multi unit
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multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 7, 2018 4:23 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 7, 2018 5:09 PM
       multi unit (by Tim [IN]) Dec 7, 2018 5:25 PM
       multi unit (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 7, 2018 5:37 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 7, 2018 5:54 PM
       multi unit (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 7, 2018 6:43 PM
       multi unit (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 7, 2018 7:37 PM
       multi unit (by Still Learning [NH]) Dec 7, 2018 8:46 PM
       multi unit (by S i d [MO]) Dec 8, 2018 6:13 AM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 8, 2018 7:07 AM
       multi unit (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 8, 2018 9:32 AM
       multi unit (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Dec 8, 2018 12:08 PM
       multi unit (by Tim [IN]) Dec 8, 2018 3:04 PM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 8, 2018 4:07 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 8, 2018 4:28 PM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 8, 2018 4:33 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 8, 2018 5:46 PM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 8, 2018 6:23 PM
       multi unit (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 8, 2018 6:31 PM
       multi unit (by Rich [PA]) Dec 9, 2018 6:29 AM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 9, 2018 2:49 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 9, 2018 4:41 PM
       multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Dec 9, 2018 4:47 PM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 10, 2018 4:34 PM
       multi unit (by Deanna [TX]) Dec 10, 2018 5:39 PM
       multi unit (by Sandy [CO]) Dec 13, 2018 9:02 PM
       multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 14, 2018 4:22 PM


multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 4:23 PM
Message:

I noticed there are a lot of people on here with multi units. What are the pros and cons of having a multi unit over a single family home? Is a multi unit from duplex to apartments? Thank you for your input. --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 5:09 PM
Message:

There are a variety of opinions on this and several past discussion strings on this topic. I have 3 MFH's and one duplex. I like MFH's because of the following:

1) Here in eastern PA, MF apartments are at a rent price point where more people can afford them. That means more potential renters. SFH rents in my area are at least 40% to 50% more than apartment rent. A two bedroom apartment will run you about $ 800 whereas a 3/1 SFH is $ 1200.

2) I think you can manage them more efficiently as you simply go to one place to deal with all units. That means one roof to replace, one plumbing system to deal with, one place to go for showings and etc.

3) You can force equity by raising the NOI. This means greater potential returns versus SFH. To me that's the single greatest difference and benefit of owning MFH above 5 units.

4) The smaller the unit, the easier it is to turnover. There's simply less physically to mess up. I find the idea of rehabbing an entire SFH after a tenant trashed it daunting.

There's no one way though. There are many people here who are quite successful with SFH. I did MFH so I could scale quickly having come late to the game.

--209.122.xx.xxx




multi unit (by Tim [IN]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 5:25 PM
Message:

Why own multis? One goes vacant, you have 3 others paying the bills. House goes vacant, 100% loss. Most houses take a 30 yr mortgage and struggle to cash flow at times. It's normal for a multi to pay itself off in 15 yes or less. Better % return.

Cons: have to deal with people in close quarters relations, dealing with commercial finance (hard to get a fixed loan) --166.137.xx.xx




multi unit (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 5:37 PM
Message:

Single family homes makes an investor equity while apartments is more geared towards making income.

Example: A home purchased 30 years ago now produces a monthly gross income of $2,400.

A five unit purchased around the same period now brings in a gross monthly rents of $6,000.

If your house tenant moves, you have no income while vacant. I f one tenant in a 5 units moves, the income goes down 20%.

