Evicting hoarder
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Evicting hoarder (by Lisenby [WI]) Feb 21, 2019 12:10 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Moshe [CA]) Feb 21, 2019 1:06 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Robert J [CA]) Feb 21, 2019 1:19 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Larry [MN]) Feb 21, 2019 1:53 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Hoosier [IN]) Feb 21, 2019 2:33 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Robert J [CA]) Feb 21, 2019 3:16 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by AllyM [NJ]) Feb 21, 2019 3:19 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Lisenby [WI]) Feb 21, 2019 4:07 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Mike45 [NV]) Feb 21, 2019 5:03 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by NE [PA]) Feb 21, 2019 5:20 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Vee [OH]) Feb 21, 2019 6:13 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Arnold [OH]) Feb 21, 2019 11:20 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by CGB [MI]) Feb 22, 2019 3:55 AM
       Evicting hoarder (by RentsDue [MA]) Feb 22, 2019 5:50 AM
       Evicting hoarder (by Larry [MN]) Feb 22, 2019 7:47 AM
       Evicting hoarder (by don [PA]) Feb 22, 2019 8:48 PM
       Evicting hoarder (by Wilma [PA]) Feb 24, 2019 10:37 AM


Evicting hoarder (by Lisenby [WI]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 12:10 PM
Message:

Discovered tenant we inherited in the purchase of a 32 unit apartment building - tenant for 25 years - is a hoarder. We filed for an eviction in September 2018. Tenant lawyered up using Judicare. Tenant was diagnosed, after being served with eviction, with hoarding disorder with his a recognized disability. The basis for our eviction is health and safety of tenants in the other 31 residential units and 6 commercial spaces. He is 3rd floor center of the building. After mediation and several reschedulings, we were in front of the judge last week. Judge deferred ruling. Wanted 10 days to research and would rule. Today we received a letter from the judge requesting 3 things and giving us 15 days to respond. I can handle 2 of the 3 requests. Here is the 1 I am stuck on and would appreciate feedback, guidance, direction, anything to help me navigate this item:

Any legal authority that goes to the question of whether alleged discrimination under the Federal Fair Housing Act, the Wisconsin Fair Housing Act of the Americans with Disabilities Act is actually an affirmative defense to eviction or whether it merely creates an independent cause of action in the form of a lawsuit by a victim of discrimination under one of the previously mentioned pieces of legislation.

--184.97.xx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 1:06 PM
Message:

Under ADA, you are merely required to offer a "reasonable accommodation" to his disability.

What if you allow him to stay provided that his tenancy meets certain criteria? Regular inspections, frequent satisfactory cleanups, health dept inspection, ...?

You can probably set things up so that if he fails to meet the agreed upon criteria, then he confesses judgement to eviction.

--47.139.xx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 1:19 PM
Message:

I and other landlords had hoarder's as tenants. So I had to "play the game".

First I did a scheduled inspection. To test the smoke alarms, etc. I told the tenant that something needed to be done because there was stuff piled to the ceiling and the walkways or paths were only 9 inches wide. We had to walk sideways. So after the conversation I sent the tenant a letter asking for their help and please clean up. I told the tenant that I would be coming back in 30 days.

A month later the tenant did zero work. I then told the tenant that I was willing to help. Provide trash bins, trash bags, gloves, trash bags, vacuum, cleaner, towels, etc. I'll even get helpers to assist.

I rented a 3 yard dumpster and gave the tenant supplies. Again a month later nothing was done.

I then gave the tenant a 30 day notice. To either make the unit safe and habitable or move!

I then had a fire inspector review the unit and issue an official notice to the tenant.

I then issued the tenant a 5 day notice to perform or quit.

I then had the tenant meet with my attorney to try to work things out. We offered official help. We then took the case to an eviction court.

We won.Why? Because this tenant put other tenants in the apartment complex in danger. It was a fire trap, unsafe, etc.

The judge did not give me possession, but issue the unit not habitable and the tenant could not sleep there. The tenant was limited to work in the unit from 8 AM to 7 PM. After that he could be arrested.

A month later we came back to the eviction court, with a report from the fire inspector. No improvement. I was allowed to place everything in a storage locker and pre-pay 3 months of storage rent. The tenant was out. --47.156.xx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by Larry [MN]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 1:53 PM
Message:

Robert J, I'm curious about what happened to this tenant. Where did he/she go and what happened to all the stuff after 3 months in storage? Plus how do you move a hoard from an apartment to a storage unit? Was the tenant present? Wasn't most of it trash? --75.146.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 2:33 PM
Message:

I don't understand how a judge can allow a person to stay living in those conditions. Someone who is willing to compromise their own health and safety should be in a hospital or treatment center where they can get counseling for this type of thing. Having a cluttered house is one thing, but to the point of unsafe/unhygienic conditions is a different thing.

I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction...sorry I cannot offer you help on the legal language. --99.92.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 3:16 PM
Message:

The guy had a live-in live-out girlfriend that also used this apartment for storage. Between the two of them and their cat that used the entire apartment as it's litter box -- the comedy unfolded like this.

I rented a storage place a few blocks away. I piled the stuff to the ceiling of the storage place. Around half of the stuff inside the apartment was junk. Other peoples trash. So long as I took a pictures before throwing half of the stuff out, I was okay. Like a typewriter that had six broken keys and no paper roller -- trash.

