Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 17, 2018 7:57 PM
Discrimination? (by Moshe [CA]) Apr 17, 2018 8:06 PM
Discrimination? (by Ken [NY]) Apr 18, 2018 4:10 AM
Discrimination? (by plenty [MO]) Apr 18, 2018 5:18 AM
Discrimination? (by John... [MI]) Apr 18, 2018 5:23 AM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 5:24 AM
Discrimination? (by Vee [OH]) Apr 18, 2018 5:24 AM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 5:39 AM
Discrimination? (by Tom [FL]) Apr 18, 2018 6:07 AM
Discrimination? (by AllyM [NJ]) Apr 18, 2018 6:54 AM
Discrimination? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 18, 2018 6:57 AM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 7:05 AM
Discrimination? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 18, 2018 7:08 AM
Discrimination? (by R [OH]) Apr 18, 2018 9:27 AM
Discrimination? (by R [OH]) Apr 18, 2018 9:30 AM
Discrimination? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 18, 2018 10:36 AM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 10:44 AM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 10:54 AM
Discrimination? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 18, 2018 10:55 AM
Discrimination? (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Apr 18, 2018 5:51 PM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Apr 18, 2018 6:14 PM
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 17, 2018 7:57 PM Message:
Our company prefers to rent to tenants who are trying to overcome a personal struggle. This includes ex-cons and individuals with dated bad credit history. Could we be in danger of discriminating? --66.249.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Apr 17, 2018 8:06 PM Message:
Refusing to take an emotionally healthy person could be discrimination on basis of disability.
--47.139.xx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 4:10 AM Message:
I don't know about that but I think you are in more danger of going out of business --72.231.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:18 AM Message:
I'm with Ken, what's on the list of Personal Struggles? There should be a list for discernment. Actually don't know anyone like that ... Sounds like from your question, they wouldn't even rent to you Susan! What abput a Personal Summer? --99.203.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:23 AM Message:
Moshe: By not taking an emotionally healthy person, which Protected Class would they be discriminating against exactly?
They don't have a disability themselves, so it seems odd to say that the Protected Class would be the disabled.
I get what you're saying -- I'm just not sure it would technically violate any Fair Housing law.
- John...
--24.180.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:24 AM Message:
Please don't get the wrong idea. There are many people who are trying to better themselves yet are not given chances. One of our business philosophies is being a company of second chances. Our company is growing and turning a profit. We are in our fifth year and have very loyal tenants. It has recently dawned on me that we could be accused of discrimination, which is not our intention. I would like opinions on whether our philosophy could get us in trouble. We do not turn away potential tenants for any reason, but we do have our preferences. --172.223.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:24 AM Message:
I guess you have already chosen a name like -Susan's charity endeavors-, congratulations on winning the lottery to keep this funded. --76.188.xxx.xx |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:39 AM Message:
I am a little surprised with some of these replies. Here is a list to help with discernment: ex-cons who have paid the time for their crime and have a job, credit wrecked through divorce yet remarried and working toward rebuilding, sex-offenders who were charged many years in the past for having an under age girlfriend (he was 20 and she was 16), senior citizens who were hippie rebels and dodged the system and now have no income yet have children who will pay the rent but don't want to be on the lease. Each case is listened to and investigated. Liars we cannot deal with. Are we discriminating? --172.223.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 6:07 AM Message:
On your rental application if you ask marital status and/or age (senior citizen to determine if) they can NOT be asked on an application; age and marital status.
The credit issue could be a concern due to the fact the prospect could have delinquent accounts, charge offs and collections that are major no no's and usually are red flags. Checking credit is NOT a protected class. Your business model could have a true deadbeat or professional deadbeat slip through your application process and give you some major headaches; damages and nonpayment of rents. As a landlord/pwner protecting my investment is key to my success and I am not a charity nor a major risk taker in that sense that I will jeopardized my investment with a possible deadbeat or professional deadbeat tenant(s). There are government subsidizes housing to handle poor credit prospects that will not pass my credit standards.
