Lease contradiction
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Lease contradiction (by Robin [WI]) Sep 25, 2018 8:35 AM
       Lease contradiction (by Moshe [CA]) Sep 25, 2018 8:43 AM
       Lease contradiction (by JB [OR]) Sep 25, 2018 8:54 AM
       Lease contradiction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Sep 25, 2018 9:12 AM
       Lease contradiction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Sep 25, 2018 9:12 AM
       Lease contradiction (by fred [CA]) Sep 25, 2018 9:15 AM
       Lease contradiction (by Jason [VA]) Sep 25, 2018 9:17 AM
       Lease contradiction (by S i d [MO]) Sep 25, 2018 9:20 AM
       Lease contradiction (by S i d [MO]) Sep 25, 2018 9:23 AM
       Lease contradiction (by Vee [OH]) Sep 25, 2018 9:46 AM
       Lease contradiction (by myob [GA]) Sep 25, 2018 10:28 AM
       Lease contradiction (by Mike45 [NV]) Sep 25, 2018 11:10 AM
       Lease contradiction (by John... [MI]) Sep 25, 2018 11:13 AM
       Lease contradiction (by myob [GA]) Sep 25, 2018 1:54 PM
       Lease contradiction (by CGB [MI]) Sep 25, 2018 3:19 PM
       Lease contradiction (by John... [MI]) Sep 25, 2018 4:22 PM
       Lease contradiction (by Kat [WI]) Sep 25, 2018 10:21 PM
       Lease contradiction (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 26, 2018 11:51 AM


Lease contradiction (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 8:35 AM
Message:

I have a tenant breaking her lease and moving out early. She gave her 30-day notice on Sept. 7.

She thinks this gives her until Oct. 7 to move out. My lease states that 30-day notice is required for early lease break. It also states that rent is for full months only, which means she'd be responsible for October rent as well. She thinks that since she has paid the early termination fee, she should only have to pay rent through Oct. 7.

I can see how the lease could be read either way. Should the ELT fee allow her to move out mid-month? What say ye? What do you think a judge would say? --204.210.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 8:43 AM
Message:

What does your state law say? It may be that your lease covenant is not binding.

--47.139.xx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 8:54 AM
Message:

If you got her to pay the ELT I wouldn't fight her on the move out to that extent. Just take the money and run. --24.20.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:12 AM
Message:

Robin,

We stick to the lease and treat everyone the same.

Another situation where being the manager makes it much easier to hold the res to the rules.

YOU are the one to interpret the lease. Few go to court.

BRAD --68.50.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:12 AM
Message:

Robin,

We stick to the lease and treat everyone the same.

Another situation where being the manager makes it much easier to hold the res to the rules.

YOU are the one to interpret the lease. Few go to court.

BRAD --68.50.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by fred [CA]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:15 AM
Message:

In CA, tenants can give a 30 day notice of moving out ANY day of the month, regardless what day of the month is rent due day.

As far as proration, you need to ask a local T-LL lawyer. --99.59.x.xxx




Lease contradiction (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:17 AM
Message:

With me, this would come down to whether or not they were a PITA during their tenancy. If they didn’t have any issues and returned the unit in show condition, then I’d happily take the fee and let them out.

On the flip side, if they were difficult tenants or if they left my place a mess, I’d follow the letter of my state’s law and charge for the full month’s rent and then bill for damages.

Whichever path you choose, use it as a lesson. Modify your lease so that this isn’t ambiguous next time.

--174.226.xx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:20 AM
Message:

In contract law, generally the interpretation of unclear language favors the opposite party from the one who wrote it. So in this case, any vagueness is your responsibility since you wrote the lease.

In the future, I suggest this revamp.

"If tenant wishes to exercise the early termination option, notice must be provided a MINIMUM of 30 days in advance of last day of the month in which the lease will no longer be in effect. For example, a tenant who wishes his/her lease to terminate the last day of September must give notice on or before September 1st. Notice given earlier than September first will still be considered as received on the 1st of the in which the tenant wishes the lease to terminate. Rent is for full months only and is due until the least terminates on the last day of the month, regardless of which day of the month the tenant vacates the premises."

By giving an example, there is no longer any question of interpretation. I've written several of my lease clauses this way.