--47.156.xx.xx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 5:54 PM
Message:

You can have a situation where tenants can vacant at once in a multi. I had 3 vacancies at the same time in my fourplex earlier this year. Income dropped by 75% in the dead of winter. I weathered the storm and took the opportunity to reposition that building. --172.56.xx.xx




multi unit (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 6:43 PM
Message:

I liked the multi four units I had because the cost of everything was spread out over four rents. They attracted single working people who could afford to pay and pay on time. Nearby is a capital city with state workers and I had great tenants from that pool. --73.248.xxx.xxx




multi unit (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 7:37 PM
Message:

Here most multi-residential buildings are owned by more experienced rental housing providers. The most important thing to do is to run thorough credit checks on all adult applicants where it is very important to screen out problem tenants who can cause problems in multi-residential building. Consider without exception joining a landlords association where Google to find a landlords association. Remember it is double edge sword which cuts both ways up and down. If well managed things can go very well if not things can go down quickly. When looking to buy a building get copies of all the utility bills, taxes, water, sewage charges. Never accept what is on a spread sheet as found many to much lower then reality. If want to go up faster then consider living in one of rental units then carefully manage the building. Always focus on lowering operating costs like more insulation, installing energy efficient boilers, hot water systems, led lighting, low flush toilets. As the gross income a building generates the higher selling price is. Installing a controlled entrance, security cameras makes a building easier to rent then keeps out a lot of problem people. Separating out all the heating, electric costs screens out problem tenants as unpaid utilities and unpaid rent go hand in hand together. Learning to do things like appliance repair, plumbing and renovations will save a considerable amount of money. Shopping at the Habitat restores for building materials, plumbing, electrical and appliances, paint along with other things there are considerable savings then the big box stores. Some major urban areas have a few different stores. Having a rental unit in decent condition for less is the key for expansion. --147.194.xxx.xx




multi unit (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2018 8:46 PM
Message:

Even with a vacancy or two, money is still coming in. Agree that they are smaller at turnover so less daunting. Dealing with various personalities can go ok or really bad. Multiple vacancies in the same building can be either difficult to find enough prospects or work to your advantage. Thus summer I could show an empty unit and one ripped apart being renovated at the same time which allowed the prospect to see what the finished product would look like. Timing and various rent amounts allowed me to place 3 groups based on timing and cost. --24.61.xxx.xx




multi unit (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 6:13 AM
Message:

I do not think the vacancy issue with quads vs multis that many cite is not a valid way to look at multi vs. SFH.

Break your numbers down by the per unit cost. Let's say investor A purchases a quad for $30K unit ($120K total) and investor B purchases a SFH for $30K. All units livable "as is". If either investor has a single vacancy in any of the quads or the SFH, there's a $30K unit cost that has no rent coming in to cover it: period.

Think of it like this: what if instead of buying one quad for $30K per unit, investor B bought 4 SFH's for $30K per unit? Investor A and B both have the same $ invested and are both suffering the loss of one unit's rent. There is no difference just because A owns a quad.

Vacancy is vacancy. Per unit cost gives a more accurate picture of what's really going on.

Now if you can purchase that quad for $20K-$25K per unit and still get the same rents as 4 SFHs, then great job!

The advantages I see with multi-fams are you usually have lower cost per unit for things like roofing, taxes, and insurance. For example, a quad I own costs me $1300 / year taxes and $1200 insurance. My average SFH costs $400 for taxes and $350-$425 insurance. When I reroofed the quad it cost $10,000. If I reroof a SFH, it's $4000.

So again the per unit cost is a better metric, I think.

On the other hand, I find a better quality and longer-staying tenant in my SFH's. They don't have to put up with the noise from next door/upstairs/downstairs. Plus there's a yard for the kids and pets. I can usually get better rent from a SFH, which helps offset the higher cost per unit. SFH mows their own yard too, whereas I have to hire someone to mow the multi.

A disadvantage of multis is your only exit strategy is to sell to another investor. There are a FEW owners who will live in one unit and rent out the rest. Investors are cheap and will low ball. With SFH, you can sell retail to an owner occupant with little trouble.

Bottom line: pencil the numbers on EVERY deal. --173.20.xxx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 7:07 AM
Message:

The market for MFH is so hot in my market that the only thing on the MLS are duplexes and SFH. There are more investors than supply and if the market remains choppy the demand will only accelerate. --172.58.xxx.xxx




multi unit (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 9:32 AM
Message:

I have a larger apartment complex in a HOT area of the city. I noticed that developers were building newer buildings on my block with lots of perks. Those buildings had a pool, guest parking spots, storage lockers, roof sun deck, mail room, central air conditioning, appliances, hardwood flooring and so on.

