oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Jan 14, 2019 11:27 AM|
oven or rent (by RichE [IL]) Jan 14, 2019 11:35 AM
oven or rent (by RichE [IL]) Jan 14, 2019 11:37 AM
oven or rent (by Robert Phaedra [NY]) Jan 14, 2019 11:40 AM
oven or rent (by S i d [MO]) Jan 14, 2019 11:43 AM
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Jan 14, 2019 12:00 PM
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Jan 14, 2019 12:17 PM
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Jan 14, 2019 12:21 PM
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Jan 14, 2019 12:23 PM
oven or rent (by RR78 [VA]) Jan 14, 2019 12:25 PM
oven or rent (by melinda [MD]) Jan 14, 2019 12:26 PM
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Jan 14, 2019 12:51 PM
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Jan 14, 2019 1:03 PM
oven or rent (by Robert Phaedra [NY]) Jan 14, 2019 1:04 PM
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Jan 14, 2019 1:54 PM
oven or rent (by Opinionated [NC]) Jan 14, 2019 2:19 PM
oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Jan 14, 2019 2:47 PM
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Jan 14, 2019 2:52 PM
oven or rent (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jan 14, 2019 2:58 PM
oven or rent (by Jerry [MA]) Jan 14, 2019 3:04 PM
oven or rent (by Vee [OH]) Jan 14, 2019 5:40 PM
oven or rent (by Nellie [ME]) Jan 14, 2019 6:00 PM
oven or rent (by Robert J [CA]) Jan 16, 2019 6:03 AM
oven or rent (by plenty [MO]) Jan 16, 2019 6:08 AM
oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Jan 16, 2019 7:51 AM
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Jan 16, 2019 9:19 AM
oven or rent (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jan 17, 2019 7:30 PM
oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 11:27 AM
This is a lugubrious tenant. The oven only works on Broil. It needs a new switch for the oven of the old stove, for $150. A "new" electric stove costs $275. The tenant hasn't paid Jan. rent due Jan. 5 and they cite the stove. The house was rented "As Is" by the previous tenant who knew the furnace was supplied by a propane dealer which refused to turn on the propane in lieu of a heft payment of $800 or more. Yes the deposit was transferred and this newer tenant was referred by the previous tenant.
So no rent. The oven isn't usable, and the furnace is locked in a dispute with the propane dealer who won't turn it on or move it. Comments please. I realize your thoughts will range. Thanks.
Should I not proceed with a notice since the rent has to be paid and no rent as been forthcoming; only broken promises? --64.129.xxx.x
oven or rent (by RichE [IL]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 11:35 AM
If you are the owner, then the previous tenant did not rent the property, you did. Give a pay or quit notice and proceed with eviction. --67.186.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by RichE [IL]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 11:37 AM
What does your lease say about who owns and is responsible for appliances? --67.186.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by Robert Phaedra [NY]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 11:40 AM
Post a 3 day notice immediately and follow through if no rent is paid. OR offer to void the lease with no penalty IF they are out by X date.
In the meantime, get the stove fixed. Or buy a new one.
If you do not provide heat as part of the rent, the propane is entirely the responsibility of the tenant. Not your fault they didn't investigate that cost before moving in. I hope your lease stipulates a minimum required temperature for the premises as mine does, you can evict on the grounds that they are not meeting that minimum, regardless of their rent status.
The worst thing you can do is nothing. Whatever you decide, get the oven fixed ASAP. No excuse for that. --161.11.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 11:43 AM
File eviction for unpaid rent today.
If you agreed to fix the stove in your lease, you fix the stove.
I have no idea on the furnace. Your set up is unlike anything I've ever dealt with. However, in my area even if a residence is uninhabitable due to a condition like no heat, the burden is on the tenant to provide written notice and follow a detailed process before withholding rent. This keeps frivolous "I didn't pay rent because you didn't fix my door knob" excuses out of the picture. But overall, I dunno. --173.20.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:00 PM
I do not know exactly what is the effect of labeling the rental "AS IS". I am sure that it does not excuse the owner from the details of state law which no doubt requires the landlord to maintain the premises in habitable condition. In CA, that would include provision of heat when required.
The National Building Code requires "all gas appliances to be in good operating condition", so LL is responsible for this lack of habitability of the stove too, despite any details of dispute with some long-gone propane dealer. Both habitability dilapidations are the responsibility of landlord and NOW!!!, and have nothing to do with any previous owner, tenant or fuel supplier.