As Moshe says, you might check the law if you haven't already to ensure this meets the standard of your State LL/T statutes. My guess is it probably does. Most states are not as "sophisticated" (i.e. coercive in limiting to parties exercising freedom to contract) as Cali.

--173.20.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:23 AM
Message:

"...last day of the month in which the lease will no longer be in effect."

Gee, I was a bit unclear there too. See what happens when I try to "wing it" vs. copy from my lease?

Anyway, try this...

"...last day of the month that will be the new ending month of the lease." --173.20.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 9:46 AM
Message:

No contradiction, OH is a 30 day state, early termination allows them to leave before lease expiration - periodic rental period goes 1st to 1st, treat the accounting statement correctly, if they give keys it will allow you to clean and show, but stat new lease 1st of next month. --76.188.xxx.xx




Lease contradiction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 10:28 AM
Message:

It's not proper notice-- and lets face it -- she and every other tenant tries to pull the same thing. Can't think of any US state that doesn't require 30 days notice "from the time rent is normally due/paid". We all know it-- and so do they.

So your answer is-- this is not proper notice. Its proper notice for the end of next month.

STOP babying them. STOP holding hands. The notice goes out that its not proper and on the first if rent not paid-- file your none payment with the court. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 11:10 AM
Message:

For me, a thirty day notice can be effective 30 days after it is given. Give me notice on the 23rd, and you can terminate on the 23rd. Prorating is easy, we all have calculators.

If a lease terminates on the last day of the month, I take possession on the first, which is often a busy day for me -- and is a day that I often get notified of non-emergency work needed by Tenants. Because the 1st is so busy, I might not be able to do my move-out photos and punch list for the rehab until the second or third. And then, my crew might be working on repair requests that were handed in with rent money on the first.

I actually prefer to get possession of a now-vacated unit in the middle of the month.

As Sid pointed out, any ambiguities are construed against the draftor - that is a ancient rule of contract interpretation, and is in effect in at least 49 states (who knows about LA?? -- they follow French law instead of British common law).

--71.222.xx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 11:13 AM
Message:

Just remember that most ELT clauses will probably get shot down in court anyhow -- so you don't want to go there with this. :)

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 1:54 PM
Message:

Mike45 our experience is they give notice and leave the 20th anyway. gives us 10 days on their dime. Our leases end last day of the month at noon.

We do sweeten the pot by advising tenants-- once you pay the full month-- if you return the property ASAP we will make every effort to re-rent and get the prorated rent collected from new tenant-- back to you. THE CARROT!

So we all know if they turn it over on the 20th-- we're in there working til the 28th or 29th but at least the home is ready for the 1st. WINNER WINNER chicken dinner. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 3:19 PM
Message:

John, why do you think most ELT fees will get shot down in court? If you are breaking a lease, you are breaking a contract. If the fee is documented in the lease and is not unreasonable, a judge who is enforcing the contract should award the fee. --2600:1702:1e30:...




Lease contradiction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 4:22 PM
Message:

We've discussed it here quite a bit before -- and Moshe had some good input. Basically, and ELT very often results in "double-dipping" when the place is re-rented. That isn't allowed in many states contrary to popular belief.

They work because they are rarely fought in court. Most of the people here -- as we've just seen in a recent post -- seem to be making up their own ELT clauses without a lawyer. They are often poorly written and too ambiguous.

Also, residential leases are very often looked at differently than just "a contractual agreement" by judges. You can't sign away certain rights no matter what the lease says. It often does not come down to just "Well, they signed it and it says this, so it is valid."

Again, I have an ELT clause too -- and I use it. But I wouldn't want to defend it in court. :)

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by Kat [WI]) Posted on: Sep 25, 2018 10:21 PM
Message:

Wisconsin is a full rental period state unlike California. So notice given on say Sept. 4th would mean the tenancy ends on Oct. 31. Notice given on Sept 29th would also mean tenancy ends on Oct. 31. --208.74.xxx.xxx




Lease contradiction (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 26, 2018 11:51 AM
Message:

I usually go by Ancient Keltic Law dating back to 100 BC which states if they want to move,Let them,They're going to move whether you like it or not..........charlie......................... --32.214.xxx.xx





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