Space Heaters / How safe?
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Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 3:49 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Steve [MA]) Apr 9, 2018 4:08 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robert J [CA]) Apr 9, 2018 4:13 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robin [WI]) Apr 9, 2018 4:29 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 4:36 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 9, 2018 4:50 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 4:59 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Richard [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 5:23 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by LindaJ [NY]) Apr 9, 2018 5:26 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 9, 2018 5:27 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Jason [VA]) Apr 9, 2018 5:39 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 5:46 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 5:56 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Vee [OH]) Apr 9, 2018 5:57 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 5:59 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 6:34 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Steve [MA]) Apr 9, 2018 6:39 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 6:50 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2018 7:17 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by RB [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 7:25 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 9, 2018 7:29 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Pete [OR]) Apr 9, 2018 7:33 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [NC]) Apr 9, 2018 7:36 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by AllyM [NJ]) Apr 9, 2018 8:22 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by AllyM [NJ]) Apr 9, 2018 8:28 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Don [PA]) Apr 9, 2018 9:36 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Gail K [GA]) Apr 9, 2018 9:41 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by NE [PA]) Apr 9, 2018 9:45 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 9, 2018 10:22 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Apr 9, 2018 10:36 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Shaun [FL]) Apr 9, 2018 10:47 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 9, 2018 10:56 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Ken [NY]) Apr 9, 2018 11:00 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by cjo'h [CT]) Apr 9, 2018 11:33 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Barb [MO]) Apr 9, 2018 12:25 PM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robert J [CA]) Apr 9, 2018 9:03 PM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 10, 2018 2:33 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Vee [OH]) Apr 10, 2018 5:51 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 10, 2018 7:23 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 10, 2018 7:35 AM
       Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 10, 2018 7:53 AM

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Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 3:49 AM
Message:

I have tenants who, for whatever reason, prefer to use cheap electric space heaters (bought at Walmart) instead of using the Gas wall heaters which come with the house they rent. Even houses with Central Heat/Air with a Gas furnace, they will not have the Gas service turned on and then plug-in their own 15 amp electric space heaters in each room to heat the house with.

There is nothing I can do to stop this. It is their choice, not mine.

My question is this: just how safe are electric space heaters?

Would you feel comfortable sleeping in a room with a space heater running on high all night long?

--68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:08 AM
Message:

I would have no problem using a good electric space heater. I have numerous times used the liquid filled radiator style electric heaters for temporary heat during renovations. We have never left them running on high while unattended.

However I would be very leery of a tenant being responsible enough to use one as their primary source of heat. I see issues arising with tenants using improper gauge extension cords, placing them too close to combustibles, storing items on them, unsupervised children, overloading circuits, etc.

I presume these tenants don't have the credit ability to have either natural gas or propane service at their rental so they try to get by with just using electricity. I'm not sure how you can effectively police this. --72.93.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:13 AM
Message:

In an upstairs front apartment I had a nice dual sided wall furnace that heated the bedroom and living room. But like your tenant, the family preferred using an electric space heater.

The children before school had a pillow fight and left a pillow against the electric space heater. The mother didn't check on the heater before walking her kids to school. When she returned her unit was destroyed in the fire. The fire department couldn't get through her front metal security door and had to enter through the window with a tall ladder.

The family said, "It wasn't their fault". When asked was the wall furnace broken, they replied no, the gas was turned off because they didn't pay their bill!.

So the Fire Martial, The Gas Company contacted "Housing" that I was some kind of landlord that allowed tenant to live without heat! I was summoned to a hearing. I told the jury, the husband had purchased a new Jaguar XJ6 and had to decide either to pay the heating bill or let he car be repossessed. I also caught them plugging in the heater using an outlet in the central hallway off of the house meter. They were stealing my utility.