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:17 PM
I had to look that word up!! You guys and gals are really educating me! I am thinking you mean previous LL. It sounds like eviction time but I would listen to more experienced opinions. I wonder if tenant broke the stove? I would fix the old stove since it has to be done anyway and then demand rent. Are you not responsible for providing heat by law? This could be a way for them to refuse to pay rent. It is not this tenants fault if the previous persons did not pay the propane company. Sounds like you inherit the problem and is up to you to fix. --73.120.xx.xxx
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:21 PM
dilapidations. Another big word again. I had to look that one up too. --73.120.xx.xxx
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:23 PM
NC law has retaliatory eviction.
oven or rent (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:25 PM
You get them a working stove. Your lease does not have to say you agree to fix the stove or the furnace. You are responsible.
Unless it actually states it is the tenants responsibility. You are responsible for what came with the house when the tenant moved in.
Does not make any difference what the previous tenant knew.
This is how a court would rule.
Now I am guessing a little on this next part. But I believe a court would also hold you liable for the past due propane bill. Then you collect from old tenant.
That is if there is not another option with a different propane company to supply the propane.
Court will say there is no way you can hold the new tenant responsible for the old tenants gas bill.
You have to provide a working furnace and normal/reasonable access to propane service.
Just like you could not get by with having renting a house with a natural gas furnace. When natural gas is not available in the area.
Your lease needed to address all of this. Now you are on the hook. And if the furnace was in the house when they looked at the place and moved in. But it is actually rented from the propane company. Then tenant pays for the actual propane gas and you pay for the furnace. Does not make any difference if you continue to rent the furnace or buy one. This is what a court would consider normal.
Best to work with the tenant and help get this solved. Maybe you could even get them to now agree to the furnace rental charge to say you some.
So work it out and get a new lease written and signed. Dont expect to win this one in court. --73.152.xx.xxx
oven or rent (by melinda [MD]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:26 PM
I would install a new stove. At that point the tenant cane pay the rent or you can evict him. --24.233.xxx.xx
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 12:51 PM
I’d get over pronto with a couple of oil-filled space heaters, a working stove. Today.
Previous tenants debt to propane supplier is now your debt, in my non-expert opinion. You should have taken that from previous tenants’ security deposit.
The next move I suggest you make is to find your local apartment association and join. Attend their next landlord training class.
Finally, sort out the heating issue. In North Carolina, heating is a whole different thing than up here, in the great dismal north ( no snow in Wisconsin this winter.) You might do just fine with electric heaters, depending on insulation of your house, and your location. Or, you might need that propane furnace. Either way, that past debt from past tenant is most likely on you, not current tenant.
In my city, water bills can go in tenant’s name, BUT, if the tenant doesn’t pay, the bill will eventually go onto property owner’s tax bill. So, I make sure I check up on my tenants, see that water bill is being paid. I then settle that final water bill out of security deposit. Next tenant comes along, I make DARN SURE they are starting out clean, no prior money owed on the water bill account.
All the worry about rent, yet the place has no oven, no heat? Criminey!
Btw, I have only single family homes, so I do not supply stove, fridge, microwave or laundry machines. If yours is single family, that might be a better way in the future. But for now, get on craigs’list, get to ReStore, get a stove, and the oil-filled space heaters over there pronto. --70.92.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 1:03 PM
Live Not On Evil, I didn’t mean to sound so harsh, but I get excited! You came to the right place with your questions. Lots of very knowledgeable, helpful landlords here, and a few people with big opinions, but, not as much knowledge, like ME.
Take care of your tenants, they’ll take care of you, is my motto. But, you have to extend a lot more care first, as they are not good with money, not wise about managing a house, not great at communicating. That’s WHY they are tenants. But, they will pay for your house over and over, if you can meet their needs.
oven or rent (by Robert Phaedra [NY]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 1:04 PM
It is not clear to me that the propane cost is from an unpaid bill. It seems to me that is what it costs to fill the tank. Which if the tenant is responsible to pay their own utilities, is on them. As long as the heat works when there is gas to supply it, not the landlord's problem. Fortunately where I have my units, the utility does not require old bills be paid before giving an account to a new tenant. As long as THEY are in good standing with the utility, no problem. And not mine either. The burden to pay rests solely with the account holder.
As for appliances, the lease should state who is responsible for them. Mine says that I supply a stove and refrigerator. If they break, it's on me to fix or replace. Lease also states that even if a unit comes with a washer and/or dryer, if they fail, I do not replace them. I never provided them and never did. Anything that is there when a tenant moves in was left from a previous tenant.
In this case, if the stove gets fixed and they still won't pay rent, give them x days to leave or you file for eviction. Follow the laws in your area. The tenant can't claim that they shouldn't be evicted because they can't afford to pay for propane, if it is indeed up to them to do so.
oven or rent (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 1:54 PM
Since NC has retaliatory eviction statute, you must determine IF you can evict if thats what you decide to do.
