Holdover Tenant?
Click here for Top Ten Discussions. CLICK HERE for Q & A Homepage
Receive Free Rental Owner Updates Email:  
MrLandlord Q & A
     
     
Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 6:47 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Steve [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 7:27 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jerry [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 7:29 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 14, 2019 7:42 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by GKARL [PA]) Feb 14, 2019 7:50 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 14, 2019 7:54 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Dave [MO]) Feb 14, 2019 8:06 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Johnny B. [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 8:45 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Hoosier [IN]) Feb 14, 2019 9:21 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Robert J [CA]) Feb 14, 2019 10:02 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by cjl [NY]) Feb 14, 2019 10:18 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 10:19 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 10:30 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by fred [CA]) Feb 14, 2019 12:30 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jim In O C [CA]) Feb 14, 2019 12:54 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Steve [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 3:09 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Vee [OH]) Feb 14, 2019 6:46 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Feb 14, 2019 7:05 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 14, 2019 8:20 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 15, 2019 11:40 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jerry [MA]) Feb 16, 2019 9:59 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 16, 2019 11:37 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 16, 2019 11:40 AM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Robin [WI]) Feb 16, 2019 5:58 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 16, 2019 6:04 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 16, 2019 6:16 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 16, 2019 6:36 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Feb 16, 2019 8:01 PM
       Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 16, 2019 8:20 PM

Click here to reply to this discussion.
Click Here to send this discussion to a friend

Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 6:47 AM
Message:

I have never had a holdover tenant and I donít know that this one will be considered a holdover. This situation has many layers... like the stinky onion that it is. The short version is that tenant gave 30 day notice and is using her last months rent deposit , but I do not think she is actually leaving. I think she just doesnít have the rent and is trying to prolong the eviction process. She asked me what would happen if she didnít leave after the 30 days. I told her she would be evicted. She has been there almost a year and has never even had one complaint, now suddenly ( when she is supposedly leaving in a few weeks) she has problems with the place and everything is an emergency with this one. There arenít any actual problems but she is being taken care of immediately because I can see the trees through the forest here. I donít know what, if anything, I can do ahead of her impending departure to get ahead of this. If she doesnít leave I donít want to send the NTQ for non-payment because that is giving her the opportunity to stay. I want her gone.Its not a non payment situation , the tenancy was terminated by her when she gave me notice. I will contact an attorney if the situation declines but Iím looking for some ď boots on the groundĒ advice.

--71.10.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:27 AM
Message:

Does your rental agreement have a substantial increase in use & occupancy fee for holdovers? --96.237.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jerry [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:29 AM
Message:

It sounds like she hasn't paid February rent, thinking that her security deposit will cover her last month's rent. It doesn't work that way. Rent is rent, and the security deposit is not rent. You need to notify her about her unpaid rent immediately, and file for eviction asap. Don't wait until she says she will be gone, do it now. --71.233.xxx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:42 AM
Message:

The month is half over. Sounds like she will win this one no mater what you do. Putting tenants in charge usually doesn't end well for the landlord.

--76.120.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:50 AM
Message:

You should have filed on her immediately. --64.121.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:54 AM
Message:

I am seeing this differently. It sounds like this tenant paid their Last Month's Rent in advance (at move in) and that is what she used for February's rent... --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 8:06 AM
Message:

Is your deposit the same as one months rent?

If so, change it to a hundred less or any number not equal to one months rent and this should eliminate a tenant trying to pull a fast one on you.

The way I read this,she is a pita now. I would post a pay or vacate notice and proceed with and eviction immediately. --108.243.xxx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Johnny B. [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 8:45 AM
Message:

If you have her pre-paid last months rent already and she gave proper notice that February was her last month, thereís nothing additional that you can do in the meantime in terms of serving a notice. When you drop off the vacating cleaning instructions you could offer some form of enticment like saying if youíre out on time and the unit is left clean and undamaged Iíll return your security deposit within 48 hours and include an additional $100. Sounds like she needs money so the thought of getting the security deposit back so quickly may motivate her. As an alternative, if she wants to stay, offer her a weekly rent option (assuming you would consider keeping her). --107.77.xxx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 9:21 AM
Message:

I agree with most....file for eviction immediately if she is in default (late rent). Make sure all communications are in writing. Be pleasant and professional, and be careful making any commitments to her. Hopefully she will vacate peacefully before the eviction hearing. --99.92.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 10:02 AM
Message:

Many times tenants who "says" they are moving, try to use their "Deposit" as a lasts months rent. I don't have a last months rent, only a first months rent plus a security deposit.

I let my tenant know that they did NOT pay a last months rent, they only have a "deposit", so RENT IS DUE and payable.

Then if not received I issue a 3 day notice to Pay Rent or Quit.

Sometimes when a tenant was never lied, always called if the rent was going to be late and has proof of hardship, then I ask for proof of their new residency. If they can not prove they are moving, then I may ask for half a months rent until they can establish to my satisfaction they are really going to move out. --47.156.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by cjl [NY]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 10:18 AM
Message:

If she paid and is using the last month rent (it's a bit confusing if she paid it at move in or if you are "allowing" her to use her SD as her last month's rent - which I hope you aren't) then I'm not sure what to do. I would have the conversation with her about what's going on. You haven't had any issues with her previously - just "now".