So now I sometimes install a 4 to 6 inch cage around the front of the electric space heaters to prevent fire of give the tenants a new designed heater that uses heat bulbs and a flower fan that is fire proof. --47.156.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:29 AM
Message:

Most space heaters have a safety feature that turns them off if tipped over. I guess Robert's story illustrates that nothing is COMPLETELY safe... --204.210.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:36 AM
Message:

Question #2: if an electric space heater is rated for 15 amps,...would you put that on a 15 or 20 amp breaker?

I have one vacant house that needs some additional home-run circuits added just in case my new tenants want to use their own space heaters. --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:50 AM
Message:

Baseboard heat is considered safe and up to code, right? But in my opinion they are not very different than plug-in electric heaters: if you put your couch or curtains right near or on the heater, they can catch fire, as noted on the stickers on the front of the heaters.

We have some box heaters that are very nice: put off great heat and on wheels so very easy to move about. We give these to tenants in a heat emergency, and feel they are about as safe as anything we could provide.

Similar to this, I can't find our exact model.

smile.amazon.com/Intertek-Soleil-Infrared-Cabinet-891101002341/dp/B01DVBVO22/ref=sr_1_5?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1523274504&sr=1-5&keywords=infrared+box+heater+electric --50.82.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 4:59 AM
Message:

WMH,

Many years ago, I use to have 240 volt baseboard heaters in a few of my houses. Tenants would cover them with furniture

and then complain there was no heat in the house! --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:23 AM
Message:

They have been made safer in the last few years but none is completely safe. Tenants use them because the electric company is forbidden to turn off electric in the winter.

These type tenants typically move in April or May when electric company is allowed to terminate for non payment.

They do not care about your rules and will use these heaters no matter what you say.

I would bet 90+ percent do not have electric in their own name.

Make sure your insurance is paid up. Make sure your rental agreement forbids this, but like I said, they don't care and will do it anyway. --23.121.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:26 AM
Message:

Most space heaters these days have tip over shutoff and overheat protection. The weak point is the cord and plug. Like anything, using them properly is safe, but will tenants use them properly. Do they keep combustibles away, plug them into the proper outlet/circuit, not put the cord under rugs, not use leads? I don't trust most tenants with that on a day to day basis. I also would not trust they keep it running enough to keep my pipes from freezing (here in the north east).

If you find that happens most of the time with your houses, how about putting in some electric baseboard heat. I would think they are a bit safer since you know how they were wired. I have one house that has a propane heater that is used for the main heat. There are a couple of baseboard heaters in the farther rooms. Current occupant does not use them at all because she realizes how much more expensive electric is, but it is available to use. --96.236.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:27 AM
Message:

Generally, newer heaters are safe if used according to the instructions. But as others have said, the tenant A) don't read the instructions and B) don't care.

So they'll use a 16 gauge, 50 ft extension cord so they can plug the heater in and move it right next to their bed. And they'll tuck the cord under a rug so they don't trip over it.

I non-renewed a lease in Jan this year for a tenant who kept installing space heaters in dangerous ways and indicated she intended to keep doing just that even after I told her to quit it. You can't fix willful dangerous behaviors, so you get rid of them ASAP. --173.17.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:39 AM
Message:

Roy, your electrical circuit's load should never exceed 80% of that circuit's rating. For example, you should never apply more than 12 amps to a 15 amp circuit. Look at the nameplate of the heater to determine the actual current draw, then base your circuit calculation from that. --170.224.xx.x




Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:46 AM
Message:

regarding tip-over prevention. I bought a new, brand name 120v space heater. It did NOT have feature for shutoff when tip over.

One space heater for that one cooler room is ok. Using them permanently everywhere , especially if their utility is shut off for non-payment, is not ok! --12.47.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:56 AM
Message:

Jason

I called my favorite electrician this morning about this issue. He recommends a 20 amp home-run circuit with 12/2 Romex.

