Another Lockout!
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Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 10, 2018 8:57 PM
       Another Lockout! (by JB [OR]) Aug 10, 2018 9:53 PM
       Another Lockout! (by cjo'h [CT]) Aug 10, 2018 11:08 PM
       Another Lockout! (by gevans [SC]) Aug 11, 2018 3:43 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Vee [OH]) Aug 11, 2018 4:42 AM
       Another Lockout! (by NE [PA]) Aug 11, 2018 4:46 AM
       Another Lockout! (by myob [GA]) Aug 11, 2018 4:52 AM
       Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Aug 11, 2018 5:25 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 11, 2018 5:30 AM
       Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Aug 11, 2018 6:08 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 11, 2018 6:13 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Barb [MO]) Aug 11, 2018 6:24 AM
       Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Aug 11, 2018 6:26 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 11, 2018 6:48 AM
       Another Lockout! (by AllyM [NJ]) Aug 11, 2018 7:02 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 11, 2018 7:07 AM
       Another Lockout! (by CJ [MO]) Aug 11, 2018 11:58 AM
       Another Lockout! (by cjo'h [CT]) Aug 11, 2018 3:04 PM
       Another Lockout! (by Nicole [PA]) Aug 12, 2018 9:08 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 12, 2018 9:11 AM
       Another Lockout! (by NE [PA]) Aug 12, 2018 9:28 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 12, 2018 9:39 AM
       Another Lockout! (by RentsDue [MA]) Aug 12, 2018 11:52 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 12, 2018 11:57 AM
       Another Lockout! (by RentsDue [MA]) Aug 12, 2018 12:54 PM
       Another Lockout! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Aug 13, 2018 10:55 AM
       Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Aug 13, 2018 12:08 PM
       Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Aug 13, 2018 7:24 PM
       Another Lockout! (by Nicole [PA]) Aug 14, 2018 6:54 AM


Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2018 8:57 PM
Message:

I received an e-mail from a tenant at 7:30 tonight (MDT) from a tenant who, sadly, locked herself out. She's a nice lady, but I don't handle lockouts. Sure enough, she hired a locksmith. Well done!

After a bunch of lockouts earlier this year I sent the following e-mail to all tenants. Predictably, it hasn't helped. But hey, I tried! :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hello.

Getting home at 1:00 AM and realizing that your keys are somewhere else isn't a lot of fun. It's very inconvenient, to put it mildly. It can also be very expensive if you need to get a hotel room, hire a locksmith, re-key locks, etc.

Lost keys and lockouts have been happening fairly frequently, and it hasn't gone well for anyone. It's no longer something that we can assist with after 7 PM. We do not view lost keys as emergencies as they represent situations that were not caused by equipment that failed or by something that we did or didn't do. In other words, it's not our fault.

Sometimes even a locksmith won't be able to get you in.

Strongly recommended: Keep a backup set hidden in your car, placed in a lockbox, given to a friend, neighbor, etc. - or several of those options. It might help to actually visualize coming home and not being able to find your keys, and then following the solution that you implemented. Will your plan work?

If so, set it up for real. Some day you very might be glad you did.

Thanks." --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2018 9:53 PM
Message:

Very nice Jeff. I like it. --50.45.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2018 11:08 PM
Message:

In my lease,I have will take keys in case of a lockout during business hours ,it will cost $50.after 5pm it'll cost $100.00 haven't been called yet..........charlie........................ --32.214.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 3:43 AM
Message:

Deadbolt with a passage lock instead of an exterior door lock will solve 99 percent of lock outs. --98.122.x.xx




Another Lockout! (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 4:42 AM
Message:

Same as Gevans, you also need to describe the cost of getting replacement locks onto the master key system - this cost is 25bux per lock in my lease. --76.188.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 4:46 AM
Message:

Another vote for deadbolts only. --50.32.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 4:52 AM
Message:

we use bed and bath knobs for doors with deadbolt as main lock.

we also charge 85.00 to bring key or they can call locksmith at 95.00. --99.103.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 5:25 AM
Message:

There are three kinds of lockout; Stupid, Unfortunate and Unavoidable.

STUPID is the most common - I left my keys inside and closed the door behind me with the knob already locked. This is solved 100% by using passage sets and deadbolts and/or leaving a key in a lockbox or other secure location. There's no lapse in security. This is not a LL problem and the tenant pays.