All of my tenants were interested in moving there once the building opened up. All of the landlords with older building on my block got scared. I didn't even bat an eye knowing that I offered a excellent product for a reasonable price.

I had all of my tenants on a 1 and 2 year lease. If my tenants signed a 2 year lease, they could avoid a rent increase. Since my building was under "rent control" my rents were priced under the market.

I explained to my tenants that the new building had a low move in special, but after six months they could raise the rent to market. My tenants said, "SO WHAT! We went all of those extras"!

I explained to my tenants they were paying around $2800 a month and could only be raised 3% a year. The new buildings starting rent was $3,250 for the first six months, then they could raise to market -- like $4,000 a month for this newer product.

Non of my tenants could afford to pay $4,000 a month. But when my first tenants lease expired, that tenant moved out. All of my other tenants waited to see what the newer building would raise the rent in six months. Six months later, that tenant went from $3,250 to $4,250. They wanted to move back into my building but I had no vacancy's. --47.156.xx.xx




multi unit (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 12:08 PM
Message:

Down side stuff to multis.

Landlord is respondible for snow and ice removal. My sfh do their own.

Tenants squabble like children about noise, pets, parking. They want the landlord to referee. That is an annoyance to deal with.

Multis are always in tenant neighborhoods. I buy my rental houses in owner occupied neighborhoods which protects property values and saves the annoyance of dealing with other landlord's problem tenants.

Any place I've lived, a duplex can't be had cheap enough to make it cash flow, but it doesn't compensate for that with appeciation --174.216.x.xxx




multi unit (by Tim [IN]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 3:04 PM
Message:

Sid has a good point on the cost per unit aspect. That is why multis always cash flow better.

This sounds funny, but I'm actually glad that multi have shorter tenancy and more turnover. Why? Tenant lives there three years, quick clean, re-rent at market rate. Two years later, moves out. Paint and flooring, re-rent again for higher rent. Repeat. A sfh... Tenant last 10 years, complete rehab, major expenses to bring back up to good condition. All the while, no income from another unit.

As for tenant relations, you learn how to mitigate it. Screening. Newsletter twice a year. Expectation listed in lease. If you ever have two renters constantly squabble, you talk to both at the same time and flip a coin. Loser leaves. Just simply having that talk with keep both in line. You will never flip the coin... --166.170.x.xx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 4:07 PM
Message:

Thank you all for the information. Sid,I love the way you broke that down and explained that. --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 4:28 PM
Message:

I've not had a situation where there's been a lot of squabbling to be honest. Even in the rooming house, there's not been a lot of this. Sure it pops up every now and then, but that's an exception to the rule.

Turnover in a multi is easier. Turnover in a room is even easier still. Simply not that much to mess up in a smaller space. --209.122.xx.xxx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 4:33 PM
Message:

Thank you GKARL(PA). What is a rooming house and how does that work? How many units or rooms in a rooming house? --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 5:46 PM
Message:

6X6

Do a search on rooming house here. You'll see several posts by me on the subject which will explain. --209.122.xx.xxx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 6:23 PM
Message:

Thank you. --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2018 6:31 PM
Message:

A rooming house is the most difficult to manage as you are dealing with the lower end of people who are mostly on social assistance along with may alcohol or drug problems. A multi-residential apartment complex attracts a better type of tenant is going to work along with less problems, drama. A lot depends on the type of construction. If a building has concrete block walls along concrete floors noise is less of problem. If a school is being sold where the school is no longer needed then converting out to residential apartments is very cost effective as there already concrete floors and walls which are more sound proof and fire proof. Costly at first but over the long run converting out rental units to individual heating along metering out electricity and water. That way the rent is lower along with that screens out tenants who unpaid utility bills as unpaid rent goes hand in hand together. --147.194.xxx.xx




multi unit (by Rich [PA]) Posted on: Dec 9, 2018 6:29 AM
Message:

Two other advantages of multis:

1) I have access to the common areas of my multi-unit buildings (basements, laundry areas, boiler and utility rooms, hallways, grounds) without having to give notice to the tenants. As a result, I can easily keep my thumb on the pulse of the building and the tenants' behavior.