Best advice is to consult with a competent landlord/tenant attorney if you decide that you want to try to evict.
oven or rent (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 2:19 PM
Propane and oil require payment before use-- prepayment. Other heat sources are paid in arrears-- after they are used.
Propane and oil no longer work with tenants-- at least not for me. --66.44.xxx.xx
oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 2:47 PM
Tenant initiates procedure via a call, sets up an account and siphon gas from the tank that's actually ordered fr the previous tenant. Only the gas propane guys collect of a previous tenant who didn't settle up.
LL is not compelled to heat the premise as provided in the lease. I don't think. Space heaters and the fire place worked fine the last umpteen years.
She sees a parole officer monthly. I don't like that.
There's already a breakdown and I don't forsee anything constructive since much of this's personal. Ughh.
oven or rent (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 2:52 PM
The parole officer info makes a different story. --73.120.xx.xxx
oven or rent (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 2:58 PM
It is better before a tenant moves into a rental unit to check out the stove, fridge, electrical, lock, plumbing along with heating and hot water system to be sure everything works or repair before move in. Removing traps under kitchen and bathroom basin then cleaning avoids problems in future. Now the situation is much worse. Never accept a tenant who has arrears with utilities as rent and utilities go hand in hand. A thorough credit check on all adult applicants avoids this situation. Consider joining a landlords association where can advise on how to deal with the everyday operations of running rental units. Google to find landlords associations. Most jurisdictions if appliance is in a rental unit then it is rental housing providers responsibility to repair or replace appliance regardless of what the lease or written tenancy agreement states. Running rental units is not like putting funds into a investment where once the initial investment is made no additional funds are required. Fix or replace stove then make sure heating system works if propane is available. --147.194.xxx.xx
oven or rent (by Jerry [MA]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 3:04 PM
"LL is not compelled to heat the premise as provided in the lease ..."
It's not that you aren't providing the heat, it's that you aren't allowing the tenant to pay for their own heat. The fact that your previous tenant left owing the propane company some money doesn't matter. The tenant needs to be able to buy their own propane without having to pay off the previous tenant's bill. Current tenant isn't responsible for paying outstanding bill. You need to pay it and then sue the previous tenant. --71.233.xxx.xx
oven or rent (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 5:40 PM
Fix the unit or return the deposit, this unit is not yet ready to rent.
oven or rent (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2019 6:00 PM
You need to repair what is broken. Especially heat. No heat is something that should be fixed today. The range should be taken care of in a timely manner.
In Maine, If tenant has withheld rent due to maintenance it should be in an escrow account. --64.223.xxx.xxx
oven or rent (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2019 6:03 AM
The largest problem I've been having over the years is a New Tenant taking over the Lease of a long term leaving tenant. I have to treat this like a Brand New Tenancy. Why? Because in most rentals, a Tenants has RIGHTS to "condition", "warranty" and so on according to the Housing Authority.
So I make the new occupant/tenant sign a Move-In Check list and Condition of unit -- showing the condition. Then when the new tenant starts to complain:
a) the paint is looking tired
b) the flooring is starting to wear
c) the appliances are tired
d) the window treatment is starting to yellow
e) the water taste funny and isn't clear and fresh like bottled water
and so on.
I have to point out that a New Fresh Unit is going for $1,500 a month and a "tired" unit with some character under rent control is sometimes between $800 to $1200 -- a deep discount. Since they are saving over $5,000 a year on rent, they can put out a few bucks for upgrades. --47.156.xx.xx
oven or rent (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2019 6:08 AM
Upgrade electric and put in an electric stove. --99.203.xx.xxx
oven or rent (by livenotonevil [NC]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2019 7:51 AM
I am corrected in so many aspects and thank you for the constructive comments. The tenant appeared with 2/3 of the rent and wants to come back real soon with remainder. I am on the trail of a cook stove.
I have an on site grounds keeper adding an additional insular layer. When guys have this rental they go haywire, sell off items, bring in appliances, rewire appliances, sawdust the floors, switch out built ins it's truly a work in progress and exhilarating and then a tenant arrives that isn't interested in raiding construction sites, or Habitat expecting standard amenities and during a holiday period all lose track of the crucial demands. Thx again; what more? --64.129.xxx.x
oven or rent (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2019 9:19 AM
Win! Glad it’s going in the right direction.
Remember to look up your local landlording group too. Local landlords will know the ins and outs of your state laws, your weather, and are just plain good to hang with. --172.58.xxx.xx
oven or rent (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jan 17, 2019 7:30 PM
What does the lease say about who is responsible for the propane. You gave us a price for a new electric stove, are we suppose to assume that the current stove is electric or is it propane too?
It is typically the owners responsibility to make sure the heating system works but not always for the fuel source. --72.23.xxx.xx