Does any LL here who has at least 5 rental units, stay 100% full (no vacancies) for at least 12 months straight? It seems the more units I acquire, the most vacancies I seem to have.

I have heard from reputable LL sources that if your tenants never move,...then your rents are too low and/or way below market. Would anyone here agree with this?

Are the same houses coming open, or is it all over the place?

I have one house that turned over twice in 2018; a second house that had three different tenants in 2018; a third house that had three different tenants in 2018; a fourth house that had two different tenants in 2018; a fifth house that had two different tenants in 2018; a sixth house that had two tenants in 2018. So that's six houses, but way more than six groups of people coming-and-going. And for every house I have turning over, I have two houses that are minding their manners and being stable and just getting on with life... but I don't appreciate their stability, because they're invisible. All of my attention is on the turnovers, and trying to get stable people into them.

And they are fine--- until something odd happens that makes them not. Like, the guy was perfectly great... until he got fired from his job for picking racist fights at the factory. (There's a lot of black:Latino hostility, and it goes both ways.) Or the girl who suddenly went into a high-risk pregnancy and had to go on bedrest and they couldn't afford me without her paycheck. Or the young couple who got pregnant and wanted to move to a place that didn't have stairs. Or the guys who come from Mexico to work nine months on and three months off and wanted to pin down a place to come back to until they'd worked their way up to year-round status... except they were told to hold off for six months before coming back, and they didn't want to pay six months for an empty house.

I've been 100% full with paying tenants since July. Only exception is I picked up a new unit in August, and it took 2 weeks to renovate and another week to rent out.

I agree it gets harder to stay full once you get north of 10 units. I remember in my early years there were a couple where I went 100% all year long. Since breaking the 10 barrier, I've gotten down to 2% vacancy several times, but there's always ONE that ruins my record!

Shhhh! If you don't talk about it … maybe it will happen!

Just kidding. I (personally) have three properties with 5 doors and although I've had turnover I actually kind of lucked out (so far) that we haven't had a vacancy (but enough time when one would move and the other move in that I can clean and repair without any loss).

I have a 12-unit that has had 100% occupancy for 9 years straight! I have had not a single day vacant on all 12 units with the rare exception where someone paid a 1-month fee to leave early and that 1-month fee covered that partial month vacancy.

I show the units while the current tenant is still there, and they new tenant moves in 1 day after the old leaves on the last day of the month. I give them cleaning checklists and I work with them closely to be sure everything gets done including the required steam cleaning of the carpets.

The secret is to do credit checks and to be super selective to bring good people in. Good people will be happy to clean to get their entire security deposit back.

One two rare occasions over the last 10 years, I had to clean a little on the day the new tenant moved in, but it never happens otherwise.

Earlier this year, my fourplex had 3 out of 4 units vacant for 3 months right at the first of the year; two left on me and I asked one to leave. I had planned on getting rid of the one tenant, but was not expecting the other two to leave. One of them had been with me for 3 years. That was the first time I ever had that many vacancies at once in that building. I was just about to have another vacancy in the same building, but I forced the issue with the tenant and had her sign a lease committing to stay through March. So I know I'll have a vacancy coming up in the spring.

Rooming house has also had more turnover than when I first started. I've have some short termers and some long term tenants have moved out; one of whom is moving to another multi I have. There's another tenant in that same multi that I expect will be moving as they about to have a 3rd child and they're in a small two bedroom. I expect that they'll move once spring arrives.

Gosh where to start. Why in his lords name would I want 63 of the same tenants year after year? We get max rents and max move out. Yes we welcome both. We send out renewals, usually 6 a month sometimes 8-- why would I want all of them to leave or stay? We've got to rotate stock you might say. So each month each one is looked at-- who just moved in is safest-- who's been there longest-- won't be for long. Big head types gone. Nuisance increases on new tenants -- on 2 or 3 year tenants -- generous increase.

Skips and ELT-- when they don't pay the ELT fee are common and fact is makes us enough in garnishment to pay everyones salary In the office. We've got 5 mortgages left-- on those, just as an example, positive cash flow is 100.00 each-- 1200.00 year if nothing major breaks. Those same property's may have collection going back 4 or 5 or 6 years on 3 tenants- each paying 15% of there wages-- that's on top of the positive cash flow from current tenant.

I've mentioned in some posts the amount coming in monthly-- Wednesday we got 1 check from a garnishment-- guy worked as a welder in the new baseball stadium and skipped out when work there was done. Total bill rent and damages 7K. Welders make good money ya know- last check was 240.00. He's been paying over a year. No not bragging but can't fathom why a professional LL wants the same people for 32 years. Can't tell you how many times I've seen here in print-- yea they're leaving after X amount of years and now I have to fix up AND GET RENT BACK UP. GET IT BACK UP?-- YOU MISSED OUT FOR 32 YEARS.

How in the world do you keep a property updated with the same tenant even for 5 years? I cringe when I hear "I haven't had to do anything to the property since it's been the same person for 7+ years.