I also called Alagasco this morning and found out the lock on the gas meter has been on there for 5 years! This means my last 4 tenants have not used the gas heaters in this house! I now realize why most insurance companies do not want to insure rental houses located in Class C hoods. --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:57 AM
Message:

I think renters insurance would be the best way to answer the question, this way when a fire occurs there is something they have to help you pay for repairs, most of the heaters I have seen are 1200 watts which is about 12 amps, they will move them around if the existing circuit can't hold up, cords will make trouble with heaters, my Frat brothers home burned to the ground cause his son-in-law plugged a window unit into a lamp cord, thank goodness the dog woke up the kids, the parents had gone to work. --76.188.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 5:59 AM
Message:

Roy, you should be requiring proof of both electric and gas transfer at lease signing.

Your tenants are dumb, but they are dumb because they assumed the gas heating in the house did not work because the gas meter was locked. --12.47.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 6:34 AM
Message:

David (MI)

If my tenants were any smarter, they would be home-owners instead of tenants! However, even homeowners do stupid things too,...so it all goes back to the notion that you can't fix stupid.

Richard (MI) - Years ago, I rehabbed a Mobile Home for another investor who had purchased it. This MH had tenants living in it at the time and it had only one functioning 110 volt wall outlet. From this one outlet, the tenants had attached multiple 50 ft. 16 gauge extension cords and these cords ran to each room of the trailer. At the end of the each 50 ft. cord was a $2.00 6-outlet surge bar. This trailer actually had a breaker box in it but inside that box were only two 50 amp breakers. One breaker was used for the stove, frig, W/D and the other breaker was used for the one functioning wall outlet. --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 6:39 AM
Message:

Roy, I think Linda J's idea of adding some hard wired electric baseboard or perhaps some hard wired in the wall electric fan powered heat might greatly lower the risk of potential problems in the units that Tenants never get the gas turned on.

I imagine that if the gas hasn't been activated in 5+ years that the units would need some servicing prior to be used. --72.93.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 6:50 AM
Message:

Roy, you should be proactive by requiring proof of gas turn on at move-in. At least then you have proof that the gas heating worked and it was the tenants who stopped it. --12.47.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 7:17 AM
Message:

David,

Not to beat a dead horse here, but 6 years ago, I had (2) brand new vent-less gas heaters installed by a licensed professional in this small 750 sq. ft house. These 2 gas heaters will heat up this small house in about 30 minutes on any cold day or night. These heaters still have that unused brand new look to them.

Steve - As I have said previously, I have tried baseboard heaters before and my tenants cover them with furniture which prevents the heat from radiating into the room. --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 7:25 AM
Message:

This Post leaves Me asking:

How many Here, (Lurkers and Posters)

Could (legally by Law)

or Would (intentionally knowing)

Rent a SFH, with the Gas Meter Valve Shut Off

and Locked,

to Multiple Tenants, over a 5 year period ?

Don't be Shy with your answers. --47.35.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 7:29 AM
Message:

I would. Because I hate gas and would be glad that tenants weren't using it and possibly blowing up my house. --50.82.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Pete [OR]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 7:33 AM
Message:

I have seen melted receptacles from plugged in heaters verses hard wired connections. The connection just isn"t as good. --67.41.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [NC]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 7:36 AM
Message:

I am not sure how I would ever know the gas was locked. If I open the account while renovating and they the tenant puts it in their name and subsequently it gets lock, how would I ever know and why would I ever check? I'd assume everything was working unless someone told me different. --71.50.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 8:22 AM
Message:

Roy, the last five years have been Solar Maximum and it was probably not necessary to use the gas. Now it is Solar Minimum for five years and it is going to get even colder than this year.

I didn't read all the comments but something on your lease has to say no to space heaters. I just got two new tenants whose ancestry is from warmer climates. I installed two baseboard heaters, one in each of the north facing bedrooms. The house heater is gas hot air but there are huge windows so cold air drops off the windows.

