Emotional Support Animal? (by Suzie [AL]) Apr 13, 2018 11:08 AM|
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 11:20 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 11:22 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by DJ [VA]) Apr 13, 2018 11:36 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjl [NY]) Apr 13, 2018 11:39 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 13, 2018 11:40 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Apr 13, 2018 12:08 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by David [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 12:17 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by CGB [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 12:22 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Apr 13, 2018 12:42 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 13, 2018 12:53 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by Vee [OH]) Apr 13, 2018 2:40 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by Alan [CA]) Apr 13, 2018 4:41 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 14, 2018 6:30 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Apr 14, 2018 9:04 AM
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 14, 2018 12:14 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 14, 2018 12:19 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjo'h [CT]) Apr 14, 2018 1:40 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjo'h [CT]) Apr 14, 2018 1:45 PM
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Apr 15, 2018 6:14 AM
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Emotional Support Animal? (by Suzie [AL]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:08 AM
State Specific Question About: ALABAMA (AL)
I have a tenant that has been renting from me since 2012. She has a child born in '09. I recently found out that she has an animal in the house. I found this out when I was looking for the person who had broken three windows on a home we were doing work on, which was her child. She is paying for the windows.
When discussing the no pet policy she tells me it is for her child with ADHD and she can get a letter. I've received a diagnostic statement from the College of Medicine/department of Neurology (its legitimate), that states, under remarks/comments: Pet therapy to include dogs is working well to help manage patient condition.
I understand that I must accept a service animal and an emotional support animal. My question is: Would this be considered an emotional support animal? The word therapy sticks out to me. --104.56.xxx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:20 AM
What they need for documentation is basically a letter from some sort of healthcare provider that states that the person is disabled (but not necessarily what the disability is) and that the person needs the animal to help them "have the same opportunity as a non-disabled person to use and enjoy the housing community." (Note that that quote is not from the law, but from other sources I have gathered over time -- so I just mean "something along those lines" not necessarily "that exact wording.")
In my opinion, a "diagnostic statement" stating that a dog is helping to manage the patients condition does NOT meet those requirements.
I would give them a written letter stating that you require documentation of what I mentioned above. Give them a deadline to provide it or you will have to consider the dog a pet (and then follow your normal course of action for if they had a pet).
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:22 AM
Oh, and to better answer your question... With the documentation, yes, this would be an emotional support animal. The word "therapy" there is just the way they wrote the diagnostic assessment, but they doesn't make it a "therapy animal" necessarily.
Again, that's WITH the documentation. Without, it isn't an ESA. It's a pet. Even if it provides therapy to others.
Emotional Support Animal? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:36 AM
Whether or not they can come up with the proper documentation to label it an ESA, is only part of the problem.
IF your rental agreement says NO pets/animals were allowed in the house, and they moved one in anyway WITHOUT clearing it with you or at least notifying you in advance, that is a sign of a bigger problem. They don't care what you/legal documents say.
You might try to have a serious wake-up conversation regarding the importance of abiding by the lease, and gauge their reaction to see if they are at all apologetic vs arrogant about their "rights". This, for me, would determine the next course of action. --68.10.xxx.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjl [NY]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:39 AM
What's truly interesting is that they have the pet - never told you about it and when YOU confronted them about it they came up with the "it's for my daughter with ADHD and she can GET a letter".
So now you have a letter and "all is fine". She gets to now keep her pet ahem "emotional support animal". Good for her.
I probably would be looking to either soon to be evicting her OR not renewing a lease (if she's in one) based on the fact that her daughter is causing damage to the property. I don't care that she's paying for the windows - what else is going on in there? If she's busting windows - what else is she busting up? Doors? Walls?
Also - obviously the dog isn't helping her unfortunately ... I don't mean to be mean about that or sarcastic. If the dog is there to "help" her - but she's still breaking/busting things up - that's not good. I feel for the dog ... it's probably scared. --69.201.xx.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 11:40 AM
Several odds things about this catch my attention:
"Pet therapy" indicates this is a pet, not an ESA. I would be highly skeptical that this agency is legit: it may be an agency, but it may not fit the legal definition of someone who can write legit scripts for ESAs. Time for more research. Too early to say yes or no.
"College of Medicine/department of Neurology"? Of what state or organization? Is it a legit medical practice or a training ground? Or is it some dopey thing concocted on the Internet to provide boiler room letters for a fee of $50? I'd want to know if they are accredited and by whom. Any license at the state or federal level?
The timing also bothers me. I'd want to see the ORIGINAL date this "pet therapy" was prescribed. If the animal entered onto the premises prior to authorization of the treatment, then a lease violation occurred.
My 2 cents: stay quiet for now, but keep digging. --173.17.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 12:08 PM
yes she was wrong not telling you in advance but the letter provided, which you say has been authenticated, fulfills her obligations albeit after the fact. Tossing them out now will not protect you from violating state and Federal law on reasonable accommodations. You do not have the right legally to ascertain what her emotional or physical disability is and have to accept a letter stating it is necessary and is proving to be successful.