AND Roy I have 100% occupancy.

YES.

1. Average length of tenant stay is about 4 years, despite yearly increases on CA scale.

2. To get tenants that pay on time, choose tenants that pay bills on time.

3. When I do have tenants leave, I get rental filled before old tenant moves out, leaving me with vacancy of about 3-5 days to get property ready for new tenant.

I'm full right now, I had one vacancy in 2018.

I've been on this forum about eight, maybe nine years now. I've tried a lot of different things, some of them worked and some haven't . Some of them go by the wayside based on my experience and the fact that when I try to compare my actually seen results with the results of others here, either proclaimed or in fact true, sometimes they fall short.

So I let them go.

The miracle turnovers and the award winning occupancy rates are NOT ingredients in my business. After multiple attempts different ways, I have chalked it up to location and circumstance.

It used to stress me out. Now I expect it and put my energy into other stuff.

"miracle turnovers" & "award-winning occupancy rates"

High occupancy rates are a function of population density and housing availability. They have nothing to do with awards, miracles or even ego. My strategy has been to invest in properties in areas with high potential for maximum population increase and minimum land availability (yielding high occupancy, dramatic rent increases, good tenant pool, and ease of re-rental). After that, it was easy to work out procedures that, faithfully applied, to make these strategies work.

I rent 2 bedroom apartments. Painting to get ready for new tenant takes 1-2 days (touch up all dirty & scuff marks on walls. I have a good janitorial crew come in to clean to "sparkling clean throughout" standard (day 2 or 3). Good contact with tenants allows repairs at turnover-time to be kept to minimum. 3-5 days total turnover works every time.

Why are your results so different as to provoke such skepticism?

How long it takes to fill a vacancy should be part of the calculation to determine the worth of an investment in rental property. It is highly related to the potential for income growth and, as such, is an important factor in deciding whether to make the investment or not.

I invest where I live. Longer vacancies are part of what I expect. My return when occupied is fine. Exceptional on some. For example $850 cashflow a month after expenses on a $15,000 duplex is worth it to me. I'll take an extra month vacancy for that.

NE, High population influx and low land availability mean high rent increases. Consequently, in such a market, landlord can operate with high increases to existing tenants, and the ability to easily say, "If you don't like it ... Next".

In your rural and depressed market, you must operate in the opposite way: minimum rent increases (if at all), and going out of your way to keep a decent tenant. I have a seller's (landlord's) market, you have a buyer's (tenant's) market. I can readily tell a tenant to get lost. You must readily tell a tenant to please stay. I would operate to be the best landlord ever, so that your landlording practice is a saleable item. Keeping in close touch with your existing tenants will reveal if they want something more, and then give it to them.

When it gets to the point that its not worthwhile to be such a good landlord, then you should use the kitchen door.

We just purchased our 4th unit. In the process of renovating the unit. Not rushing it since I prefer to fill the unit in the spring. I have found better quality tenants move during the early Spring compared to winter. I try to do leases and stay away from the cold months in NY. If I start showing in February or March I would be fine eating a few months to structure future lease renewals.

Moshe, I'm not sure what you mean by "kitchen door", but if it means to get out, that won't be the case.

I raise rents when low, maintain units as needed. I won't seek out ways to improve units for people already in them (especially totally remodeled ones, that makes zero sense) and won't do any butt

Kissing either.

If they don't like it, next.

Anyway, getting back to Roy's original post, it's vacancy rate. It is a factor and it is a big factor for a reason. I figure between 15 and 20% vacancy rate and maintenance when I purchase the property. May not be what others do, but it works for me.

If you have a market with zero vacancy, like some of the hotter markets, I would strongly suggest still factoring in something for a vacancy rate, because you folks in those areas swing a lot harder than we do in these rural areas. We're pretty steady. Slow, but steady.

Now being proactive to manage those vacancy rates down to a lower percentage is where the difference comes in. I still do whatever I can to get them filled as fast as possible. I just don't get all worked up over it anymore. So if someone has one unit, they can expect maybe a month or year, maybe not, of Vacancy.

If someone in this area had 100 units and they told me that they have 10-15 open almost all the time, it would not shock me one bit. I would actually think that would sound about right.

Let's not forget about evictions too! :). And tenants paying ELT's and moving with 2 days notice or moving with no notice. That all contributes to vacancy. Anyone that says that stuff doesn't happen to them is full of....!

I don't have tenants moving with 2 days notice of no notice at all. I don't do evictions either. It doesn't happen to me.

I have 2.7% vacancy rate, not zero. and, my market doesn't swing. We're steady (steady UP).

But I hope your market works for you.

I think it depends on your market. I've been wanting to sell but won't do so until someone moves. Nobody ever seems to move. Had 32 places. I don't remember anyone moving in 2016. At the end of 2017 I finally had someone move but I didn't want to sell their house. So I moved a tenant from another's house I wanted to sell into that one and sold theirs.

