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To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Jul 22, 2018 7:34 PM
       To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Jul 23, 2018 10:24 PM
       To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Jul 24, 2018 6:11 AM
       To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Jul 24, 2018 6:40 PM
       To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Jul 24, 2018 7:15 PM
       To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Jul 25, 2018 1:23 AM


To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jul 22, 2018 7:34 PM
Message:

Been thinking about your a/c problem, I took one apart today (I don't like working on Sunday anymore) and found 2 capillary tubes blocked after the piston orifice, tryed to blow reverse with a 1/2 inch airline just 12 feet from the coil - put it together and nearly the same results - my diagnosis is a whole new system installed properly including lineset with a drier filter as I have mentioned in the threads about the sealed system.

Did you ever get your to run with a 20 degree delta or better?

--76.188.xxx.xx




To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: Jul 23, 2018 10:24 PM
Message:

Hi Vee - thanks. I was going to post the "rest of the story." The short answer is "no." My AC guy came back with his assistant and after some phone calls to the manufacturer we are here:

My original system was a Trane. When the Trane went out the installers converted it to a Frankenstein system from R-22 to 410a. They installed an Amana 3 ton "14 SEER" outside unit and a new 410a evaporator. So now we have a part Trane and part Armana. Not exactly a match from heaven.

Fast forward to last Monday when the system quit. My AC guy replaced the capacitor and the system worked at about an 10-13 degree split as usual. We thought it might be a touch low on freon. I was thinking of adding like 1/4 lb, but he put in two pounds. THAT was why it wasn't cooling right the first day. We then removed the extra freon the next day and the system went back to 10-13 degree split and has been holding that since - it was 118 today and the house is 76 with the AC running about 50% of the time. We have a very well insulated house!

They further determined that it was converted improperly. The 14 SEER condenser requires a "TXV" valve, and this one has a "piston" type and they think that is why it isn't working right.

At this point the system needs to be opened, drained, and a new valve and other parts (drier) installed and then recharged and it should give a 16-22 split. Problem is the parts are $400 plus, and labor. So my guy suggested I try to get the original installer to fix it.

Well I called them last Thursday and of course they refuse to fix it since it's been two years. They don't care that it was just discovered. They want an $80 fee to just come look at their screw up. So I have written a letter to the licensee for the company and hoping they will agree to at least come look and make it right. If not I guess I will have to file a complaint with the contractor board and start a lawsuit. On my side is the manufacturer and my ac guy who's "day job" is the head of the HVAC program at the community college. Who do you think the judge is going to believe? The shady AC company or the college professor?

So, for now it's working. Sort of.

--47.216.xx.xxx




To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jul 24, 2018 6:11 AM
Message:

I think you will learn that some systems with 410 run with pistons, in fact the goodman line which is the little brother of Amana uses pistons, the idea that you have an Amana a/c inside trane sheet metal would not be considered a frankenstien and upon inspection you will find many hybrid forced air furnaces of one company with another condenser/a coil combo, actually it seems like you may be lucky because the goodman uses aluminum coils and they do not go very long overcharged without spurting a leak, I would suggest testing the air handler cavity with a halogen detector when the system is idle to verify the interior coil is not leaking, you may end up with the txv together on a replacement coil if that is the way Amana was to be controlled on the high pressure side - where did the original charge go anyway? I have never seen the interior coils for the Amana family but if they are a piston then you will have to stay with that style but the fact remains the system lost the original charge and the part that leaked it out would be declared faulty. The failure from overcharging would be negligence on the part of the recent service. A good halogen detector will exhibit a high reading when experimented as a breathalizer, you may have already had one in your travels and did not know it, they are a good detector for an employer to have handy... --76.188.xxx.xx




To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: Jul 24, 2018 6:40 PM
Message:

Thanks Vee. They determined via the serial or model numbers that this setup requires the TXV valve not a piston. Apparently there was even a meeting around the time of our installation regarding that.

I may have confused you, our system never had a leak, the original r22 was recovered (and I never saw any $$ from that). Yes, I don't think leaving it over charged for a day helped it any but there doesn't seem to be a leak.

But it's 123 outside right now (hottest day this year - Phoenix and Vegas broke records) and it's keeping up. But it is more a testament to the incredible insulation our house has. The AC is still running an 11 degree split. I just checked it.

I'm in a bit of a quandary though. We plan to probably sell this house next winter if we have found a new place. I obviously need a good AC. At this point I'm considering yanking the whole system and putting in a brand new matching unit.

Our other option is we may keep this as a second / winter home. If that case I think we are going to install a second separate back-up mini-split system and an on demand propane generator so we aren't as inconvenienced. Seems like every year we have some catastrophe involving either loss of electric when it's 250 degrees outside or the AC fails.

If I was younger I'd go to HVAC school and I'd be sooo rich out here! LOL My AC guy has an INDOOR swimming pool at his house. --47.216.xx.xxx




To LTD (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jul 24, 2018 7:15 PM
Message:

If there was no leak why did adding make it suddenly work better? I don't know if you have aluminum coils but if you do I would do the halogen test next month, the results will guide you the next move. --76.188.xxx.xx




To LTD (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: Jul 25, 2018 1:23 AM
Message:

Hi Vee, it didn't make it work better. There were two issues. One was the capacitor went out and the compressor would't start. Replacing the capacitor fixed that. Then I mentioned the split had never been what I thought it should be - even thought it keeps the house cold.

At first we thought maybe they didn't put enough freon in when it was first charged. He added freon. I was thinking, add a LITTLE freon, like 1/8-1/4lb. HE added TWO pounds!

That was when it stopped working as well as it was before and it went to like a 2-3 degree split. As soon as we removed the extra freon it went back to a 10-13 split. Only issue now is I have no idea how much freon is actually in the system.

Anyway we survived 123 outside today and at 74-76 inside. :) --47.216.xx.xxx





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