What is your definition of a slumlord ? Do you respect them or just have contempt for them?

While working on my current rehab, I am having a rare opportunity to get better acquainted with one of the local slumlords who owns and operates over 300 rental properties in my town. (he owns 1/3 of the block where my house/garage apartment is located).

The biggest LL in our county is a slumlord. He is fabulously rich, but I don't envy him. I've never heard anyone speak a good word about him: laborers, renters, lawyers, RE agents, etc. No amount of money is worth having a bad name. Just my 2 cents.

Al my definition of slum lord is someone who can't make enough money to cover repairs cost. Sometime due to ignorance in business or rent control. You don't make it to use funds for fix up. The biggest slum lord enabler is the courts. They allow deadbeats to remain in property's they are not paying for. Months and month of no income is hard to recoup funds from that as shown many times on this site alone.

Gevans,

Slumlords here all have similar traits,...they have the lowest rents in town and they only rent to people who can't afford anymore than the lowest rents which is why their tenants never move out,..there is no other place for them to go. $350.00/month rent is what most slumlords get here and it is the same rent they were getting 20 years ago!

AL you know AL maybe your turning into one of those lords. I am thinking of 2 people who had to live for free 2K years ago in a barn to have their baby.

If there isn't low rent houseing where do you suppose a family can live? Not everyone works for IBM or Apple yea know?

Yes, we know one. He looks at the same properties we do LOL! But if he buys them instead of us, they never get fixed up, constant turnover, he's always in court...

On the flip side, the deferred maintenance on his places and the quality of his tenants make his places un-sellable. He has been trying to sell a triplex now for well over a year - we looked at it and just walked away. Ditto another place that we would actually LOVE to have: youth hostel, campground, great place in theory but the deferred maintenance makes it unfeasible. It's been for sale for a long time too. Normally any multi-unit around here goes overnight. Not if he owns it first.

myob,

I do not have contempt for slumlords,...they do provide housing for people with $1,000/month or less income. If slumlords did not exist (in any city) you would have a homeless population problem of epic proportions. Visit a 3rd world country and you will see proof of what I am talking about here.

I was probably a slumlord a few years back. The 1850s house on acres of land was on its last legs, I did little to fix it up, but collected rent from people who were willing to live there. Yes, I had to pick up the rent a couple of times a month, before they spent it on beer. lottery tickets and cigarettes. When something actually broke, it was the cheapest fix that I employed. They even fixed and painted some of the place.

Now the tenants were pretty happy, they had little interference from me, because I didn't care that much about the house itself. They had a few acres around them. They were long term, 12 years on one side and 17 on the other. I "worked" with them collecting the rent. And they didn't care much about the finer things that upscale tenants do. In fact, many years before I raised the rent to what made it worth my while to deal with them and they still stayed.

I did get tired of dealing with them, I knew the house was not rentable to someone else, and I knew my investment was really in the land that the house was on. Sold it a few years ago and now there is a nice expensive development on it. I did pretty well on that one, both collecting the rents and sale.

One tenant found a girlfriend that wanted more, so they used some low income government help to buy a place (not sure how long they will hold on to it) The other is back and forth between girlfriend and family. When we parted he did say he appreciated how we saved him from himself years ago. (never one of my objectives!)

I hear their names but haven't encountered one yet. I bought two of their houses - one for 8700.00 at at tax sale - fixed it up and it now rents at 680.00 per mo. And the other I just bought a few mo ago at 17900.00- just completed and signed a lease for 587.00. Both had good bones and in a C area. 1 got a new porch and both cleaned up very nicely. They both are simple but nice looking places. One tenant's been there 2 yrs and both parents work.I renew the lease again on Friday. The other.. well we'll find out.

"They don't have some of the nicer features of homes in nicer areas but they're clean and safe and maintained and have no mortgage." This is us.

I know several. They all have a lot of units and also, as stated above, have a business model. They all are successful. At this point in my life, I have no desire to work this way ... but it does work if you know what you're doing.

