Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 2, 2018 4:57 PM|
Eviction (by SHAUN [ID]) Apr 2, 2018 6:24 PM
Eviction (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Apr 2, 2018 6:37 PM
Eviction (by plenty [MO]) Apr 3, 2018 4:28 AM
Eviction (by WMH [NC]) Apr 3, 2018 4:52 AM
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Apr 3, 2018 5:21 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 6:21 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 6:25 AM
Eviction (by S i d [MO]) Apr 3, 2018 6:34 AM
Eviction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Apr 3, 2018 7:55 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 8:29 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 8:48 AM
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Apr 3, 2018 10:11 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 10:54 AM
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Apr 3, 2018 12:30 PM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 3, 2018 2:03 PM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 5:46 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 5:51 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 11:16 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 11:49 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 12:27 PM
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Apr 4, 2018 5:36 PM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 4, 2018 6:32 PM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 5, 2018 5:55 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 5, 2018 8:39 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 5, 2018 11:32 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 8:33 AM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 13, 2018 9:03 AM
Eviction (by mike [CA]) Apr 13, 2018 6:50 PM
Eviction (by Jeffrey [VA]) Apr 13, 2018 7:26 PM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Apr 14, 2018 9:08 AM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) May 5, 2018 3:27 PM
Eviction (by John... [MI]) May 5, 2018 4:20 PM
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 2, 2018 4:57 PM
I was planning on attending a court hearing tomorrow with a tenant who has not paid rent since January. Itís a 2 Hour drive for me and when I was halfway there I got a call from the courthouse that the tenant is in the hospital in intensive care. This of course, postpones our hearing for tomorrow. I have not been given a new date as of yet.
My assumption is that she is there because of drug abuse. The upstairs tenant called the police when she found a hypodermic needle on the ground outside. When the police came they found about 30 needles wrapped in a bloody blanket that was doused with urine.
I have gone through all of the legal steps and made sure that everything is done correctly. The court clerk actually complimented me on what a thorough job Iíve done with my paperwork.
The building is for sale and I have a prospective buyer who is very anxious to get inside. What are my legal rights at this point? Her 30 days have passed and after tomorrow we were expecting 10 days and then we could take possession. What do I do now? Does anyone know how this works in Michigan?
Before any of you starts to criticize me for being sloppy, I just want to say that this tenant was absolutely fine for 2 1/2 years with rent paid on time every month and no problems at all.
Eviction (by SHAUN [ID]) Posted on: Apr 2, 2018 6:24 PM
Sounds like you did your due diligence. No one should criticize you.
I am wondering since the cops were called & drug parafanalia was found that belongs to her- you could go in to her apartemnt. Given the circumstances. Not sure about Michigan laws so I would certainly find out first.
I had the same problem and was told by the police to go into the unit. But like I said, find out the law first.
Eviction (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Apr 2, 2018 6:37 PM
Strictly speaking. She's in the hospital and not in a position to complain. You can post a 24 hour notice to enter on the front door and then take your buyer inside after the 24 hours are up.
Expect it to be an awful mess. --174.216.x.xx
Eviction (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 4:28 AM
Good thing they called and you didn't have to drive all the way there. --99.203.xx.xxx
Eviction (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 4:52 AM
How did the Clerk of Court know she was in hospital??? That's the strange part. Nice of her to call you, though. I don't think ours would ever be that pro-active! --50.82.xxx.xx
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 5:21 AM
without knowing what that court hearing with tenant was about-- another words what phase of dispossessary-- was it for?
Past the judgement stage. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 6:21 AM
My apologies. This was to be the final hearing before the Magistrate. I was told that it was a mere formality and she would then be given 10 more days. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 6:25 AM
So, really two things here:
1. You need to continue the eviction as normal. If the tenant can't appear, so be it, but that doesn't make the eviction just stop. I would continue to contact the clerk about rescheduling. If they give an answer of "Well, we'll have to see when they get out of the hospital", then I would likely push it a bit. I'd ask them what Michigan law allows the delay of court due to these circumstances. If the clerk continues to argue it, then I'd be a bit upset at that point and I would likely remind them that I though clerks were not allowed to give legal advice. Then I'd ask them to therefore please schedule my court date as required by law.
