Manager not Owner
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Manager not Owner (by Don [MO]) Feb 8, 2019 11:28 AM
       Manager not Owner (by cjl [NY]) Feb 8, 2019 11:41 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Nicole [PA]) Feb 8, 2019 11:56 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 8, 2019 12:15 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 8, 2019 12:22 PM
       Manager not Owner (by WMH [NC]) Feb 8, 2019 1:03 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 8, 2019 1:06 PM
       Manager not Owner (by GKARL [PA]) Feb 8, 2019 1:06 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 8, 2019 1:11 PM
       Manager not Owner (by WMH [NC]) Feb 8, 2019 1:24 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 8, 2019 1:34 PM
       Manager not Owner (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 8, 2019 3:15 PM
       Manager not Owner (by NE [PA]) Feb 8, 2019 3:43 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Robert J [CA]) Feb 8, 2019 3:45 PM
       Manager not Owner (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Feb 8, 2019 10:28 PM
       Manager not Owner (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Feb 8, 2019 10:30 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 9, 2019 2:22 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Dan [NY]) Feb 9, 2019 4:50 AM
       Manager not Owner (by NE [PA]) Feb 9, 2019 5:00 AM
       Manager not Owner (by myob [GA]) Feb 9, 2019 5:04 AM
       Manager not Owner (by elliot [RI]) Feb 9, 2019 6:37 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 9, 2019 8:40 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 9, 2019 8:46 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Feb 9, 2019 8:47 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 9, 2019 11:44 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 10, 2019 4:28 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 10, 2019 4:34 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 10, 2019 4:54 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 10, 2019 5:31 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Nicole [PA]) Feb 10, 2019 6:13 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 10, 2019 7:14 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 10, 2019 7:23 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 10, 2019 7:50 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Feb 10, 2019 8:11 PM
       Manager not Owner (by Jeffrey [VA]) Feb 11, 2019 3:58 AM
       Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Feb 11, 2019 5:27 AM
       Manager not Owner (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 11, 2019 9:26 AM

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Manager not Owner (by Don [MO]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 11:28 AM
Message:

I've seen advice that I should require that the T maintain Renter's Insurance naming me as Additional Insured. It seems like the OWNER should be listed there.

If I want to tell the T "I am the Manager Not the Owner", these two seem to conflict. Suggestions? --174.234.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by cjl [NY]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 11:41 AM
Message:

Good point --69.201.xx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 11:56 AM
Message:

on what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive !!! --72.70.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 12:15 PM
Message:

A lot of tenants do not understand in a natural disaster which can be a flood or fire there contents are not covered by the buildings insurance. Seen many times on tv when a tenant came home to find all the contents damaged where they were out of luck. Contents insurance protects tenants contents in the event of a natural disaster or break in and fire. --147.194.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 12:22 PM
Message:

I understand that. But if set up properly, the Renter's Insurance will also cover the LANDLORD for any liabilities created by the T. This allows the LL's insurance co to go after the renter's policy instead of raising the LL's premiums. --174.234.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:03 PM
Message:

But is the Landlord the OWNER or the MANAGER? --50.82.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:06 PM
Message:

Planning to use a LLC as the property mgmt co. My name will actually be on the deed.

My title in the LLC (as far ad the T is concerned) will be Tenant Relations Manager. --174.234.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:06 PM
Message:

I'm an advocate of "being the manager" while being the owner. I have no problems with it being known I'm the owner and I don't bother to hide it. If I get to the point where I can't do that effectively, I'll hire an actual manager.

But to answer your question, if you have an entity, you can still mask yourself personally. If you have XYZ LLC, that's the additional issued.

I'm in a situation where it's very difficult to pull off the manager not the owner deal. --64.121.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:11 PM
Message:

I was looking at that issue of liability caused by the T and thinking about who all would be listed as defendants when the "victim" decides to sue. I have to believe the owner would be included in that list.

So I'm having trouble reconciling the two together. The T needs to list me as additional insured but T doesn't know I a the owner.

Just wondering how those who list themselves as "manager" hsndle this. Do you just forgo being listed as additional insured? --174.234.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:24 PM
Message:

This being the Manager not the Owner is impossible in today's world in a small town. Property records are online and transparent. Unless you set up a shell game of multiple entities and pass-through and equity-stripping and live in another state or country, people can find out who owns the property.

Too much work for a few homes, a couple of cottages and some trailers. We have LLCs yes, and we do it carefully, but we can be found.