I would also speak with an attorney.

Typically for me - when a tenant advises me that they are leaving (with or without proper notice) I ALWAYS follow up with a written letter of "we have received your notice...." and it basically states what we expect (clean-out, everything to do, contact us with any repairs that are needed, etc) as well as WHEN they are to be gone by. It then goes into what will HAPPEN if they don't.

NY is different than MA so you need to know your laws obviously but if it's a holdover situation in NY - your only recourse is to go to court for holdover. Judges DO like you to speak with your tenant (if you can and it's civil - obviously) and come up with a plan as much as possible.

Maybe she meant to go somewhere and that fell through and now she's struggling? Who knows - TALK with her. Find out what's going on. You could just be reading into something that just isn't there - OR you could be spot on and you need to get ahead of it as much as you can. --69.201.xx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 10:19 AM
Message:

She is not late on rent. JB ( OR) and JohnnyB (MA) understood what I was trying to relay.I know Steve ( MA) does too thatís why heís thinking three steps ahead of me to a holdover use and occupancy fee clause. Maybe I didnít word it right. She gave a 30 day notice and is using her last months deposit that she paid in advance at move-in. That covers February rent so I canít file for non payment because she is technically paid up through the end of February . She wants to know what happens if she just doesnít leave. She wants to know if she doesnít move out then can she pay for March and she will just no longer have a ď last months rent depositĒ because she used it. Not just NO .... He!! NO . I explained to her that by giving me the 30 day notice she has terminated the tenancy. She canít just reinstate it. Even if she gives me March rent and a new ď last months rentĒ deposit I do not want to accept the money because that will establish a tenancy. I need her gone. Iíve never had anyone try this before. I add things to my lease on a monthly basis because of this one. My lease didnít have a specific clause for what happens when a tenant gives a fake 30 day notice so they can use ď last months rentĒ deposit when itís not really their last month. It will now. Iím sure I wonít have a problem finding something else in there that applies. Iím having difficulty finding the right answers on this because everything is based on the LL terminating the tenancy, not the tenant. I think I am OK to refuse to accept money from her. --71.10.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 10:30 AM
Message:

Just wanted to clarify- she has never had any complaints about the actual apartment until now. Itís beautiful and newly renovated. She has been a PITA because she does not play well with others. --71.10.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 12:30 PM
Message:

Your first eviction? you will have to learn quickly the ABCs of the eviction process. Not acting on timely manner will cost you. --99.59.x.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jim In O C [CA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 12:54 PM
Message:

I make my rent one amount and the security deposit $100 more. That way months or years later itís harder for them to claim they paid first and last months rent . When they do try to use the security deposit for rent I file for evection on day four. That usually encourages them to pay that months rent Rather than risk an eviction on their record. --99.23.xxx.x




Holdover Tenant? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 3:09 PM
Message:

Rents Due, how do you normally handle it when the end of a tenants initial time period is approaching?

For my muiltis, I start with a 12 term rental agreement that converts to MTM after the initial term. 30-45 days before their end, I normally send them a termination notice of the existing agreement along with an offer of a new MTM tenancy with a fair increase in rent & any other changes that I want. Of course if it's a tenant that I have had issues with I make the new rent amount high enough to either compensate me for my troubles or high enough to make them decide to leave.

On my SFDs I do not have the conversion clause. Instead I send them a termination notice at least 30 days prior to the scheduled end date as required by MA law. At the same time I send them an offer of a new tenancy with a rent increase as well as any other terms that I want to change or add. If they are tenants that I would like to keep the increase is a fair one. If they are tenants that I would rather have gone, I make it an offer of a MTM tenancy with a substantial rent increase.

I have found that for me that units in multis work best with an initial 12 months then converting to MTM. Where as in SFDs I prefer to always have 12 terms with an early termination fee. --96.237.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 6:46 PM
Message:

When you learned all the problems with the unit you should bill in the next rent cycle, that could substantially raise the February rent, meaning the eviction could be filed for Feb for short rent.

--76.188.xxx.x




Holdover Tenant? (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 7:05 PM
Message:

Fred ( CA) , thank you for your input but, based on your response, I think that maybe I am not explaining it clearly. There wasn't anything to act on in a timely manner because she doesn't owe anything and hasn't violated anything....yet. I can't start an eviction before she owes money even though that's her plan. I am very frustrated that I can't act now. Steve ( MA) , I appreciate you more every day. All of my other move outs were MTMs who left after giving proper notice. It was all very neat and clean. Because they are MTM there isn't a specific end date so I never had to address the lease end. I have terminated MTM tenancies several times to raise rents as well as to get rid of problem tenants. I always got full compliance . I am familiar with the process when I initiate the termination. I do contact outgoing tenants a week before their last day to confirm things like forwarding address, utilities, etc. I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that there is nothing I can do about it until she stays past her paid month. --71.10.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2019 8:20 PM
Message:

I would stay in constant contact with her throughout the month. I would also let her know that if she stays beyond the end of the month (like she has hinted) that she will become a holdover at a substantially higher rental rate and you will be forced to file for an eviction, which is a terrible shame because you want to be able to provide a good reference (whether you do or not).