2. The drug issue is completely separate really. Does the police report state that it belongs to the tenant or not? And does it state that it was an illegal controlled substance? (Someone could argue that it was a collection of used insulin syringes needed for diabetes, for example.) Michigan actually DOES have some laws regarding recovering possession of the premises after the tenant has violated laws related to controlled substances on the premises. But, you'd still need to have real evidence of that. And you'd still likely need to go to court for it. So, a clerk that won't schedule them while in the hospital would put you in the same place.
Eviction (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 6:34 AM
In my state, I am allowed to show the property during reasonable hours (7 am - 7 pm seems to be the norm) without any notice. Basically, if I want to bang on the door and say we're here to show, I can ... LEGALLY>
However, as a matter of courtesy, I give 24 hours notice. I also never enter when the tenant or their representative is not at home. Too much risk of them claiming I stole their stuff. Even if it's total made up B.S. their free (taxpayer provided) lawyer will blow it out of proportion and it will cost me time and $ to defend myself.
What the law says you can do and what you should do may be two different things. Know the law and follow common sense practices. Unfortunately, given the limited information we have at this point I think you will be wise to wait on showing this one. --173.17.xx.xx
Eviction (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 7:55 AM
People change. Their circumstances change. With monthly rent the change might have happened a month or two back and now they are broke and desperate. Our only clue is when they fail to pay. Thatís why we file the moment the rent is not paid.
Me? Emergency inspection to secure the home. You MUST look inside before you show a buyer. My guess is a huge mess.
Hospital does not have to to stall action on your part. I contact the res and work out a Move Out Agreement which I can give to the court without the res being present. I distributed this form at Convention.
My Emergency Contact form authorizes a person to handle their personal items in case of incapacitation, like being in the hospital. Add that to your Move Out Agreement.
How did the court know? The res or a friend called in to delay the eviction and get more time. Normal stall tactic. They just hot more free rent.
Amazing the court called you! Thank that clerk!
Keep is posted.
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 8:29 AM
I keep a very good relationship with our local municipalities. Heather is a doll!
According to Michigan law, a hospital stay is the ONE reason the hearing can be delayed. The hospital called and then faxed a statement signed by the doctor.
I just found out that we do have a new court date of April 24th. If she is a no show at that point, she's done. If she does show up, we will determine the course of action then. I plan to INSIST that NO more time be given her.
I have been on the phone all morning with the court, the police - you name it. Getting all the ammunition I can so i'm properly armed. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 8:48 AM
Can you tell me which Michigan law delays a hearing due to a hospital stay? (It may exist, but I don't know of it and couldn't find it with some Googling. Heck, Michigan law specifically states that you can PERSONALLY SERVE people for a court appearance that are IN a hospital even!)
I am just curious of that law, I guess. I must have missed it.
In any case, glad that you have a new court date, at least. Good luck!
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 10:11 AM
THANK the CLERK? what for? You should have gone anyway. Here's the steps. When calendar called you stand and say HERE when second person doesn't answer you ask for immediate possession. When clerk tells judge the person is in hospital-- you say "well your honor I'm here and ready for you do hear the case".
We are not responsible for persons life choices. Not going was a big mistake. Telling the judge her hospitalization was due to her selection of life choice should not impede the courts. Your honor had she been in an accident etc we agree to waiting but ODing just before court date was her selection and now your asking me to pay for it. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 10:54 AM
myob: That wouldn't work in this situation. As was said, the hearing had already been rescheduled. Therefore, they would no longer be on the calendar and, therefore, no one would ever call their name so that they could say "here."
The case wouldn't have happened that day -- period.
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 12:30 PM
John not so. I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed people in court room interupt the judge and say they're here for a case but you didn't call me.
Have had this happen to me. defendant when case is called tells judge I'm not ready my attorney isn't here. Judge calls me up to the box and says can we postpone for a while. I said no your honor. I'm here your here she's here and we're ready to have you hear this case. Judge looks at the woman and says-- "well little lady looks like we're going to trail".
We did and we won.
Second thing that bothers me even more than not going to court-- how do you know who you were talking to?
ALWAYS when scheduled go to court-- yes even when your atty says you don't have to be there.
john people h ave to stand up forthemselves. --99.103.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 3, 2018 2:03 PM
My hearing was before the Magistrate and not a judge and in this particular district court, itís the way things are handled. You can trust me when I tell you that I did indeed call the hospital to confirm she was there. Keep in mind that I ASSUME she is in the hospital for an overdose. I certainly cannot confirm that. HIPPA does not allow.