UNFORTUNATE - I went out and lost my keys or had them stolen. This is solved by leaving a key in a lockbox or other secure location. There is a lapse in security and the locks will need to be rekeyed to maintain security (were the keys lost right outside the door or was there ID with the keys when they were stolen). Tenant may also need to consider canceling cards and the security of their vehicle. This is not a LL problem and the tenant pays.

UNAVOIDABLE, the rarest of them all. Lock failure happens and is unplanned. Locks are reliable, but doors/building can shift causing alignment issues; locks can fail or jam. This is cured by having another means of entry until the issue can be fixed. Routine lock maintenance is NEVER carried out per the manufacturer's specification and a tenant will NEVER tell you the lock is giving trouble until after the actual failure. This is a maintenance issue; LL pays unless failure is caused by tenant abuse.

Electronic pushbutton locks can also help, but are prone to failure, especially when the low battery warning is ignored. The Schlage version has the ability to store 19 different codes so I can keep a couple of spares pre-programmed for forgetful tenants and/or emergency access by contractors - codes can be changed in less than a minute. Battery life under normal circumstances (even with a quarter of the year in stupid-cold weather) is over 2 years.

If you want to get really fancy (and expensive) there are versions that connect to the internet, but this is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.

As a big fan of contingency plans, I use passage sets, basic electronic deadbolts and an alternate means of entry where possible with a key in a coded lockbox. As a locksmith I service, maintain and change batteries on all openings once a year, whether they need it or not.

I have never had a lockout that cannot be cured over the phone immediately and then be fixed 100% within 24 hours. --98.229.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 5:30 AM
Message:

(Sorry about the typos. I wish we could edit our posts).

Thanks, JB.

Deadbolts are illegal here (fire code) for good reason.

Also, why would I go to the unnecessary expense of re-keying 8 locks on four buildings?

--98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 6:08 AM
Message:

Jeff [CO] - Also, why would I go to the unnecessary expense of re-keying 8 locks on four buildings?

You might reconsider 'unnecessary' if a 'lost' key showed up in the hands of a criminal who then gains access to the building with no obvious means of illegal/unauthorised entry. With a properly structured key system in place, you only need to rekey locks that have been compromised by the missing key(s). Does the tenant really have access to four buildings?

Don't forget that the tenant pays to rectify a 'lost' key situation. It's not just a $2 key that was lost; the security of your building was compromised. Your tenant will forget who lost the key outside the front door if their big screen TV goes missing when they're at work.

Who will be held liable for a sexual assault if a perp gains entry with a key after a known compromised security situation? Whose insurance claim will be denied if your building is emptied and there is no sign of forced entry? --98.229.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 6:13 AM
Message:

Beelocks, the keys don't have the building or unit numbers. If someone finds a key on the street somewhere, so what?

"Does the tenant really have access to four buildings?" That question doesn't make sense. Of course they don't.

"Lost" keys or keys that are actually lost are handled the same: Not my problem.

You lost me with most of your post, to be honest.

--98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 6:24 AM
Message:

Deadbolts are illegal? On an individual unit?

The kind that have a turner on the inside and a lock on the outside? I’ve never heard of a place that made THAT illegal. I’ve heard of places that made keyed side both sides illegal, but not if the inside is a knob.

--64.251.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 6:26 AM
Message:

Imagine the scenario where a key is lost on immediately out side building, in the parking lot, 2 feet away from the door. Obviously, you don't know it was lost there because it's lost. Someone finding that key right there *may* try it in the nearest lock, just on the off-chance.

Imagine a key is stolen along with wallet/purse. The wallet contains an ID with an address. Lucky criminal may take a chance by going to the address and trying the key in the door.

In both cases security to one building is compromised and cannot be re-established by simply giving/selling the tenant a replacement key. There is no need to rekey 8 locks across 4 buildings, just the compromised locks.

Maybe these things don't happen in Colorado and that's fine.

Personally, I wouldn't take a chance with the kind of liability I described; I prefer the CYA mentality to the 'not my problem' attitude. --98.229.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 6:48 AM
Message:

Barb, that is correct. Deadbolts are illegal for main building access doors. Without breaker bars, occupants could be trapped in the building in the event of a fire.

Beelocks, I have great insurance, security cameras, and tenants are made aware of key policies.

I think you're over-thinking this.

