I looked at a property again today that I looked at last year and made an offer on. It's 2 huge houses next to each other that have to be busted into apartments. The one would be a duplex and the other a 3 unit.

I'm sitting down to work the numbers on them again, because I don't have my number saved from the last time I offered on them.

As I sat down to do it, I just didn't feel like running the numbers.

Why?

The houses are huge, the project is huge!

I would literally be on site for the next year if I committed to this project.

I'd have to do the majority of the work, because hiring it would make it a no-go. All in, all done, Id cash flow between $1,500 & $1,800 after refi.

That's in my range for cash flow, but not turn around time. Personally, I get sick of going to the same property after a while and like to jump around to different houses.

I almost don't want to make an offer or make it so low that the seller gets pi$$ed, but Hey bud, you called me! Twice!

I may be getting lazy in the way that I'm buying them, because it's not a home run as it sits. I have to make it a home run. I'm getting to the point that I'd much rather have home runs as they sit with little re-configuring.

Redoing 2 houses into 5 units is nowhere as easy as just gutting a single story ranch.

Maybe make a list of the work that needs done, you cherry pick the stuff you like, and pay a non-skilled person to do the other stuff...minimum wage.

NE,

are they habitable now? tenants in place?

Maybe this project is worth hiring an employee or two while you manage and do other quicker flips.

Sounds like the fruit isn't juicy enough as is. A big payoff can be a great motivator. With better numbers you can hire out the work and get it done faster. Your back will thank you, and your wallet will too.

I looked at 2 deals last week that I would have dove into 2 years ago. Now I am dragging my feet and lowering my offer because I physically can't do some of the work anymore. That means I have to rework all my formulas and numbers to include hiring out the stuff I can't do.

One more "plug" NE...as others have said, you absolytely must factor in the cost of your time to see if this "Deal" is really a deal.

Too many LLs think, "I'll just do the work myself and save the hassle," but that has a cost. What else could you be doing to make more, or to enjoy the time your wealth allows you to fill with other activities?

Most businesses that amount to anything grow beyond the point where the founder/owners are involved in the minutiae. Look at Jeffrey...how could he host the Mr. LL Convention every year if he was doing all the maintenance, screening, and management of his 100+ units? He couldn't! So he's got systems integrated to make his life easier and more productive, and to have the FREEEEDOM! to do what he feels is most important. And where would we be today if Mr. Taylor had decided he had to swing every hammer and patch every piece of drywall? (grins)

The voice of freedom is calling, my friend. Listen to it. All the best!

I have a too tall rule. These two sound too tall therefore I would pass.

It sounds like too big of a time commitment for the return.....oh yeah, YOU will also have to actively manage the property/tenants in order to have a return. It is not a keeper.

If it's not something you want to mess with, that's always a valid thing. We expect to put in a certain amount of effort, and get a certain amount of reward in turn, and if the effort skews too high, and the costs aren't bargain enough to make it worthwhile, or the reward isn't great enough to make the extra effort worthwhile, then it's sensible to pass. You know your limits--- not that you're not capable of it, but that you have an affinity for doing business in a certain way, and this doesn't match the way you do feel like parceling out your (time, energy, financial) resources.

On the other hand, the thought of being ahead by five units this time next year isn't a bad thing. I can buy houses all day long if I want to, but at my current size, my rental income only supports about two or three renovations per year. For someone who has 20 units, growing by 5 in one year is expanding by a quarter. For someone who has 30, it's expanding by a sixth. And from the other angle, if you're ten units away from your current goal, 5 in one year would bring you halfway to your goal.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to tackle the big one first, so that you worked on it through the winter, when no one is moving, and got it on the market in time for income tax refunds; and then targeted to bring the smaller one online about the time when school lets out.

NE,

Congrats on thinking bigger! Sounds like your subconscious is pushing you another direction. Big DREAMS do that!

You must do the $100 per hour work, so right now you are paying $100/hour for the repairs. Get selfish with your time! Those children are growing up FAST!

Money is made by using your brain and you've got a good one! It's well trained, has wisdom, and business connections!

Consider controlling these properties with your brain and paperwork but let a hammer swinging buyer do the work. Let him buy them from you over time while he works on them.

Offer a number that gets you interested. As you have posted before, the seller might bite.

Make an offer based on hiring out the work. If your only interested in doing a deal or two a year and only owning a couple of units swinging a hammer is fine. If you want to run a business its not long term sustainable.