that I say, "I sent it out to anyone who asks, why not?" By that I meant prospective TENANTS not other Landlords...I would actually be happy to share "in person" at places like the Convention, but not online with people I don't know (who might or might not be another LL!) And I wouldn't sell my lease because it's NOT officially court-tested.
Sticking with the official NC lease as a baseline and ADDING addendums is where I operate. Better legal minds than I created the base lease! --50.82.xxx.xx |
Sharing your lease...? (by GreatAction [NC]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2019 4:02 PM Message:
I understand. We hope to make it to the convention one year. Knowing that you add addendums to the standard nc lease helps me a lot.
This forum seems to be for property owners who manage their properties themselves. Even though I use a property manager for one property, I still learn a lot from this forum.
Thanks for the clarification. --65.188.xxx.x |
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