If you look on CL in my area, you should see some of the interior photos of places to rent... shock and amazement for those on herewith B & A places ...

Personally I don’t know any but I know some of their properties. Due to the housing shortage they do get high rents for homes I would never live in, Their yards stand out for lack of pride of ownership because if they hired a gardener that would cost money. The outsides have wood rot and pealing paint. Trash and junk litter their yards. The insides have different pieces of carpet and the paint color is Home Depot “OOP’S”. They try to never fix anything.

I had one next door. When his tenant moved out (evicted for non-payment), he would tell the next group that there was no deposit but they had to take the property as-is.

The way laws are changing along the west coast, the slumlords are putting themselves in danger of expensive lawsuits.

Then there is the issue of not being allowed to evict if the unit has habitability issues.

Yes, I know several. One is a notorious character whose name has appeared in the news paper multiple times and on the evening news a few times as well. Most fly under the radar, though. He's going down the tubes at the moment, but from what I hears it's mainly for not paying loans, not for code violations.

As others have said, there are sl*mlords who fill the market niche for the least desireable tenants. You know who I'm talking about: multiple evictions, can't hold a steady job, low and very erratic income. $761/month social security (non-garnisheable) is it. There's simply too much risk renting to these folks to fix up a place nicely if they turn around and trash it.

Slumlords may own slummy houses, but they're not dumb. Most are what I would call shrewd or canny.... they have street smarts. Keep in mind many sl*ms in the USA would be Class B housing in most 3rd world countries. Having running water, a toilet, and regular supply of electricity put you in the top 20% of the world in terms of housing.

Are their properties eye sores? Sure. Are they not always safe? Probably not. Are they up to code? Heh, right! All that said, they FILL A NICHE. And that, in my view, is why cities drag their feet closing them down. The alternative is a vast increase in homeless population. Everyone wants to trash talk sl*mlords, but if you press the question everyone also knows they need them, or the homeless will be camping in their back yard. So we tacitly approve them while faking righteous indignation.

Builders aren't building "affordable" starter homes in my town. Too little profit margin compared to nice homes. Even though my town is very low cost of living relative to most cities of the same size in other states, a new starter home starts at $120K and up. Your average family would need about $40K/year ($3,300 /month) income from a stable source and decent credit. Just those two criteria already reach well beyond what most of my Class C tenants have. Class D tenant? Nope, not a chance. So that leaves them with existing inventory, which land lords already own most of and which is in so-so/not so good hoods where it makes no sense to sink a lot of money.

I'm not a sl*mlords, nor do I wish to be one. "Safe, clean, and functional" is our business model. Most people with $1,800/month income can afford our houses. So we're half the going rate of the home buyer mentioned above. But I recognize the role they fill: they take the applicants I have to reject.

I am considered a slumlord by my City Housing Department Standards. Why? Because the City is crazy. Before buying an apartment complex I went to each city and county department to look up the property history, no negative things on file. I closed escrow.

A month later I got a notice in the mail that since I hadn't responded to a City Violation, my property is in REAP (Rent Escrow Account Program) and the tenants were to pay rents to the City. Those funds would be withheld until the City Counsel, a Tenant Advocacy Group and the City's General Manager confirm that I took care of the issue, take a mandatory landlord management class and put my slum-lording behind me.

The violation that put the property into REAP was an exterior light installed by a licensed electrician without a "separate permit". REAP violation have to be two (2) serious violations that put tenants in danger. An exterior motion sensor light helps tenants to see at night time.

The City put a lien on my property, got me to upgrade my tenants flooring, paint and appliances, had me pay fines, even though the City knew they made mistakes -- but there was not way to correct things until I complied with the original orders.

Even after I produced a $1850.00 electrical permit pulled by a previous owner to upgrade the electrical and install exterior lights.

So now when I'm viewed by many City employee's, I'm the landlord who checked, double checked, had a Certified Letter delivered to a previous landlord even though the day after I purchased the property updated 4 of the City Computer files showing the new owner information. I sued the City and they admitted they blow it -- but it's like a ball rolling down hill, it can't be stopped in motion!