As to where exactly is the law that states this to be the allowable excuse, Iím afraid I canít tell you. Honestly, Heather has been very helpful to me and although she cannot by law give me any legal advice, she has found ways of Ďmaking me understandí what I can and cannot do. Suffice it to say that I trust her. I grew up in this town (where my rentals are) and keep very close ties with city officials. I am well respected but the law is the law and I must abide by it.
I would surely appreciate just answering the question that I originally posted. As of this morning, we have a new date of April 24th. Iím told that if she does not show again for ANY reason, then she is done. NO 10 day grace period - nothing. The Sherrif will accompany her out the door! If she does show up, I will use all my best sales training and get her out that day anyway.
I am doing a lot of praying and I remind myself that just because others behave wrongly doesnít mean that I have to. In over 30 years, this has never happened so for that, I am grateful. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 5:46 AM
myob: You have to know your court. This is small-town magistrate stuff in Michigan. WE know how it works. And it would NOT work to do what you suggest. The clerk called and the hearing had already been cancelled. Showing up anyway and demanding to be heard by the magistrate would have done nothing except tick off the magistrate. And then they would already be against you when your rescheduled date actually came up.
This is one of those "Do you want to be right or rich?" situations. You can argue that you are right all day long -- and the magistrate it just going to side with the tenant. Or you can understand how the court system works in this situation, be a little patient, and get your judgement a few weeks later.
There is a time to "stand up for yourself" and there is a time to work within the system -- sucky as it may be -- so that you get your judgement.
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 5:51 AM
Michele: As for your original question. Basically, most of what you said doesn't matter for your original question. Ignore all of the stuff about court, needles, and other crap -- because it doesn't matter to your question.
Your question is that you have the property for sale and want to show it to a buyer. The answer is: What does your lease say about showing the property in a situation like that? You SHOULD have a clause that dictates except what notice is required so that you can show the place to a perspective buyer.
If your lease did NOT have that, then when (or, preferably, BEFORE) you put it up for sale, you should have contacted each tenant with an addendum about how that would all be handled and had them sign it.
So -- does your lease say ANYTHING about this?
Also -- unless I missed it, you still haven't told us if this is a MTM agreement or a fixed-term lease. When does the lease end?
Also, you said "the building", not "the house" -- so is this a multi-unit? Does the buyer want everyone out so they can buy it empty? Or are they fine with paying tenants being in there and just this one is the problem? Have you shown the other units?
Give us more details and we can give you better advice. Most of what you have told us is about a court case that, to be honest, I think barely matters as far as this sale goes.
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 11:16 AM
I very much appreciate your comments. You sir, 'get' it!
We are currently on a month to month lease after the 12 month ran out. I've done it this way for years and the court confirmed that it's good.
My lease does allow for the sale, showing, etc - all the common sense stuff. However, in light of the fact that the tenant is in the hospital (and I am aware of that fact) I am NOT allowed by law to post on her door a 24 hour notice and then go in and show it.
This is a two unit building, so I suppose calling it a house makes more sense, but in my mind, that sounds like a single family dwelling, so I always say 'building'. Yes, the buyer prefers to have the tenants stay. The exception of course, is the downstairs tenant who is in the hospital. She has refused the realtor admission by not answering phone calls to set the walk-throughs, so neither I or the buyer wants her to stay.
We are pricing very low so he seems to be willing to wait until she is gone and we expect he will make an offer on this house as well as a side-by-side duplex we are selling. All other units have been shown and he expresses interest.
John, I hope I've answered all your questions. Thank you for being professional and making the effort to help. It is very much appreciated. The stress that comes with all this is too much at times. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 11:49 AM
You said: "in light of the fact that the tenant is in the hospital (and I am aware of that fact) I am NOT allowed by law to post on her door a 24 hour notice and then go in and show it."
I would again ask which Michigan law says this. Again, I have not found it. And I've looked. I may be missing it, but I usually know my Michigan laws when it comes to this sort of thing. Usually I'm the guy that others ask about Michigan-specific laws. :) So, I concede that I may have missed it -- but I'd really like to see it to confirm!
I think you are right to call it a building and not a "house". (I'd probably call it a "duplex" actually.)
In any case, if it were me, I'd want to re-confirm the Michigan law that says you can't show it just because she is in the hospital and you happen to know it. If such law exists, then we can look at other options. If said law does not exist, then I would give normal notice and then show it per my lease.
