Dear sir/madam:

Headache

When dealing with city new rules

Tenants shut off thermastat for saving money

Which cause pipe frozen and may cause flood

Is there any thermastat , which has fix at lease temperature setting and Tenants could not turn off and can only set temp above lease temperature?

Thx

Wow! Great idea if it exists!

"When dealing with city new rules", I'm curious about what this actually means? Could you explain it more?

If they actually turned off the power to the heating system by either switching the Tsat setting to off or flipping the emergency power switch to off, there isn't much you can do to prevent this.

However if they just turn the Tstat to a low setting there are a couple of things you could try.

Educate them so they understand that it's better to turn the heat down just a few degrees then to shut it off completely. Explain that if they turn it down too low that they'll use a lot of fuel to bring the apartment back up to a comfortable temperature. Also make sure they understand that any problems caused by their turning the heat down / off will be billed to them.

You could switch the Tsat to one that has a maximum low

setting of say 45-50 degrees.

Install lock boxes over Tsats.

Install Tsats that can be monitored from your phone.

Install a hidden Tsat that keeps the heat set to a minimum temperature no matter how low the tenant's Tsat is set.

Set up an alarm system that sends you a message if the temperature goes below a preset temperature.

There are numerous ways that you could try to minimizes the chances of a freeze up due to a Tsta being set too low but not much you can do to prevent actual sabotage.

If you have a unit that is susceptible to experiencing frozen pipes this time of year I suggest that you give your tenants a list of things to do when the weather gets cold. include things like;

do not set Tstat below 55 degrees

open cabinet doors below bath & kitchen sinks

remove window AC units

close & lock all window sash & entry doors

make sure heat registers & baseboard heat aren't blocked

make sure propane or oil tanks have fuel

If the heat does go out letting the water run at a trickle in the faucets will help prevent freeze ups

As a LL you should have already sealed up your building to help prevent the entry of cold air thru the foundation & building by air sealing, caulking, insulating, weather stripping doors & windows, etc. FYI MA has numerous programs that help LLs, tenants & SFD owners make their house energy efficient. Most of these are offered at a very low cost.

I believe this is what you’re after:

//m.youtube.com/watch?v=MnLSgfZqu4k

If the pipe is frozen, shut the water off when you defrost, or be on the lookout. Then you will notice any broken pipes and water leaks and be able to deal with it before it "may cause flood". That's why I want to know about any frozen pipe immediately. To get there fast, defrost it, and mitigate any further damage.

What is "city new rules" that you are dealing with in this case? What rules has the city put in that the tenant turned off the Tstat? Although cold out, it hasn't been that cold here that pipes would freeze quickly? How long was the Tstat off and where was the tenant that they were not cold. You should have your pipes protected and insulated as much as possible from and drafts, leaks etc. If this is a new tenant or a new building to you, go find those areas that are vulnerable and take care of them.

Yes, there are thermostats that can be limited, both on the upper and lower ends. HOWEVER, if the tenant fiddles with it enough, they might screw the programming up, so it wouldn’t click on. OR, tenant might simply walk to the basement and flip the power switch on the side of the furnace. Or, walk over to the electrical panel and flip the circuit breaker for the furnace off.

So, attempts to make tenant do what you want just by means of a device, can be over-ridden. Better to offer tenant training as to why they should leave the furnace on all winter.

I wrote up a large packet of info for my tenants about heating issues, sent it with a couple of packages of mint tea. Got good feedback from my tenants.

There are lots of articles on the web about heating. Maybe print a simple one out, drop it off with a cute mug and couple of bags of tea. Keep your tone friendly, light, you are trying to help them best stay warm affordable.

Also, insulate all of your pipes. If redoing any plumbing , make sure it’s insulated.

And, remember how kitchen cabinets had three horizontal lines on the panel right below the sink? That was to let warm air into the cabinet with the pipes on an outside wall. I ADD this opening to the cabinets if it isn’t there.