But you can SAY you are the Manager when asked. It's just that if sued, a GOOD attorney can find you. --50.82.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 1:34 PM
Message:

I understand all that. I'm only looking to shield myself from the T. I realize she can look online and find out but that will most likely happen if/when a legal matter comes up. At that point, I fully expect to be brought into it as owner.

If I were looking for more privacy than that, I'd have a structure that involves multiple layers of Trusts and LLCs. --174.234.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 3:15 PM
Message:

I with GKARL I really don't have a problem with them knowing I am the owner. --73.120.xx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 3:43 PM
Message:

Own it in an LLC. --50.107.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 3:45 PM
Message:

Many times a tenant with little savings and many obligations wishes to take unnecessary changes with my rental. Like getting a "Water Bed", a large aquarium or pet.

In these cases, not only should the tenant protect their furnishings but also protect the owner from damage. So when a tenant goes a head and foolishly buys a water bed (prohibited in the lease), I make the tenant add me on as an insured for liability (pet) or damage from the water bed.

I have evicted a tenant for having a water bed on the second story with kids and pets. The tenant would carry renters insurance for a month then let it expire. I demanded a annual paid policy that upon cancellation, i would be given notice. Any moment the bed could sustain damage and flood out the lower unit. --47.156.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 10:28 PM
Message:

Don,

Once purchased re-title the property to the Don Trust.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2019 10:30 PM
Message:

PS This is another way debt controls you. When I pay cash I can title it any way I want, free of banking rules.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 2:22 AM
Message:

This is a duplex that I will be owner occupying. It Will be half rental, half personal residence. I am also buying using FHA loan. --198.23.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Dan [NY]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 4:50 AM
Message:

In many parts of the country real estate is difficult to buy with cash. A handyman special will cost you 150-200k . An average home will cost you 300k depending on the area. A lot of cash for one property....ugh --68.192.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 5:00 AM
Message:

The gig is up in an owner occupant duplex. --50.107.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 5:04 AM
Message:

Used to own them but sold them to a Family Limited Partnership (FLP) I now work for that company. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 6:37 AM
Message:

In the world of free legal service, what's the difference does it make? At the eviction court, my tenant's free legal asked with a chuckle, why everything is in my personal name? My attorney answered her, "He is managing it himself, what's the difference?"

You get sued if you manage it.. The only time it makes any difference is, you have someone else manage it.. Even that, the property gets sued regardless..

From personal safety perspective, it does help shield your identity. Then again, landlord is a common terminology the tenant is accustomed to.. They call me landlord even with properties that don't have my name in the title.

Sometimes how you carry yourself is a dead giveaway, manager vs. owner..

--71.232.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 8:40 AM
Message:

It's terrible idea to be listed as an additional insured. --76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 8:46 AM
Message:

Jeff (CO): care to elaborate on that? --198.23.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 8:47 AM
Message:

If you want to claim to be the manager, be the manager and have the tenant put your name down as additionally insured. Most tenants don't have a clue how insurance works. They are very unlikely to ask.

I've heard that it is getting difficult to obtain a policy with the landlord as additionally insured or to get a notice of cancellation. Talk to your insurance agent before you get into a big tangle about it just in case you can't do it a anyway. --98.146.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2019 11:44 AM
Message:

"In the event of a lawsuit between the tenant and the property owner (both named insureds), the insurance company would have the obligation to defend both parties against each other and to pay any sums either might be obligated to pay each other. A renters insurance policy is not designed to handle this type of “co-mingled” defense and remuneration.

If the resident caused a fire, the owner could potentially be prohibited from tendering a claim against the renters policy for the liability to pay for the damage. This is based on the rationale that one insured cannot be liable to another insured on the policy. It would be the equivalent of a husband and wife who are both listed on the policy as insureds. The wife comes home to find the husband started a fire while trying to cook a meal. Do you think she would have any luck suing her husband?" --76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 4:28 PM
Message:

So the LLC owns it

You are just the manager

have the LLC listed as additional insured.

--72.23.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 4:34 PM
Message:

Again, having it named as additional insured is a very bad idea. I can't believe that people are still making this awful recommendation. --76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 4:54 PM
Message:

Jeff,

if this is such a bad idea, then why do bank do it?

They do it because they can collect....all they have to do is to show they were not involved in the act in which you will be collecting on.

If the husband burns the kitchen down, and both husband and wife are named, both will collect on the policy providing the act wasn't intentional.

Is it possible the husband will get sued for being an idiot? Sure - What did the wife do though?

I have had that grease fire occur before. Fry daddies at 3 AM are not a good appliance to operate after a night of drinking. The tenant feel asleep drunk and I received about $1,500. It replaced the counter top and did some clean up from the smoke. The reason why this was paid was because the specific actions of the resident that resulted in damage that was clearly not wear tear.