You might try that solution. Is it possible to check their credit and find out if they can get gas from the gas company? --69.141.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 8:28 AM
Message:

Roy, what is a ventless gas heater as you mentioned above? Here are your exact words:

Not to beat a dead horse here, but 6 years ago, I had (2) brand new vent-less gas heaters installed by a licensed professional in this small 750 sq. ft house. These 2 gas heaters will heat up this small house in about 30 minutes on any cold day or night. These heaters still have that unused brand new look to them.

Burning gas makes carbon monoxide so isn't that a bit dangerous and could potentially kill the tenants and be your fault? Maybe they look new because the tenants know they could die if they used them? --69.141.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Don [PA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 9:36 AM
Message:

Robert, modifying the space heater with your own contraption is a big mistake. Brings you into liability, even if just a situation where you gave a false sense of security. Leave the heaters as they came from the factory or ban them in general. --73.141.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Gail K [GA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 9:41 AM
Message:

My HVAC cringes at the thought of space heaters. He can tell all sorts of stories of fried outlets due to these.

I'm in the deep south and every winter we might get a cold snap. When we do we're likely to a news item EACH DAY of at least one house burning down every night. The cause? Typically space heaters left running at night; curtains, blankets, sheets catching fire because of them.

One of my fellow tenants got cited by License and Inspection recently. His tenants had complained of the "high cost" of gas in their little "shotgun" house so he had the ventless gas heater removed and the gas line plugged. They started using space heaters and then complained about their electric bills!

Called License and Inspection who cited the LANDLORD and said space heaters were an illegal source of heat in the place. The landlord freaked out and called me thinking he needed to now invest big bucks for central heat/air in his $400 a month place. I told him to reconnect the gas line and go back to providing this as the source of heat and he would meet the requirements. He did.

There is likely nothing one can do to stop tenants from using those little space heaters. If they insist it would be better to provide them the oil filled radiators which would be safer in terms of curtains, sheets, etc. coming in contact with the source of heat.

Gail --71.203.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 9:45 AM
Message:

I bet they are getting their electric bills paid by some welfare/charity organization.

I don't worry about this stuff unless utilities are included in the rent. Keep good insurance. --174.201.x.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 10:22 AM
Message:

RB (MI) methinks the reason for frequent turnovers and no notice move -outs has been uncovered.

--172.58.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 10:36 AM
Message:

@David [NC] you would know it was locked when the unit turns over and you put it back in your name. --12.47.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Shaun [FL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 10:47 AM
Message:

Most of my Tenants do not like gas, actually it is the "Gas Companies" in our area. Just this year I switched the last Central HVAC system from gas to electric. --205.223.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 10:56 AM
Message:

I don't think the heaters are dangerous all on their own, but there are house fires that make the news where the cause of the fire was drapes, or blankets, or furniture left too close to the heater and that item caught on fire and started the house fire.

Incidentily the news always mentions the great Red Cross who step in to care for the tenants who lost their home. Owner occupied fires are almost nonexistent. House fires are almost all in rentals. --174.216.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 11:00 AM
Message:

RB,most of my houses are gas heat and gas water heater so this doesn't happen in my area very often but in Roys situation I wouldn't know and I wouldn't care,i have provided gas and if they choose to leave it off and heat with electric I don't care.That is what insurance is for --72.231.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 11:33 AM
Message:

Roy,how are you lad.Tenants like space heaters because they can see and feel the heat,they can't do that with a baseboard unit.I use one myself but It's turned off before everyone retires for the night,if you could impart that information to your tenants,would be good.You can tell them,may not sink on. If the house is wired properly,you shouldn't have any problem,even if the heater draws too much power,the breaker should trip. in my own opinion,most space heaters,even though they state otherwise,are not safe.who in their right mind would use a 16 guage wire to power a 1200 watt heater.The smallest wire in a house is #14 and that's for lights,#12 in kitchen.you figure it out.Good luck Roy.And Roy ,most tenants are smarter than we are,don't ever forget that.....charlie....... --174.199.xx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 12:25 PM
Message:

What about just installing forced air electric units?

