State Specific Question About: CALIFORNIA (CA)

LONG-WINDED! We have 1 SFH in Orange, CA and have always had College Student Roomate Tenants. 3 bdrm home w/FM rm used as 4th bdrm; we normally have 4 tenants; 1yr lease. Most stay 1 yr and some stay longer. Never had major issues w/tenants in 14 years we’ve been landlords.

We had 4 tenants that lease ended on 7/31/18 (started 7/31/17). But around July 2016 to July/Aug 2017 we had 4 tenants that although lease ended Aug 2017, 2 of those tenants stayed on and 2 left. Our lease states: "**DEPOSIT IS TO BE RETURNED ONLY WHEN THE HOUSE IS NO LONGER OCCUPIED BY ANY TENANT SIGNED ON LEASE. IF THERE ARE 2 OR MORE TENANT LIVING AT HOUSE, AND ONE TENANT MOVES OUT, IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CURRENT TENANTS THAT CONTINUE TO STAY AT THE HOUSE, OR THE NEW PROPOSED TENANT MOVING IN, TO RETURN ANY PORTION OF THE DEPOSIT TO THE TENANT MOVING OUT. IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LANDLORD UNLESS ALL TENANTS ON THE LEASE ARE LEAVING AT THE SAME TIME.**If any one tenant on signed lease decides to break the lease and move out prior to end of lease, it is the responsibility of the rest of tenants on lease to cover the rent in their absence."**

So, I guess 2 prior tenants were waiting on their sec dep return from 2017 which now one has inquired upon. Because the current 2017/2018 tenants have left, we had until 8/21/18 to return the Sec Dep. I started processing paperwork on 8/20/18, finalized paperwork on 8/21/18 and emailed the "point person" roommate, along with other roommates the itemized paperwork on 8/21/18. My 8/21/18 at 10:30pm email included "This returned money will come through to ___(point person tenant) via CHASE Quickpay by tomorrow Wed 8/22/18.” On 8/22/18 one of the tenants text me that the attachment I sent was wrong, had different name, excessive deductions, etc. I turns out I mistakenly sent the wrong attachment (sent one from a 2015 tenant). When I read that text at 8:40am, I re-sent email at 8:43am noting I emailed the incorrect attachment and will rectify today (8/22/18). 8/22/18 at 5pm (after I got home from work) I re-sent correct attachment and also the money sent via Chase quickpay, also at 5pm.

Now, one of the tenants (from 2016/2017) emailed me 8/22 at 8:30pm noted that the "Security Deposit Return is incorrectly dated as today is August 22nd. Since the list of deductions wasn't given to us within 21 days of the lease termination, we do expect the full security deposit returned. Let me know if this is going to be an issue."

I then contacted today (8/22 @ 10:40am) the just left 2017/2018 point person tenant (that I have been discussing that she'll be in charge of receiving Sec Dep Return monies and deductions and return/divide any due to past/current tenants). She is one of the one's that has stayed from 2016 to 2018. I emailed her..."I wanted to let you know that I started processing the paperwork for Security Deposit Return on 8/20/18 and then completed and sent to you on 8/21/18. Then I found out that I sent you the incorrect attachment and then rectified and sent correct sheet and money on 8/22/18. Can you tell me if all is good with this or if you are disputing any repairs, deductions from the detailed spreadsheet that I sent you? As we had discussed prior, you are the point person for this Security Deposit Return between all the roommates. Please let me know if this is approved or if you have any other questions." And her response today was "I’m happy to be the point person for paperwork. Since the correct Security Deposit Return was sent on August 22nd, we do expect the full $$$ returned. If this requires a dispute, we will proceed with it but my roommates will be involved just by the nature of the lease agreement."

Wow…we’ve been good, easy going, laid back landlords for 14 years for this 1 SFH. We’ve never had any major issues. And there has been no problems or disagreements with these tenants (the parents generally pay their rent) and this will be our 1st time someone is disputing the Sec Dep return. I understand I was considered 1 day late but will this be a problem if they take us to court? And the deduction was not that large…$2700 dep; $495 deduction; $2205 return. And, some side notes that might help our case..one of the current 2017/2018 tenants didn’t return her key until 8/17 and also picked up some other stuff she left (I was initially OK w/this since our new 2018/2019 tenants weren’t ready to move in yet).

I read many discussions via MLL.com and other sites and get great information. We use this site extensively to get help, etc. It’s been great! But now I need your help.

Thank you, AMT1242

Sorry...my argument was that I don't feel because I missed by one day that they should get the full amount. They should take the amount with the deductions.

And, because we are very nervous about having our potential first suit, I've been reviewing all our texts, emails, lease, etc and it turns out I had told them that the return would come about 3 weeks after move out and lease ends which would be around 8/21/18. I re-reviewed the lease and saw that the lease ends on 8/1/18 which means return should be 8/22/18.

I think that should clear things up.