Unfortunately, once you are forced to file for an eviction her chances of finding a decent place to rent will be much more difficult. And let her know that it would be much better to move in with friends or family temporarily, if necessary, than to force your hand.

Provide her all the normal move out paperwork so she knows everything that is expected of her. Of course, MA has its own rules. Just make sure you follow them. Don't sweat this too much yet. She may just pack up and be out at the end of the month. If not, hopefully you have a substantial Security Deposit you can use as needed to help make you whole (or somewhat whole). --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2019 11:40 AM
Message:

Staying on constant contact is a bad idea for many reasons.

Filing for eviction doesn't make things more difficult for a departing tenant. --76.120.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jerry [MA]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 9:59 AM
Message:

RentsDue, it might be that your use of the words "last months deposit" is confusing things. Do you mean "last months rent?" Or do you mean a "security deposit?" A deposit is refundable, while rent is not.

If she paid last months rent, you need to wait until she is supposed to be out before doing anything. On the other hand, if it is a deposit, then she hasn't paid Feb rent and you can start the eviction process now. --71.233.xxx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 11:37 AM
Message:

Jeff (CO), I couldn't disagree more. with both of your statements. And my upfront questions about whether or not they have received a notice of eviction certainly helps me screen them out. --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 11:40 AM
Message:

Jerry (MA), yes, RentsDue's use of the term "last month's deposit" should simply be "last month's prepaid rent (or Last Month's Rent). The word "deposit" in there is confusing everyone but I understand what she is referring to. --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 5:58 PM
Message:

I wouldn't be too hasty to assume the worst. It's not always easy to time things right. Sometimes the new place a tenant finds isn't available right when their previous lease ends. And it's a little scary from their perspective to give the 30-day notice and then start worrying about what will happen if they can't find a new place in that 30-day window.

I'd do some "finding out."

"Miss PITA, you asked what would happen if you didn't move out when your lease terminates. Are you thinking you might not be able to move out on that date?" Then LISTEN. Maybe she changed her mind. Maybe she wants to buy a house. Maybe she's in a relationship and was planning to move in with him and then things went south. Or maybe she really is broke and is prolonging the inevitable. If she just needs flexibility as to move-out date, then you might be able to work something out where she pays extra holdover rent while you get it ready for the next tenant. I'd put some effort into finding out the situation, though. --204.210.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 6:04 PM
Message:

JB, either you only have one or two units, or you haven't been a landlord for for very long. It's great that you have the time and interest in staying in constant contact with a tenant, but that's a little strange.

Also, please explain how filing for eviction makes it hard for a tenant. I am very curious about that. Very. --76.120.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 6:16 PM
Message:

If more than 20 years as a LL and 15 units makes me as a newbie then I guess I am.

And I already answered your inquiry. Within my application/screening process I ask if they have ever been served with an eviction or asked to leave. I really don't understand your bewilderment. --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 6:36 PM
Message:

If you say so.

You stated: "Unfortunately, once you are forced to file for an eviction her chances of finding a decent place to rent will be much more difficult."

First, there is nothing "unfortunate" or "a terrible shame" about any of that for the landlord. (Very odd terms to use in this context, BTW). Second, I am not aware of the filing of an eviction showing up in a background check. That doesn't make sense as a filing is just that. There is no judgement entered.

Third, if you believe that most tenants would disclose that, I have a bridge for you.

--76.120.xx.xx




Holdover Tenant? (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 8:01 PM
Message:

I'm not sure if you're purposefully being obtuse or what. So this will be my last response.

When I wrote, "Unfortunately, once you are forced to file for an eviction her chances of finding a decent place to rent will be much more difficult" this was merely a ruse to use on the tenant to feign sympathy for how this could hurt her future housing attempts. I'm sorry for your confusion.

And I'm quite aware that their is a world of difference between merely filing for eviction and having it played out in the court system.

Finally, my application is clear that if they have provided false information on their application that they will automatically be turned down. My screening process is quite comprehensive. And if they should slip through, and get in and I later find out they lied, that I will be terminating the lease and they will be looking for a new place to live very quickly. --24.20.xxx.xxx




Holdover Tenant? (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2019 8:20 PM
Message:

Whatever you say, JB! --76.120.xx.xx



Click Here to send this discussion to a friend
Report discussion to Webmaster


Reply:
Subject: RE: Holdover Tenant?
Your Name:
Your State:

Message:
Holdover Tenant?
Would you like to be notified via email when somebody replies to this thread?
If so, you must include your valid email address here. Do not add your address more than once per thread/subject. By entering your email address here, you agree to receive notification from Mrlandlord.com every time anyone replies to "this" thread. You will receive response notifications for up to one week following the original post. Your email address will not be visible to readers.
Email Address: