How does being a LL and managing your properties / tenants compare to any other job you have had in your life?

To answer my own question here,...I have been self employed most of my adult life and being a LL and managing tenants is by far the 'easiest job' I have ever had compared to all other jobs I have had.

What about you ? Don't you just love this business ?

I used to work in hi-tech sales...I loved that job at first, as computers were so new and I was selling a great product - the best at the time so it was actually FUN. But over time my product was beaten to a pulp by Microsoft OUCH! Was very glad to leave that world for this one.

WMH,

Roy, I'm still employed while doing the rental biz. I like BOTH worlds.

Everything has Pros and Cons, so I make up my list...

W-2 job

Pro: steady income, paid time off, cheaper benefits bought in bulk (health insurance)

Cons: regular hours, on call off hours, limited upward potential (I've decided I am not "management" material)

Rentals

Pros: unlimited income/upward potential, "passive" mostly, "I'm the boss"

Cons: irregular income, 'surprise' issues, "I'm the boss" (wait, where have I seen that before?...*grins)

While I am working on building up rentals and hope to transition to FT REI eventually, it's good from a family perspective to have that steady paycheck now. And as you can tell, my W2 job is pretty flexible since I can hop over to read and post here during the day. I work our of my home, in my jeans and t-shirt. The coffee is good here vs. at the office, and I get to hug my kids on the way out the door to school and when they come home.

Sisco and I met up last night for coffee at the local Village Inn (think Denny's) and talked about my situation. We agreed that it's pretty sweet. What's the point busting my hump for 10 years to build an empire just so I can take more time off eventually? I've got a pretty good gig "as is." What does it take to get to the top of ones profession and stay there? Why would I slog thru 60-80 hour weeks when a 40-hour week is all I need?

I'm hoping by the time I turn 50 in about 7 years that I'll have the option to turn in my clock card for the final time. That's a metaphor, I don't clock in/out. (grins). My oldest two kids (twin boys) will be just about to graduate HS then, so we'll be primed for some awesome get-aways and extended school holidays. But until then, things are going pretty well.

I worked as a nurse for 38 years. The last part of my career was spent working three 12 hour shifts per week, so plenty of time off for other pursuits.

Rathdrum,

You did not say anything about being a landlady and how it compares to your nursing career. I would be a nut case if I had to work 3 -12 hour shifts for someone else.

Sid,

The bad part of LL is that my paycheck is dependent upon people who can't even balance their own checkbook. Every month, there is no certainty that I am going to be paid.

Landlords have to deal with some of the worst customers in the world. With any other business, if you get an obnoxious customer, at least that customer is going away in an hour or so.

Landlords get to deal with a court system that thinks it is perfectly fine for tenants to steal from landlords and destroy their property, and landlords must follow the law and the lease with great precision, but that tenants aren't expected to.

I have mentioned this before, but my "other" job can be pretty cool sometimes. If you heard on the news about the InSight lander that just landed on Mars on Monday, well I wrote a good bit of the software that controls that spacecraft. What a relief that it landed safely! I am currently working mission commanding for the OSIRIS-Rex spacecraft that will arrive at the Bennu asteroid next Monday after a 2+ year journey. After 18 - 24 months of daily surveying for a good landing spot, it will touch down on Bennu, collect a sample, put it in a capsule, then return to Earth and drop the capsule onto the Utah desert.

But, after many years, I am getting rather tired of the stress and pressure. My daughter (and her husband and 4 kids) live in Idaho, several hours south of Rathdrum. A few months ago, we were Skyping with our 5 year old grandson, who asked "Grandpa, are you coming to my house for my birthday?" That did it. We are both looking to junk our jobs here in Denver, and move to Eagle, ID to be closer to the grandkids (and our daughter, too, I guess). Not ready to go full time in landlording, but I will certainly look for a less stressful software job, and start collecting more properties up there.

Martin (CO)

This may be off-topic, but why are taxpayers paying billions of dollars to land spacecraft on Mars? Isn't there something more useful for those tax dollars (paying down debt maybe?) here on Earth?

Landing on the Moon was cool but that was just politics of getting there before the Russians. Are we still competing against the Russians for RE on Mars?

@Martin, cool beans! :) You're in Colorado-- were you by any chance involved in the aerospace engineering program at CU Boulder? Or are you strictly a software/programming guy, and it's just a coincidence you're in Denver? :)

We lived in Boulder for four years while my dad attended. His thing is space radiation analysis for ISS.

It's amazing the limits people put on themselves!!! We all know people in our family, friends and co-workers that put a limit on their own abilities.

We as landlords see it daily in many of our tenants self limiting. Is it taking the easy way out or just blinders are in place and they look at the glass half empty

In Martin of CO's world he looks at the world in opportunityies beyond earth and outer space there are endless opportunities. There has been billions spent on space exploration. Some of the money has been well spent and other money has been wasted. However if you don't take the risk you will NEVER know the rewards.

In Landording and or flipping business if you never take the RISK you will never know the rewards. It's a great business to be in and the rewards are the greatest.

I never had a regular job after I got out of the service. Always worked for myself. Not having a company provide benefits is a definite negative if you aren't making enough to provide your own. Many people in business for themselves either don't make enough to have benefits or forget to or do other things with the money (party, etc). Then, sometimes they wake up and get after it, so to speak. If they do, it usually works out if things go well (no major sick, no divorces, no kid problems). If you have problems, you may wind up broke after years of work.

However, some don't wind up broke.

I had 6 or 7 businesses over the years. Some did not work. Lost some in divorce, costing millions. But the thing is, keep after the dream.

The last one (construction) let me retire at 39. Sold it and retired.

When I did it, I could make about $10 per hour labor profit on each worker. It adds up. Plus general profit.

When I got going and finally built a reserve, I started investing in rentals and flips.

With the normal ups and downs, it's been a challenge and also fun.

Now I need less rentals to be satisfied. Only take ones that meet the criteria I have. To keep busy, I develop subdivisions and industrial property.

It's fun.

OFF topic answer: $810 Million.

How many earth jobs and how much contract work was created? Don't really give a hoot about Mars but it did create something here on earth.

Oregon Woodsmoke said, "The bad part of LL is that my paycheck is dependent upon people who can't even balance their own checkbook. Every month, there is no certainty that I am going to be paid.

I could not agree more. That is true, however, tenants are not the only deadbeats in the world. True story follows.

I spent 25 years as commercial photographer and many of my clients were RE developers (just like the Donald). On more than one occasion, I had to sue these deadbeat millionaires (in small claims court) just to get paid on a $1,500.00 photography invoice. These cheapskate RE developers would send their in-house corporate lawyers to small claims court thinking I would be scared of them and drop my case against their boss. I won every case, got judgments and when I was about to file a Lien on their skyscraper, is when they would finally pay me.

My knowledge of how small claims court works came long before I ever became a LL.

@Roy - I have to tell you that many people at my company would consider your post to be fighting words. For them, the government (the American taxpayers) can never spend enough on space. It is literally considered the Final Frontier, and one of the most important things that we can spend our money on is to boldly go where no man has gone before.

I'll admit that I am not quite as adamant in my opinion. I also sometimes question whether it is worth the money to invest in these interplanetary missions. They cost a lot of money. And sometimes they are complete failures. That said, we even learn things from the failures. And the government does fund many different things in this country, from arts to sports to science to music, etc, etc, etc. So if some of the money is going to space, I don't have a problem with it.

Martin (CO)

I have no problem with sending spacecraft to Mars or to the asteroid Bennu. My only concern here is who should pay for it?

Like Sid, I see pros and cons.

I was a finance exec for many years.

Pros:

Good steady income, benefits, challenging work, etc.

Cons:

Politics in the office, heavy workload, unreasonable demands at times

Now being a LL fits my life situation pretty well.

I've worked more than one job at a time most of my life. I did not get a college degree until I was in my 40s.

Some of my jobs:

Armstrong fishing cricket farm. Largest in the world.

Door to door salesman.

US Navy

Door to door milk delivery

Appliance repair business

HVAC business (as an employee and my own business)

International Paper...retired from that one...at 58.

Been LLing for 21 years. One of my favorites out of the above list.

Pros: I can increase my own pay. I can see the results of my work, typically on a daily basis. Once my systems are in place, there are few surprises. Pay goes up with inflation!

Cons: Surprises. Vacancies. Those late night calls. Tenant drama. Most of this can be mitigated with proper systems.

I was a museum curator, tech support, a secretary, a librarian. My career path had been leading into a PhD in paper conservation (preservation of historic documents), but I've accepted that will never happen.

Now, I substitute teach on occasion, just to keep myself looking good on paper, if I should ever want/need to go back into the 8-5. 99% of the time, though, I'm a SAHM to two boys (1st and 4th grade) and manage the rentals.

I'm not a data geek like many of my friends are, but my favorite part of the ll biz is the information side of things. Being able to manage projects. Pacing my budget to match my income/weather/obligations. Keeping an eye for what's for sale in my area, how much it sells for, how long it's been sitting, what's likely to come on the market in a few months. Finding out about problems and knowing who to rely on to fix them and making sure they have all the supplies necessary to do it. Communication. Screening. Showing. Managing people-- prospects, tenants, handyguys, etc.

That's where my weaknesses are as well. I've been middle management--- but I managed high achievers. I'm used to treating people under me like competent adults. You've got your job to do. Go do it. Let me know if you need help or suggestions or to discuss a problem-- but otherwise, I trust you to do your job. That's not the strata my tenants come from.

I'm also terrible with three-dimensional objects. I can buy three-dimensional objects, or I can research three-dimensional objects, or I can teach other people interesting trivia about about three-dimensional objects... but if you put a paintbrush or a screwdriver in my hand-- that's just not in my wheelhouse. :)

The nice thing about the old jobs was the routine. You arrive at work, you do your thing, you go home, you get paid. It was comfortable and predictable. The details would change, and of course there was drama, but I stayed out of it. In theory, there would have been good retirement plans that would have been a nice safety net-- but I left those jobs before I vested, and used that money to buy houses instead.

The bad thing was the pay (the most I ever earned was around $35k/year before taxes) and the lack of control. I got married and moved and tried to get a job in my museum field in my new city-- all the museums were building, not hiring. I got a job doing tech support-- I got laid off during the daughtkawm bust. I was a secretary-- my favorite ACM retired for the private sector, and I was lucky to be traded down to one of his directors, because my remaining ACM and I weren't compatible. I wanted to be a librarian instead of "just a secretary" and used my municipality's tuition reimbursement program to earn my MLS and volunteered evenings and weekends-- and was told straight to my face, "You do such great work for free; why would we ever hire you?" So when I was free to leave without penalty, I found a job that wanted me. It was a pay cut, but I got to do what I wanted to do-- and by the time I'd left, I'd risen a few notches in management and was earning about what I had been earning as a secretary. And then we started a family, and ll'ing has been wonderfully compatible with me being able to have the freedom to pay attention to the most important people in my life.

Good jobs can become bad jobs or no job overnight.

NEVER be so naive to believe it will last forever. Just ask those GM workers, or Sears, or Kmart, or or...

ALWAYS build a side income.

RE is sooo easy I pity folks who still work for someone else. I just want to shake them and say WAKE UP!! I make 12 times what my “good” job paid and only work a handful of hours per week and I’m not stressed under someone’s thumb. One rental house pays the health ins.

Keep your job but hustle your bustle until you are making double in RE. Then the job looks much different.

The first million is the hardest, gets easy after that.

More...

I crimge and bite my tongue when folks tell me they spend 40-60 hours per week building someone else’s dream then don’t have time to build their own.

A few hundred a month for health care, a few percent match on a 401k, 10 work days of vacation (it’s not 2 weeks because you already had the weekends off!), a canned ham at Christmas...letting THEM control your family - when you can take time off with the kids, how big a house, does your wife have to work to pay the bills...

Break free! It only takes about 1% more effort than you’re already doing!

BRAD

PS

Way to go Brad20K,...you tell em' !!!

'There is no such thing as a steady paycheck',...a classic statement from a person that has been there.

Well, I've been a self employed CPA for about 32 years so I've spent the vast majority of my career in my own business. Getting involved with real estate is easy as I control my own time. I have no boss to check with if I gotta take off and do something.

GKARL,

Since you are a CPA, can you re-fresh my memory on what Passive Income really means? All I know is that I don't have to pay 15% S.S. taxes on Passive Income.

Roy,

It impossible to fully describe FREEDOM!!! to someone who jas never been free. It’s like trying to explain the color blue in the sky.

Those who are free know what I mean

Gkarl,

Getting the right properties is just half of the equation. Getting good tenants for those properties is the other half.

Now that your rooming house is up and running, how labor intensive is it in managing those tenants?

Roy:

Yes, getting the right tenants is huge.

My biggest issue right now is time. All properties combined had some issues this week which took a lot of time. The rooming house isn't that labor intensive as far as tenant management is concerned as I'm very careful who I let in there. The biggest problem I've had with the rooming house is vacancies this year. I had a few long term tenants move out and had to replace them. Some of the replacements turned out to be short-termers which meant I had to replace them. I'm full again now hopefully with longer term tenants (I look for at least a 6 month tenancy). The most costly thing in a rooming house are vacancies. It takes no time to turn over a room. It does take time to find the right tenants.