--99.56.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 6:54 AM Message:
So is your "company" an organization that helps the homeless? Why are you calling it a company. --69.141.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 6:57 AM Message:
Someone has to rent to those people. I'm glad it works out for you.
The landlords I know who specialize in that sort of tenant charge extra high rent. That keeps out decent people who can qualify for rentals that cost less.
Being decent, hardworking, and honest isn't a protected class. The rest of us set a credit score that we won't rent below. I can't image it would be illegal to set a credit limit that you won't rent above --174.216.x.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 7:05 AM Message:
Thank you, Oregon Woodsmoke. I appreciate your answer. Maybe we are more out of the box than I imagined. Please feel free to check us out. The name of our company is Me&U Properties LLC. We are simply a company with unique visions and philosophies. We are also extremely right wing Republicans, for those that want to pigeon hole us. We charge market rent, not escalated. Our standards for our rentals are a little higher than average. Another one of our philosophies is that we have two major assets: our real estate holdings, and our tenants. --172.223.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 7:08 AM Message:
Every vacancy I have, I will get about 10 applicants suitable for the OP. I don't think she has to advertise "felonies, bankrupts, bad credit, and evictions accepted" in order to find her tenants. But, of course, putting that into ads will help screen out the people she doesnt want.
OP, just put that into your written rental criteria to make sure you are covered.
All you have to do is to mention that you accept felons and sex offenders when you are showing apartments and the higher quality applicants will move on.
I suggest that you also accept pitbulls and smokers because those folks have a very difficult time finding a place to rent.
--174.216.x.xxx |
Discrimination? (by R [OH]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 9:27 AM Message:
Hi Susan, thanks for posting. I don't have any answers to your question but actually a question and congratulations for you. Most people here I think are running away from some of the people that you rent to. How do you find good tenants by doing what you do? I have someone approach me about renting a place. This person had their house raided for selling illegal substances. This person said they learned their lesson. How would you screen this person to see if they qualify for one of your places? I can't do it be cause of what has happened and I see some issues ahead, possibly but more from a money standpoint. Thank you in advance and good luck to you. It gives hope to those who may not have made good decisions in their life. --12.47.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by R [OH]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 9:30 AM Message:
I should also say that by having a written criteria is a way to avoid discrimination. Some will use a point scoring system. Treat everyone the same, even when showing the place. Try to keep your speech at the showing the same. Good luck. --12.47.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 10:36 AM Message:
My (non-lawyer) take...
Discrimination runs both ways. Let me give the ground-rules and follow up with a few examples.
The Fair Housing act protects against discrimination based on: race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, and familial status.
1st example: Color
People (incorrectly) assume that this is a white land lord refusing to rent to blacks, but it could also be a black land lord refusing to rent to whites.
2nd example: Race
People (incorrectly) assume this would be a caucasian refusing to rent to African Americans, but it could also be a Latino LL who refuses to rent to none Latinos.
Now let's quickly examine the term discrimination. People general think that discrimination is always negative, but it can be positive as well. For example, we discriminate who we give college scholarships to based on academic achievement. The better you achieve, the more scholarship money you receive, typically. So discrimination is not always BAD, only if it achieves a bad result. The whole intention of having laws to protect certain classes is trying to achieve positive results for those who have had a history of being wronged or left out. Keep that in mind.
So to your situation...
You are discriminating based on personal struggles, which you have defined in one way as people with a criminal record.
First, you are absolutely within your rights to discriminate based on criminal background as it pertains to FFH. There is no part of the Federal Fair Housing law that lists this as a protected class. State laws may vary.
Second, recent comments and policies have been enacted to say that, due to certain ethnic groups having a higher arrest and conviction rate than other, that discriminating based on criminal history is de facto discrimination by ethnic group, which is illegal. This has not been fully settled yet, but it's one of those "do I really want to be the test case for this?" situations.
Now here's where it gets REALLY interesting...