You wrote: we had until 8/21/18 to return the Sec Dep.

And they didn't actually receive it until Aug 22? Correct?

Thanks byplenty. On my latest message it turns out I thought the return was to be on 8/21 because I believed the lease end date was 7/31, but it turns out their lease end date was 8/1. 21 days after that is 8/22/18. So I believe we are safe.

My mistake for being late and I never want to go through this feeling again. Not the same as rent being late...we have a 5 day grace period; I'm pretty sure we don't have that with Sec return. I just made a mistake. I'll try not to do that again. I know CA laws are really strict.

The lease ending date is irrelevant . The date you regain possession starts the clock tickling

2 tenants moved out before 8/1, 3rd tenant was "supposed" to move out on 8/1 but she text me on 8/17 that she grabbed the rest of her stuff and left the master door key & smoke alarm (which she accidentally packed with some other stuff) in the house. So did I regain possession on 8/17?

The 4th tenant is staying but we released her from lease and starting a new lease with 3 new tenants (2018/2019).

In California, two weeks before a tenant is going to move out, the landlord has to offer them a pre-move-out inspections. Where as you write up a list of deposit deductions and the amount you are going to charge them.

For example: you state you are charging $50 per room to shampoo the carpet. So the tenant can elect to rent a shampoo machine and clean the rooms themselves, for less money.

Then once the tenant is out, you have 21 days to deliver an itemized list of deductions. If the amount is over $100, you have to provide your receipts (copy okay).

Now if your lease requires the place to be empty before you refund the deposit to those who move out, and your property is a boarding house for students where as someone always stays over -- you have a major problem and defect with the way you run your business. You will not win in court. If you rent a room out and charge a deposit on that room. When that person moves out, you have to give them back their deposit, or amount being refunded within 21 days. Or you can be held liable for 3 times the amount.

Thanks for the info Robert.

I offered pre-move out inspection. No response. I did visit the house a couple of days before the 3rd/4th tenant was to move out on 8/1 and did a walk through and verbally discussed the cleaning, etc. that should be done or we would do it and charge them (gave them a rough estimate). Was not aware of any clogged tub drains until I was told by one of the other tenants around 8/3, we charged them for that.

We sent an itemized list of deductions on 8/22 and noted we have copy of receipts.

I guess now my main question is, if I didn’t get the keys returned and a smoke alarm (belongs to house) from 1 tenant until 8/17; is that the official date I regained possession of house and the date I can start the 21 days?

The lease states: SECURITY DEPOSITS: The total of the above deposits shall secure compliance with the terms and conditions of this agreement and shall be refunded to RESIDENT within 21 days after the premises have been completely vacated less any amount necessary to pay OWNER; a) any unpaid rent, b) cleaning costs, c) key replacement costs, d) cost for repair of damages to premises and/or common areas above ordinary wear and tear, and e) any other amount legally allowable under the terms of this agreement. A written accounting of said charges shall be presented to RESIDENT within __21_ days of move-out. If deposits do not cover such costs and damages, the RESIDENT shall immediately pay said additional costs for damages to OWNER.

And…we don’t rent out rooms, we have 1 lease with 4 tenant/roommates. JOINTLY AND SEVERALLY: The undersigned RESIDENTS are jointly and severally responsible and liable for all obligations under this agreement.

I once had a Washington State attorney tell me that juries will understand an honest mistake. This sounds to me like a very honest mistake, and one that you rectified as soon as you were alerted to the fact. I would let the students take me to court, but I am not in California.

That being said, I always try to return SDs and the SD accounting well before the deadline. Were your students law or pre-law perchance? If so, they may be itching to sue, but most likely they are "blowing smoke".

I'd send them the page of their lease with that clause highlighted and state, "The premises were not completely vacated until 8/17, when tenant #4 removed the last of her possessions and returned her key. Your security deposit accounting was returned on 8/22, five days later. The accounting that I provided is still valid." I suspect they'll back down.

Seek an advise of a LL-T lawyer on this one. Nobody here is qualified enough to advise you since we can't see the rental agreement you have.

Some CA judges will throw the book at you for being one day late, no matter what excuse you have, if found guilty.

I don't think the tenants or their parents will let this one slide.

Thank you Robin. Great idea!

Fred---thanks, I will take that under advisement.

And thanks to everyone else's responses. I will take this all into consideration and hopefully this will not turn ugly.

How much is the difference? $50, $100, $500? Maybe it is not worth the effort to quibble over a small amount. Call it a lesson we’ll learned and move on. Don’t make the mistake again.

How much is the difference? $50, $100, $500? Maybe it is not worth the effort to quibble over a small amount. Call it a lesson we’ll learned and move on. Don’t make the mistake again.

How much is the difference? $50, $100, $500? Maybe it is not worth the effort to quibble over a small amount. Call it a lesson we’ll learned and move on. Don’t make the mistake again.