The tenant had a month to move his stuff out. Since he hadn't left the Judge, fire inspector and Housing issued a RED Tag, not to be lived in. He kept on sleeping there at night so I just allowed the Sheriff to do a lock out a month later. I then moved all of the stuff (half of the stuff) into a local storage rental -- getting the first month free and paying for the next two months in advance.

The tenant moved in with his girlfriend who rented a room in a house nearby. The storage place called that the tenant was trying to sleep in the storage place. In time the tenant stopped paying the rental fee at the storage place so they locked him out and then evicted him. Don't know much more after that, except another of my tenants said they saw the tenant going thru garbage bins collect more junk. --47.156.xx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 3:19 PM
Message:

I think Robert J's point that hoarding is a fire hazard is what you have to use to move this tenant out. Is there a fire hazard in the unit or is there just too much stuff for your taste? Any behavior on the part of this tenant that can cause a fire or other hazard to the other tenants has to be actionable. Where is your lawyer on this? That includes covering electrical plugs in the wall I believe and is there a fire extinguisher visible? Has your fire inspector been in there and what does the health department say? It sounds like you went into this with no ammunition. --173.61.xxx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by Lisenby [WI]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 4:07 PM
Message:

The health and safety issues have been well covered with the judge and he is agrees The face on our arguments the eviction would be granted. However he is trying to get to the reasonable accommodation portion of fair housing for a disabled individual. We have offered 60 days we would go in clean the unit completely at our expense. The defendants attorney feels that is not reasonable accommodation because the tenant has attachments to all of the items in his apartment and needs to be treated for his disorder. However the attorney has not given a timetable for that treatment nor a plan of how the unit will be taken care of. 13 different agencies and organizations have been contacted to assist with the cleanup. However each organization that has been the unit back out because it is so bad. --107.77.xx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 5:03 PM
Message:

I have no authority to cite, but it has been my understanding that if a T claims a mental disability as an affirmative defense against eviction, the Court may require the LL to allow a reasonable accommodation on a trial basis (test basis), and continue the hearing for 30 days or so to see if the accommodation has resolved the problem.

In one hoarder case, the judge continued the hearing for 30 days, and the T agreed to get a storage unit and moved much of his stuff out of the apartment. The problem: The hoarder then re-stocked his apartment with even more new stuff and the place was just as filthy, unhealthy and dangerously over-packed 30 days later.

--71.38.xx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 5:20 PM
Message:

Having been there 25 years, I would have left him alone. Just keep raising his rent until he moves vs getting all legal over it. --50.107.xxx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 6:13 PM
Message:

I think I would ask a insurance adjuster to quote the increase of this unit is to be used as a hazardous storage and raise the rent to allow hazardous habitibility for this tenant, what has a fire department inspector said about this, that is what is happening in the suburbs around me, city rules unit is unsafe, 45-90 days then the city comes and cleans out so the stretcher can get thru. Lots of seniors on the news holding aluminum pie plates from kids birthday parties 30 years ago.

--76.188.xxx.x




Evicting hoarder (by Arnold [OH]) Posted on: Feb 21, 2019 11:20 PM
Message:

I had a family with four children that were hoarders. The sewer drain clogged in the basement. The sewer repairman refused to clime through and over the stack of stinking trash to get to the drain opening. When a clothes washer broke down, they left the wet clothes in the washer to rot away. The house was heavily infested with rats. Fortunately for me the father lost his employment and they moved out of town owing me only two months rent. It took me six weeks to get all of the trash, junk, stink, and rats out of the house before I could do repairs. --173.91.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 3:55 AM
Message:

In my opinion, a reasonable accommadation is used in an effort to treat the medical disability to help the person live a normal life. A wheelchair ramp for example. Also, a reasonable accommodation should not adversely affect the other tenants. Maintaining a fire hazard because a tenant has an attachment to items is not a reasonable accommodation. --67.149.xxx.xx




Evicting hoarder (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 5:50 AM
Message:

I understand allowing reasonable accommodations. I also understand that not allowing them in considered discrimination. However, the key word is REASONABLE. If the apartment in it’s current state is a safety hazard to the tenant or others, then I would argue that it is not reasonable to allow it to continue. A safety threat should outweigh the tenants emotional need to hoard. It’s equivalent to removing smoke detectors because the blinking lights make a schizophrenic tenant nervous. It sounds like you have offered a reasonable accomodation and even offered it at your expense. Since his attorney is not giving any timeframe ( stall tactic), I would offer to pay 3 months storage of his junk. --71.10.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by Larry [MN]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 7:47 AM
Message:

Thanks for the follow-up Robert J. Interesting to read that you were able to throw out stuff the was literally trash.

I find the show hoarders fascinating. They just keep collecting. --75.146.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by don [PA]) Posted on: Feb 22, 2019 8:48 PM
Message:

The judge is asking for legal research on a specific procedural issue. As far as the state law, check Purdon's Annotated Statutes, it gives the state statute and also court holdings related to each section. Honestly, unless you have experience doing legal research and access to a law library, bite the bullet and get yourself to an attorney ASAP. --73.141.xxx.xxx




Evicting hoarder (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Feb 24, 2019 10:37 AM
Message:

Hoarding is an emotional thing - hoarders attach great importance to what most of us would view as "junk". It's troublesome to me that a landlord would have such a hard time getting someone out who has created a fire hazard.

I pray that my screening methods keep me from dealing with that sort of thing. --71.175.xxx.xx





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