Then in January the one house I had in North Carolina was coming open. A seven year tenant was buying a house. So I sold it.

Then in September a Florida a three year tenant bout a house so I sold theirs. In October another three year tenant both a house but the girlfriend he moved in wanted to stay so I screened her and she's the new tenant so no vacancy.

A nine year tenant is moving out the end of this month because she bought a house.

A four year tenant moved out in October but I sold her house to a nine year tenant who I knew was looking to buy so I sold him one.

I was going to sell the one he was leaving but a great former tenant contacted me and asked if I had any vacancies so he's renting that one.

When I think about it I don't have any tenants who have been with me for less than three years and several who I've had for well over five. Of the ones who have moved most moved because they bought their own houses.

I've grown tired of doing this but it's still pretty easy so until I hate it I'm still collecting rent.

I think it's our market though. I'm also guilty of not charging enough but when they've been with you for awhile they usually wind up under market eventually.

Two years ago I lost an eight year tenant to buying a house. Did some remodeling and rented it for $300 a month more. A year after she moved she was getting divorced and wanted to know if I wanted to buy her house and if she could rent from me again. I would have rented to her but I had nothing available.

Overall I'm very lucky but I seem to pick good ones too.

Roy - I finally reached a point where my 4 plex was pretty stable. When I had the bigger 12 plex I don't think I ever had a full month. The old revolving door, because I was playing with the wrong demographic for me.

Since I sold the 4 plex early last summer I have noticed that the cars in the lot are constantly changing. (I have to drive past the property to get to the gas station, I'm not stalking it... LOL)

I found that I:

a) try to work with tenants so that they will catch up with their rent within the month.

b) I'd rather a unit be vacant than to accept a sub-par tenant. I mean no one who can't keep a job, pay their bills and save a few bucks for a rainy day.

c) I run a full background check on every one living in a property 18 and older.

I had a vacancy this year for the first time in a long long time. It was a combination of time of year, type of house, neighborhood AND I was asking too much for rent for all of the above.

I lost 1/2 month rent :( BUT I did get $100 more per month than previous tenant so that will be paid for over time.

I have two upcoming vacancies (January) but I'm pretty sure I'll get those filled before they actually happen.

GKarl- I agree. I do have to side by side duplexes. I was worried about greater turnover there. But it hasn't been the case. I've had one since 2013. One side has been there the whole six years in December. Other side had a three year tenant and now has another who has been there almost three years.

The tenant that moved three years ago just contacted me wanting to rent again but I don't have anything available. I often get tenants wanting to come back. The second three year tenant moved originally from another duplex after nine years because their duplex was sold (I verified this). So I expect they will stay a long long time.

Another duplex I own I bought in 2016. Kept one tenant who had been there 10 years. He's still there. Almost 13 years now. The other side I rehabbed and that tenant so far has also stayed put. I wish the long time tenant had moved so I could rehab his side and raise the rent but he's a model tenant so I accept less rent from him and will get to it eventually.

I'll jump around a bit here.

Firstly, It has been a number of years where I've had no interest in buying more.

Sixty months have now passed where obvious trends changed. Prior to that I had shacks that turned over every year for ten years never missing a single month while having large rent increases. (In some cases doubling through that 120 plus month run).

Currently I have holes all over the place. ( I call my empties "holes" implying "in need of action").

It looks as if I were planning to retire or something there are so many holes. But really what is taking place is tougher screening plus, I'm culling the herd. I have chased out the worst apple three months in a row now. The people who are left are across the board the best teni.

Am I counting the loss of income? yes and no. I think I need to face facts and recognize that people don't necessarily want the rentals I have available. I'm in the process of making changes. I see 2019 as a great year ahead.

I'm willing to take slightly less rent for in exchange for less turnover, so a good long term tenant will almost always pay slightly less than a new one. I'll raise rent but not as steeply or quickly.

" Nonsense. Nobody runs like that. "

But we do.

If I have a tenant leave, I can get a new tenant before the old one vacates. I don't consider the few days turnaround to be a vacancy, especially since the increased rent for the new tenant more than compensates for the lost downtime rent.

Such a market has other attributes, too. It gives me a good choice (a very good choice) of tenants to avoid the slings & arrows that are so frequently posted here. It also allows me to take a more managerial attitude with tenants, and the tenants know that: that if I don't want to keep them, then they will have difficulty to find another place, and at who knows what price (yesterday's, today's, tomorrow's price).

Roy, We don't lose people to lower rents, we lose them due to life changes - divorce/splits, illness, job loss, going on disability so they move in with family.

So, our vacancies are based on the people, not the home. Some PEOPLE are stable and stay forever, some have life changes.

In MY market we stay pretty full but with lots of homes the odds are SOMEBODY is moving in or out at any time.

Yes. Methods for class A work also for class B.

But well-chosen investments have better potential along with less problems than not-so-well-chosen investments. Planning id good.

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