The next time an inspector came out to the property to drum up tenant complaints, and was told by a tenant that their water flow was restricted! The City asked so what do the owner do? Well, as a licensed plumbing contractor I replaced the water main the next day and increased the volume by 100%. I caught an inspector asking stupid questions to my tenants so I told the inspector to leave my property. He called the police and said I scared him.

Interesting discussion Roy... Thank you for bringing it forward.

There is a place for them. We have a few. They do well. Not well enough for us to join them.

I hate slumlords I have one on my street with a couple properties and they drive me nuts. Always run down, need everything, etc. I'd love to buy them.

We all cant win the Landlord of the year award.

There's one guy I know of who's a slumlord. He has one house that's almost catty-corner to my primary residence, which I know had some gas leaks a few years ago. He left it to the tenants to take care of. Gas leaks aren't stuff you play around with-- and it's certainly not stuff you entrust to people on the lowest rung of the financial ladder.

One person who came to me was a current tenant of his. When I asked why she was moving, she explained how there was a hole in the living room floor, and possums were getting into the house.

He has about 25 properties at the moment, but due to the nature of his tenants, he does have frequent vacancies/turnover. He has his place in the ecosystem...

He also has a strategy. I had one prospect who was an illiterate school janitor apply with me. But she ended up staying with him, because he made her pay two months in advance-- and she couldn't afford to just leave a month's rent on the table, but also couldn't trust him to give her her unused money back at the accounting.

He's not my cup of tea. I once had a prospect; they had mentioned having lived with family on their app, but the grapevine told me they had rented from him for much of that time period. To get the truth, I gave him a call and asked to confirm that so-and-so had rented from him. He couldn't remember off the top of his head, and obviously didn't have any files to check. So he asked me, "Who told you that?" and I'm like, "I can't say, but it's what I heard." And then he's like, "Well, then I can't say, either." And he hung up on me. ;)

So, I suspect a lot of slumlords are very similar to the tenants they rent to--- but they just happen to have a bit more money. :)

There's another woman, whose houses I bought in a package deal a couple of years ago. The houses had originally belonged to her first husband, who passed away, and left her with about eight or nine properties she didn't know what to do with. She had been emerging from personal bankruptcy, she had medical issues, her new husband had medical issues. Neither of them knew how to run a landlord biz, and they got more and more depressed as trashy people trashed formerly-cute houses. They didn't set aside any money for maintenance or upkeep, they didn't know how to screen, and it just accumulated over the years into something unmanageable. Finally, the City started condemning her houses, and that was when she offloaded all but her primary residence and one cute rental that had a stable, rent-paying, little-old-lady tenant.

However, that cute rental with a stable, rent-paying tenant is now vacant, because she neglected to keep the roof in good repair. Branches rubbed a hole through it, and water started coming in through the dining room ceiling. Also, the facade is cut stone, and as time has passed, bits and pieces of the facade have fallen away, leaving behind just the wirework that used to support it. So what used to be a cute house is now becoming just as decrepit as her old houses... and she lost her stable, rent-paying, little-old-lady tenant who didn't want to continue living in a house where the landlady doesn't take care of things like "holes in the roof".

I had to skip the replies however I'll return.

I am.

Many neighbors here and there have stepped up to tell me how and what I should do. I would imagine they know best, as it were.

I can assure you when they don't see the changes they want, I'm dubbed a slumlord.

I value my teni's opinion more. If they were to refer to me as a slumlord I would take notice. They don't. Well one does but just cause we are friends.....as many of them are.

Had a friend who I'd call a slumlord. Owned several businesses, drove a mercedes, but was basically a junk man. His rentals were in disarray, always changing low life tenants. Always wheeling and dealing. Owned one of those buy on credit shed lots, and a thrift store and a bunch of mobiles for druggies.