Do these places have central heat and AC? Is it possible to add it? Otherwise, can you do the built into the wall electric units that provide heat and AC? --131.151.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2018 9:03 PM
Message:

Don, I agree that making a modification to a product had lots of liability. But, I'm a licensed Contractor with "Heating" credentials and "electrical" as well. Adding a shield to the front/side of a heater the keeps flammables a minimum 2, 3 or 4 inches from the face of the unit does add some security and safety.

In my 16 unit building I had heaters from the 1920's. Gas that stood out from an inner wall that tenant would push large king size beds against it and then turn on the heater when it got cold forgetting the bedspread is against the heater, causing fires. So for about 20 years I built a cage around the heater that kept things a small distance away, like 6 inches on every side. Then around 15 years later the City said I must replace those heaters. My partner got an estimate, $96,000. Instead as a plumbing/heating contractor I did it myself for under $16,000. (Time and materials). --47.156.xx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 10, 2018 2:33 AM
Message:

Why are you all making such a BIG DEAL over my 2 vent-less gas heaters in this particular house?

RB- The only reason my gas meter is padlocked is because my previous tenants chose not to use the gas service which is only for heating purposes. If they had chosen not to use the water service, there would be a lock on the water meter as well,...so why are you making an issue over the lock on my gas meter?

In southern states, 90% of homes use gas or propane for heating purposes. Again, why are you all making a big deal about using gas to heat homes with? And when someone does not pay their gas bill, Alagasco takes no mercy and puts a lock on your gas meter which explains why my rental house gas meter is locked up. --68.63.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Apr 10, 2018 5:51 AM
Message:

Roy, I assume there is no central hvac, the electric heat box or air handler for a heat pump system is very affordable for heat strips based on sq ft size just like the outdoor unit,I have been making a steel frame to put my pumps on the rooftop to reduce theft, add a 10bux low pressure port at the air handler so it can be sampled there without a ladder. --76.188.xxx.xx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 10, 2018 7:23 AM
Message:

Roy, sorry to say, but, the BIG DEAL is that YOU didn't notice!!

Class C tenants don't like to make waves. They sometimes assume the landlord knows these things 'are broken' and doesn't want to fix it. So, after their one year lease is up, they just move. Pretty soon the landlord gets a reputation as someone who doesn't fix anything.

I've said it on this board many times- ASK your tenants if every thing is going well. ASK your tenants if there are safety concerns they know about. Others on this board will stomp on that saying it increases liability. According to the business law class I took in college ( not that long ago, i was older than most of my instructors. Lest anyone think this is outdated,) making a tenant a partner in safety or maintenance by asking and then taking action reduces risk . Judges and juries like 'people who care'. So do tenants.

Roy, a comment you made a couple of weeks ago was very telling: the no-notice tenant was a two year tenant with no repairs during tenancy. If I understood correctly, you felt this was good because of no repairs. But, what if they could have become a four or six year tenant if you asked them a month or so after move in, and then with each change of season that first year if there were any issues? I've had tenants that didn't know how to use features of the house properly. A little training, and some continuing checks to keep them learning, and they stay longer., are very happy with the house, and when they do leave, they put in effort to leave the place in clean condition. Win!

Gas furnaces are the norm in my area. Safe, reliable, and budget-friendly in my region. --70.92.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 10, 2018 7:35 AM
Message:

Just to clarify- if a tenant is scared to use something,or doesn't know how to use something, in their mind, it's broken or dangerous. Landlords need to lead tenants, train tenants. Remember, landlord is in charge, tenant is not! --70.92.xxx.xxx




Space Heaters / How safe? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 10, 2018 7:53 AM
Message:

Just re-signed a lease with some tenants and only then did they mention the electric wall heater in the bathroom didn't work. It had never worked for them. They didn't even know it was a heater LOL! They use a Dyson Space Heater and carry that into the bathroom when they need it. They have electric baseboard but don't like it. --50.82.xxx.xx



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