You want to discriminate IN FAVOR of people with criminal history (or other personal struggles), which is typically the opposite of what the recently policies were trying to prevent. Based on this, I think you would be OK to proceed with your policy of renting to people with personal struggles of this kind because:
a) It holds to the spirit of the policy if not the letter (i.e. making it easier for groups that experience negative discrimination to get housing). As stated above, this is discrimination that yields a positive result for a group that typically received negative discrimination.
b) The policy being tossed around is not law, to my knowledge. It's just a guideline being interpreted/tested in courts as we sit here. The general thought is you can discriminate based on criminal history as long as there is good cause to ensure they pay the rent, to protect the safety of other residents (in multifamily) and the community. In this case...you're aiming to achieve the opposite result: instead of denying an historically challenged group, you are aiding them, which would throw any lawyer into a tail spin trying to prove that what you're doing is harming a group that has experienced disadvantages in the past.
Lawyer: "Your Honor, this LL's policies are helping provide housing to people who normally have a lot of trouble getting it."
Judge: "Uh, huh, you don't say. And this is a negative, why?"
Lawyer: "Um, er, I dunno."
I'd try to get the local media to do a story on you to make you a hero to the community. Any lawyer who sues you will become a pariah for hurting the less fortunate. Ba-da-boom!
I'd also tailor your criteria to list specific personal struggles: criminal background with X, Y, Z type offenses within past # of years, for example. Or battered women, single moms, recovering drug addicts, etc. Be CLEAR you are not targeting a specific group that is protect in FFH, because these groups of people come from ALL of the 7 protected classes. Then it is their PAST BEHAVIOR you are discriminated in favor of, not their skin, nationality, sex, etc.
Bottom line: I think you're okay to proceed with what you are doing. I am not a lawyer. This is not professional advice. Seek proper counsel at your discretion. --173.17.xx.xx |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 10:44 AM Message:
S i d, thank you SO much for your thorough answer. You covered a lot of territory and provided me the kind of information I was looking for. *hats off* --2600:380:701e:9... |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 10:54 AM Message:
R - OUR process is fairly simple. We get sad sack stories just like any LL but we stop and listen. People tell a lot with their body language and you learn to read people. Then we check their story. Many criminal cases are public record. Google also provides great leads to news articles etc etc. We require 3 personal references per applicant and we call those references. Of course you would expect personal defences to have favorable information, but you would be surprised how many don't. We ask fun questions like "what do you enjoy doing when you hang out with applicant". This provides good info.
In your situation I would truly check the story. Are they still hanging out with other people of the same court case? Do they have a record or testimony of making good decision s since the seizure? What does their employer think of their work ethic? I hope you get the picture. --2600:380:701e:9... |
Discrimination? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 10:55 AM Message:
Susan, this forum runs a ' little odd' in some opinions.
In pretty much with ya on market audience, except most of my applicants fit that description. I don't advertise specifically. I pick the first qualified, and I have some odd written criteria. I've shown my list of criteria to a fair housing representative at city landlord training program. I was also considering focusing on vets, and that would have been fine with her (ended up not focusing on vets, that category is well covered in my area. )
My suggestion would be to check with Fair Housing, but I also know they can be very hard to get a hold of by phone.
I focus on training with my tenants. Its a slow worthwhile process. --172.56.xx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 5:51 PM Message:
Congrats Susan on serving such a challenging niche. You must have an extensive screening process. I mean, you have to otherwise you'd gone under years ago.
It also explains why you have such interesting posts with situations I rarely see. Do you charge higher rents for the risk? I'm sure you have loyal tenants and high holdovers. After all, where's the former offender going to go?
OREGON WOODSMOKE: "Being decent, hardworking, and honest isn't a protected class." No, it's an endangered species. --108.69.xxx.xxx |
Discrimination? (by Susan [WA]) Posted on: Apr 18, 2018 6:14 PM Message:
Landlord ofthe Flies, we charge market price. We are not giving a handout but we do offer a second chance. We believe in treating these people like all people, but some landlords don't give them a chance. We do. We have very loyal tenants who treat our property with respect because we treat our tenants with respect. It is not hard. We do charge market price, but we maintain our property very well. Last week I had a tenant tell me we could charge much more because we do have higher end upgrades and services. These are simply decisions we have made and how we run our business. We have 9 rentals and last week was our first eviction in five years. --172.223.xxx.xxx |
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