And, any time any repairs, improvements are being done to the property, think of how it can be made more energy-efficient. One of my city’s electrical inspectors was known for failing electrical work if wiring not caulked as it passed through floors, definitely if wiring passed through to the outside.

Dear all

It is really not useful to train tenants

They do not care no matter each winter how I warm them by text , verbally , written to remind them

They just want to save bill

And if they are not there

They just shut off thermalstat or set temperature as low as possible

I am sick to repeat text them , call them and email them

Even they are long term Tenant’s

If the heating bill is from their pocket

They do not care whether frozen or not

This is why I ask you

Training takes consideration, patience. I have always found training to be worth it, but, I worked in special education for many years. Yes, it is a slow process. Not for everyone though. Some people don’t have the patience for slow results, and that’s OK. You have to work with your skill set. So, ignore the training advice for now. (Well, ...I never give up . Too stubborn. So, I suggest you keep a slow, steady training process going, don’t expect any quick results. Maybe a few people will catch on. Did I mention I am really stubborn, I never give up when it comes to training? *grin*)

Focus on getting the thermostat which cannot be turned off, AND on insulating, weather-stripping.

You just add a second t-stat behind the wall set for 45, only side effect is it a/c goes that lo the heat will come on.

If it is not in your lease, you need to add it.. maintain a minimum 55F is in my lease(my attorney's).. Let the pipe freeze and bill them if it is deemed their fault..

Dear Sir/madam:

at last, frozen pipes break and cause flood which damage two bedrooms and downstairs unit. really make upset.

each year, I send them many texts to warn them during winter times, really not useful. Any repair cost , can I charge him deposit?

thanks

The question isn’t so much , ‘can you deduct’ as can you PROVE to a judge the tenants kept heat off? How can you PROVE to a judge that unit wasn’t kept above 55 degrees? How can you PROVE to a judge the pipes burst from lack of heat, rather than poor insulation in the walls?

I would spend time researching ways to keep plumbing warm enough WITHOUT relying on tenant’s cooperation. For instance, what if tenant goes away for a long weekend, maybe to an out of state wedding or something, leaves the heat set at 68. No problem, right? What if the furnace goes out? Or, there is a major storm, and downed power lines?

Most houses, IF, doors and windows aren’t being opened and closed, SHOULD BE ABLE to survive a couple of days with no heat without damage to the pipes, IF plumbing layout is well thought out, house is insulated and weatherized.

My thoughts on landlording is tenants will do what tenants will do. Yes, I can train, but that is a slow, slow process. My job is to make the house tough enough to handle what tenants will do. And, charge rent accordingly.

We had pipes burst in our first home, in Colorado. We were home at the time, with our two very young children, so, I can tell you, it was NOT for lack of heat. The pipes went through an outside wall in a lower level bathroom (tri-level house.) The temperature dropped very rapidly, as it often does when air moves over mountains.

When my husband took the wall apart, he saw there wasn’t very good insulation. He made sure he put it back together with great insulation. AND, most importantly, he was able to reroute the pipes through an INSIDE wall. Colorado is known for rapid weather changes. I believe, in that instance, there was 80 degree Fahrenheit drop in less than 24 hours.

So, I have first-hand knowledge that pipes CAN freeze, even if tenant does everything the landlord asked. Maybe the judges in your area know this, maybe they don’t. In MY state, if landlord improperly deducts from security deposit, there can be large fines.

So, the question is, ‘Do you feel lucky?’

Dear Busy:

I have all the texts that :

1. I asked tenants to keep temp above 60

2. the tenant told me that he shut off heating to save money

3. and after that, the tenant tried to work with me for the problems

all the texts include all information the tenant admitted what he has done.

thanks

Year after year? Get rid of the tenant or raise the rent, include the heat and put tstat behind locked cover. Your lease should say heat has to be maintained during heating season which should be spelled out in state law.