If I wasn't named, I guess the repairs would have happened? -Yeah from the security deposit. If instead of just damaging the property, if they caused enough damage that I would have been sued by other tenants, I would really want another layer of protection - their liability coverage. Think that won't happen? Just allow Kojo to live at your place when they bight someone else.

--72.23.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 5:31 PM
Message:

Banks have a financial interest in your property. Tenants do not. You can't compare the two.

I want to know if my tenant cancels their policy. You don't get that with additional isnured.

My landlord lawyer strong recommends against it being named as an additional insured.

Every insurance agent I have talked to recommends against it.

Many insurance companies won't allow it.

I want to be able to sue a tenant if they cause a loss.

--76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 6:13 PM
Message:

looking at one that just came that I haven't filed away yet. it says:

ADDITIONAL INTERESTS

COI interest only

Nicole Landlord

my home address

Anytown, PA --72.70.xxx.xxx




Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 7:14 PM
Message:

COI = Certificate of Insurance

My IRA was additional insured on a property and got paid along with the residents when a tree took out the roof of the house and their car.

In this case, I only owned the land and the house was their mobile home. You want cooperation, have the check made out to both parties.

When some one who is additional insured, they absolutely get informed about the termination or renewal of the policy. I sure hope you honestly believe your tenants actions can't hurt you.

I guess we will have to agree that we disagree.

I am sorry your insurance company doesn't think you have anything to loose Jeff and that your don't have insurable interest in a property. If there is ever risk of you getting sued at any your properties, you have insurable interest. I am not sure why your attorney doesn't think so, but maybe he is willing to defend you for free...If the need arises. --72.23.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 7:23 PM
Message:

Ray,

I am a pro who has been at this for over 20 years. I have millions of dollars worth of rental properties here. I know what I am doing. I go to my law firms's seminars, I have worked with many insurance agents, and have done a lot of research. It all comes down to the same thing: Being named as an addition insured as a landlord is a bad idea that can have very bad consequences.

An additional insured party will most likely NOT receive a notice if a tenant's policy is cancelled.

Honestly, this paragraph makes no sense whatsoever:

"I am sorry your insurance company doesn't think you have anything to loose Jeff and that your don't have insurable interest in a property. If there is ever risk of you getting sued at any your properties, you have insurable interest. I am not sure why your attorney doesn't think so, but maybe he is willing to defend you for free...If the need arises."

I take it you are new at this business.

You are welcome to do whatever you want, of course, but giving bad advice on this site is not a good thing.

--76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 7:50 PM
Message:

I'll have 30 in this summer.

For you to get a COI, you have to have financial interest in the property. If you need me to post a copy of the most recent notice of renewal for my residents I can. It happens - to me at least every two weeks but normally more often. We juggle over 90 residents.

I wish you the best of luck in your investment career. You truly believe your position, and I respect that. But when someone says something can't or doesn't happen - I would really wish they would get out of the way of those that are getting it done.

Can you please explain why your attorney believes that having a financial interest in the property, and having renters insurance on that property impedes the additional insured from suing? If the tenant has for example only $100,000 in liability coverage - that doesn't prevent a lawsuit from more than that from occurring. Dog bites can easily go up to over a million. You as the LL will be sued because you permitted them to have their ESA there at move in. As a LL you are perceived as the person with the deep pockets.

I am not hear to beat a dead horse, I do want to know what your attorney's thought process is and how they believe the best protection for operational risk management of assets. --72.23.xxx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2019 8:11 PM
Message:

I hate to say this, but your post doesn't make a lot of sense - at least to me. I don't understand what you are saying. And every two weeks? If I need you to post a copy? People getting out of the way so that things can get done??? Huh?

I never said that tenant having insurance impedes suing a tenant. I said it could if you are named as an additional insured.

First suggestion: Get rid of your insurance agent immediately. They are giving you terrible advice. Second, school yourself on the differences between additional insured and additional interest, as it seems that you are not aware of the differences.

--76.120.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2019 3:58 AM
Message:

Jeff is correct. Though this is a side note from the original question, it is an important distinction. In most cases, it is a much better idea for the rental property owner to be listed as an additional "interest" and and not a good idea for a property owner to be listed as an additional insured. --173.50.xx.xx




Manager not Owner (by Don I [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2019 5:27 AM
Message:

What does "interest" do diff from "insured"? --174.234.xxx.x




Manager not Owner (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2019 9:26 AM
Message:

Thank you Jeffrey for clarifying. --73.120.xx.xxx



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