He'd rent to anyone with a wad of cash, and had a guy who was about 6'4" and 320lbs who I think took my "desert and a shovel" tenant management program to heart, because he never seemed to have eviction problems. LOL

I do not like slumlords. Their properties breed blight and crime, and in my town they suck the money and life out of neighborhoods.

Roy, I tried your experiment a few years ago. My slumlord friend got me into it. We bought 3 mobiles and basically rented them as is to the first people who didn't have active warrants. The plan was to let them pay off my spouses student loan of about $29,000. I wouldn't say it was a disaster, but it was way more work than I'd hoped.

If the AC goes out, guess who they call. Nope, not their ac guy. They call the LL. And they know all the games. I dumped them in about 18 months, but made a small profit on the flips. But otherwise, nope, not worth it.

A slum lord is. It just someone who rents to the bottom rung. A slum lord takes income and let's the property decay around the tenants while they live in verim infested homes. Ceilings cave in, drain lines go, roofs remain unrepaired etc. The real a holes send workers into tenants Apts to smash things and make the tenant want to move out of rent controlled units. I looked at a section 8 list recently and 3 ll w the most code violations, and horrible reputations are on the list.

'A slum lord is. It just someone who rents to the bottom rung.'

All Section 8 tenants are the bottom rung,...does that makes all Section 8 LL's slumlords?

Remember the 2 LL's who wrote the book "The Section 8 Bible,...Vol. 1 & 2" ? If those 2 LL's were not slumlords, I do not know what is.

Smokowna has a good point. Some people just don't like how your rental looks, and label you a slumlord. Case in point - we have a sfh where we had several trees blow down in a March storm. They were promptly cleaned up, but the stumps remained until we got better weather.

When we were finally able, after a spring and summer of heavy rainfall, to have the ground dry out enough to get a truck on the property, we took down the remaining trees in the row. As we were working, again, cleaning up right away but not dealing with the stumps yet, a young boy walks up to me.

He asked what we planned to do with the stumps. I kindly asked him who sent him to ask. He pointed to his mother, who does not live near the property, but in the neighborhood. He said, "She thinks that those stumps look silly and wants them to be gone."

Still being nice, I said that I thought that they looked silly, too, but that we could only do so much at a time - then sent him across the street to safety so that he would be away from my hubby who was starting the chainsaw to chop up the branches. Those stumps are still in place until we start the new plantings - otherwise, every car and truck would drive on the side of the yard.

Roy - no. But we made about 10k on each one when we sold them and used that to pay it off. We could have just paid it before but we were hoping for a bail out from the student loan scandels that never came. My spouse was totally ripped off by the Art Institute. $29,000 in loans for one year. She could have attended Harvard for that!

Jeffrey,

I think we have discovered another round-table discussion topic here. Remind me next May and we will continue this discussion.

BTW, I do have a lot of respect for slumlords mainly because they serve a very worthwhile service to the community,...they keep millions of Americans from being homeless.

Over the years, I had have several Section 8 tenants (I have one now) and I still think they are bottom rung because if the Section 8 program ceased to exist (DT cuts off all Sec. 8 funding), these tenants would be living in housing projects or in homeless shelters. When all you can afford to pay in rent is $200.00/month or less, that is BOTTOM RUNG !

Let me tell you my slumlord story. The guy bought up everything in a 4 block radius. Fill it with low lifes and never took care of his properties. He was also a hoarder and filled his attics and basements with junk he took off the street. In one apt he even rented only half to this poor guy and blocked the 2nd egress so he could store all his trash treasures. He went around and collected his rents in cash. Well one night one of his lowlife tenants wanted money, maybe he gave it to them I don't know. But they hit him over the head, put him in the bathtub, poured gas over him and lit the house on fire and killed him.

Jeffrey,

One more thing, and I am not trying to throw rocks at you either, however, get Volume #2 of the Section 8 Bible and turn to Chapter 2 titled 'Playing Dirty'. Read it. They talk about removing a Section 8 tenant's power meter when the eviction judge does not rule in their favor. This is illegal in most states and it is the type of self-help eviction that only slumlords do.

-Ken (NY)