2) Since I either pay for or personally maintain the grounds (grass cutting, snow removal, landscaping), I know these jobs are regularly maintained to a high standard. Having tenants responsible for these tasks is somewhat hit or miss. Exp: Many tenants do not have the same interest in weekly grass cutting and trimming if they are the ones doing it.

One other thing to consider when evaluating multi-units - my easiest building to maintain and manage is the four side-by-side townhouses. When tenants are not living on top or below each other, fewer problems occur.

--100.6.xxx.xxx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 9, 2018 2:49 PM
Message:

Thank you all for the examples and information. --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 9, 2018 4:41 PM
Message:

One last issue. Financing a MFH is generally easier as well. Getting one loan covering several units is more efficient than getting several loans for separate SFH's.

I also agree with Rich about access to common areas and being able to monitor things. Also, tenants will tell on each other as well. --209.122.xx.xxx




multi unit (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Dec 9, 2018 4:47 PM
Message:

"A rooming house is the most difficult to manage as you are dealing with the lower end of people who are mostly on social assistance along with may alcohol or drug problems."

I disagree with this. Most of the people in my place actually work. It really depends on the economics of the area. I believe there's a new class of tenants for rooming houses. These are working people priced out of apartments. In areas of the country where rents are cheaper, rooming house tenants will be criminals and folks with other issues. In areas where rents are relatively more expensive, rooming houses are a cheaper housing alternative. --209.122.xx.xxx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 10, 2018 4:34 PM
Message:

Thank you GKARL(PA) --73.120.xx.xxx




multi unit (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Dec 10, 2018 5:39 PM
Message:

I keep getting drawn towards MFH when the time comes to expand somewhere in a more urban market than where I currently live, maybe in the next five years. It would make more sense to go for a multi-- it's more efficient, having everything under one roof, or at least on one property.

However, the two things that concern me now, and which I'll have to come to grips with-- #1, mfh's in urban areas are susceptible to regulation that sfh's aren't. You need to live, or have a manager, within x distance of the property. You need to take a class about recognizing crime and knowing how to deal with criminals. You need to do this. You need to do that. You need occupancy permits, or filing fees, or whatever, to give the local bureaucrats their share. etc, etc, etc. I'm so used to operating in the Wild West-- I'm not used to taking bureaucrats into account.

#2, I'm worried about concentrating all of my risk under one roof, or at least on one property. If, Heaven forbid, I had a tenant go on a rampage at a sfh, it only affects the immediate neighbors--- but all of my other tenants don't know/don't care I had a bad apple, because they have nothing to connect them or bring them together so that they would talk. Whereas if there's a crisis at an apartment complex, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of nice, normal, happy people suddenly gave me their notice, and finding replacements for them would be difficult, because the property would be tainted as "the place where that thing happened". Or if a tenant leaves something unattended on a stove and there's a fire-- with sfh's, I'd just be out the one property while I recovered, but the smoke and fire damage may well affect 2, 4, 6, 8, however-many units... --96.46.xxx.xx




multi unit (by Sandy [CO]) Posted on: Dec 13, 2018 9:02 PM
Message:

SFR require less effort.

-Less turnover, tenants stay longer, so wear and tear (a lot of damage is done on move in & move out)

-Less grounds maintenance. Less snow shoveling. (All done by the tenant)

-Easier to get financing, lower cost entry point (smaller down payment)

Multi’s have their advantages too, it’s just about what you can finance and what will cash flow. The numbers are the best guide, along with a decent quality location

Also with SFR’s I would try to avoid HOA’s and most condos due to more layers of bureaucracy.

Good luck!.

--75.70.xx.xxx




multi unit (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 14, 2018 4:22 PM
Message:

Thank you all for your responses. --73.120.xx.xxx





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