Please cite a case in which a landlord was successful sued as the result of a tenant losing their keys. --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 7:02 AM
Message:

Two key deadbolts are illegal here on units. One key deadbolts are required. I use a plain knob only and a deadbolt. So they have their key when they leave. Losing their key is up to them. I would help the tenant at any hour of the day or night to get back into their unit. Otherwise they may break an expensive window or door. That's why it's called "work". --73.178.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 7:07 AM
Message:

Work and lockouts are two different things. I don't have the kind of tenants who would vandalize my buildings.

--98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by CJ [MO]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 11:58 AM
Message:

Double dead bolt that needs key to open from inside is illegal here --97.91.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2018 3:04 PM
Message:

I have 3 or 4 different keys for different neiighbours don't know which belongs to whom.but no one ever gets locked out.................charlie..............in my own house the grand children installed a keypad lockset,now I can't get locked out unless the memory goes.......................................................................what were we talking about,you sure?.................. --32.214.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 9:08 AM
Message:

My tenant pool would never call a locksmith.

Breaking in a door or window would be their way of handling it.

Had a guy many years ago who "helped me" by taking out the entire window frame ... so it was easy for me to fix when he told me about it the next morning !!! --72.70.xxx.x




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 9:11 AM
Message:

Nicole, I am guess that your properties are in a terrible area, you're not screening well, your security deposits are too low, you let your tenants run the show, your leases aren't well done, etc. --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 9:28 AM
Message:

Jeff, Nicole's one of the better landlords on here. --174.201.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 9:39 AM
Message:

NE, wow!!! --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 11:52 AM
Message:

Keyless entry on everything now. No lockouts. No keys to lose or to end up in the wrong hands. $25.00 to change the code on Sunday morning if the whiskey did too much talking on Saturday night. --71.10.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 11:57 AM
Message:

What keyless entry system do you use? I think I need to look into this. I can see using one for common area doors, but for each apartment that could be a bit pricey. --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2018 12:54 PM
Message:

Schlage. Use a 10 year battery. If your tenant outlasts the battery.... You win! --174.199.xx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Aug 13, 2018 10:55 AM
Message:

Beelocks:

Have you tried LockState wi-fi locks. They're internet-based and you can set or delete codes from the internet without visiting the lock. The only time you go to the lock is to change the battery. It even sends you an email when battery gets low. On the site you can set codes, issue commands, and monitor events. You can even setup temp codes or have codes expire. They also have common group access for common entry doors, etc. I have them in my home and love them.

The only issue with electronic locks is that they must line up perfectly without rubbing when operating deadbolt otherwise they'll break gears. Trouble like that occur when a heavily insulated door is unlatched. This can usually be remedied with a bigger deadbolt strikeplate hole. --108.69.xxx.xxx




Another Lockout! (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Aug 13, 2018 12:08 PM
Message:

Not lining up and breaking gears would be a problem - not an issue. --98.245.xx.xx




Another Lockout! (by beelocks [NH]) Posted on: Aug 13, 2018 7:24 PM
Message:

LOTF,

I tend to avoid the motor driven locks where possible.

Most of them have a failsafe built in where it detects when the boltwork is obstructed and will then retract the bolt, but this brings up other issues such as the door being unlocked when it really needs to be locked.

RentsDue,

If those 10 year batteries are lithium, be aware that it instantly negates any fire-rating certification on the door - it will probably never be an issue/problem [wink], just something to be aware of. --98.229.xxx.xx




Another Lockout! (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Aug 14, 2018 6:54 AM
Message:

Na, Jeff, you're so wrong. However, my properties are what they are. Lower end tenants and units operate on a different level than upper tier, no matter how you try to change them. I've tried for years and have learned to accommodate the sector of tenants I rent to. It's a balance ... tough some days but nothing wrong with it once you figure out your own tolerances.

I could take some of my places (not in terrible areas but in alleys). I could spruce them up so that Christina ElWhatever her name is on HGTV would love them ... but the folks who want those type places would not move in. I have places in the city school district (which is a terrible school) and places in adjoining suburban (much better schools) districts. Almost everyone with children who can will scrape and scrimp to move to the better schools and pay an extra $50, $100 or $150 a month... but the lifestyle they and their families lived forever won't change ... so my places in the alleys, on the busy streets, odd ball places serve them (and me) well. --72.70.xxx.x





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