You can be as indignant as you want about her failure to notify you before but if she files a complaint with FHA you will lose on two counts, reasonable accommodation and retaliatory measures. --71.75.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 12:17 PM
NC INVESTOR, declining to renew her lease would not be retaliatory measure. --12.47.xx.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 12:22 PM
In my opinion, this was a lease violation. The Tenant had a dog on the property without prior notification to the landlord or a current letter stating a necessity for an emotional support animal. The tenant did things back asswards. Now that you have the letter, I don't think you can do anything other than not renew her lease. In the future, if you discover an illegal animal on the property, if you don't have a medical necessity letter on hand, serve immediately with a lease violation. --50.77.xxx.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 12:42 PM
DAVID: While that is technically true the timing could be looked at as odd. The tenant has been with her for almost 6 years so she has obviously been a good tenant otherwise Suzie would have pushed her out of there before now. If the tenant believes it is due to the dog and reports it, it is a roll of the dice on how the regulatory agency views it. --71.75.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 12:53 PM
Actually, I find the damages to the property to be the most concerning....and as that has NOTHING to do with the critter, I say evict for that. ESA does not mean you get a pass to damage property: even if they pay for damages. We are not obliged to rent to someone until they smash up $10,000 worth of a house and can't pay! --173.17.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 2:40 PM
All in all they are still going to have to clean up and pay for damages caused by the animal, there is nothing that excuses the animal owner from being a responsible owner.
Funny thing, I was in Home depot last night and 2 dogs came to each other in the aisle near the cash register, one dog was sitting while the owner was holding some tension on the leash - the other dog was going crazy yanking the owner towards the well mannered dog barking loudly and the owner could barely get the dog out the door, a lot of people were scared, distracted and shaken by the bad dog, the wife was trying to say this was her registered dog, I told her it is a fake and they need to take the dog back for more behavior training, she said it is just a pup - I answered that is surely a faulty training program as she ran away. --76.188.xxx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by Alan [CA]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 4:41 PM
All this ESA and Comfort Critter crap is so vague and loosely defined...anyone can get whatever fake medical documentation off the internet one needs to justify having a pet, regardless. --73.158.xxx.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 6:30 AM
If that is a legit medical center, she will get the properly worded letter at the snap of a finger. The medical center has already stated that a dog helps her. You aren't getting that dog out.
I'd have her out of my unit because of the three broken windows. One broken window might be an accident. Three broken windiws is deliberate destruction. That behavior isn't going to get any better. The child is young for that kind of vandalism and will be getter more destructive every year through her teen years.
She's also young for fire starting, but I would bet that is coming to your future.
I'd ignore the dog and not renew her lease. Dont make the dog an issue that she can bring up at her eviction hearing. --174.216.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 9:04 AM
Vee: The real problem there is Home Depot -- not necessarily the dog people. It clearly wasn't a SERVICE Animal. At best, it was an Emotional Support Animal, right? ESAs have ZERO rights in a private location like Home Depot. Only Landlords and Airlines have to worry about ESAs. They are not part of the ADA.
The problem is that companies have no balls to say anything. They don't want to upset people. So, they don't -- and problems like what you saw occur.
What they SHOULD be doing is having the greeters simply say something along the lines of: "Hi! Welcome to Home Depot! I see that you have a dog with you today. Unfortunately, we do not allow pets in the store. Is your dog a Service Animal that is trained to help someone disabled with a task?"
But no one has the guts.
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 12:14 PM
Greeters at Home Depot hand out dog biscuits and there are designated dog shopping carts lined with astroturf.
The clerks stocking shelves often have pockets full of dog biscuits and know the names of their regular canine customers. --174.216.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 12:19 PM
I've never seen dog trouble at Home Depot, but I have seen dog trouble at Walmart, where the greeters do stop all dogs and ask if the dog is a service animal.
It doesn't keep them out. The dog owner just lies.
Stores are victims of bad legislation, just like landlords are. Except their problem dogs leave after an hour or so. --174.216.xx.xx
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 1:40 PM
Had three Samoyed's.I trained the older dog when I first got her.She in turn trained the other one's if I had used the same tactics as she did,I'd have been arrested for animal cruelty,she was merciless. Suzie,the town where you live,usually has a health Department,where they usually demand to have dogs Licensed and spayed.Talk to them.Might make it as hard as possible to toe the line.........charlie..................two animals will do less material damage than one --174.199.x.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 1:45 PM
A lot less than that little girl........................a lot less........................... --174.199.x.xxx
Emotional Support Animal? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 15, 2018 6:14 AM
I disagree it is just bad legislation for the stores. It is more PR. Again, they need to be tougher about asking if it is a Service Animal or an ESA. I get that people will lie, but most of it seems to be them not knowing the difference between a SA and an ESA. If they asked a better question, I think they could resolve a lot of this.
That being said, I agree that legislation could certainly HELP. Maybe we DO need a National registry for Service Animals so that people simply showed their ID card for the SA. And ESA people would be unable to get them.
Unfortunately, my fear is that if we push for legislation like that, the opposite would happen: They'd issue ID cards for both SAs and ESAs and there would cease to be any legal difference. :(
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