Also, just curious, where about in Michigan are you? I'm in the Mount Pleasant area.
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 12:27 PM
Personally, I live in Green Bay, WI, but the rental properties are in Escanaba. The beautiful Upper Peninsula!
I called my gal at the courthouse after your last message. She told me that she doesn't know if it's legal or not to enter while the tenant is in the hospital. At this point, my husband and I are thinking it would be best to not do anything. The girls in the upstairs apartments have told me enough to know that the apartment will not be in any respectful condition anyway so I dare not risk losing a sale. I realize I may lose it anyway because the buyer may very well run out of patience. It's a chance we'll have to take.
I could contact an attorney to get the law, but honestly, I'm out of energy with this one. I need to just step back and breathe.
I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but this girl lived peacefully in the upper apartment for 2 1/2 years with NO problems. Rent was one time or even early every month. Then, when she moved to the lower unit, it was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde!
I've been around and around with her on may things. Most recently (and why I moved for eviction) is that her heat went out in early February so she got a motel and didn't call me for 4 days! You can imagine the damages, right? Once I got the heat back on and damages repaired, I served her.
John, I sincerely thank you for sharing your knowledge. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 5:36 PM
Michelle and John was just relaying to you our experince. we have Magistrate judges also.
Maybe "I DON'T GET IT" and only John does-- so I got that.
Its great that you trust Heather but it's your property and you have a voice and need to let it be heard but you have to know the law--- not Heathers law the real law.
Heard all the excuses - car broke down on way to court, got called into work, got lost, over sleep yes even in the hospital or my grand mother died. Plaintiff is there judge is there WE HAVE A HEARING.
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2018 6:32 PM
myob: Thank you. --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2018 5:55 AM
Also, note that while Michigan law is often pretty poorly written when it comes to landlord/tenant stuff, it DOES have a pretty good Abandonment exception.
Basically, if a tenant is past due on rent -- and you have a reasonable belief that they have abandoned the property -- then you can re-take possession. Now, in THIS case, I'm not sure it is reasonable to believe that they have abandoned it when you know they are in the hospital. So, maybe it doesn't apply.
But, for future reference, what I do is post a letter on the front door that says that, per Michigan law, I believe the unit to have been abandoned. It says that if it has NOT been abandoned to contact me and then says that if I have not been contacted within 7 days, then I will consider the unit abandoned and re-take possession.
This works well for people that seem to vanish once in a while -- and you don't want to waste weeks/months doing an eviction when you're pretty sure they have skipped.
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2018 8:39 AM
You're right, Michigan does have a good law regarding abandoned property, but as you said, I cannot proceed that way because I know what I know.
I know several members on the police force and they are just as angry as I am about this because they know I'm a good landlord. The laws just favor the tenants.
At this point, we are just going to wait. There really is nothing more we can do. My blood pressure is up - I just came from the doctor - and I'm just trying to stay as calm as I can.
I appreciate your help more than you know.
Thank you --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2018 11:32 AM
Sounds good -- I wish you luck.
(I will state one last time that I don't think any such law preventing you from evicting while they are in the hospital exists though. And, similar to that, I don't think there is any law preventing you from SHOWING the place while they are in the hospital.)
At this point, we're not talking about a LOT of time until you can go back to court, so it probably isn't worth pushing it though, I agree.
Come back and tell us how it goes! :)
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 8:33 AM
I may be out of line here, but is it at all possible to have a private conversation with you? Sharing e-mail addresses perhaps? --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 9:03 AM
Sure -- you can reach me at my g-mail account by using this (but all put together):
(Hopefully that makes sense -- just trying to get around the spam bots that will pick it up if I write the email directly. :) Let me know if you don't know what I mean to do there.)
Eviction (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 6:50 PM
several moving parts here. when the tenant is in the hospital you need to go by and assure the place is secure and locked. all states allow you to enter in an emergency if the tenant is unavailable. you have an emergency...the tenant is in the EMERGENCY room.
drug overdoses don't last for weeks...force the issue.
the hospital story is hearsay...ask a lawyer. --76.176.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Apr 13, 2018 7:26 PM
Michele, here's advice I offer to all landlords who post on forum: I'd like to encourage you to continue to ask as many of your questions right on this forum. While John may be willing to offer great advice (and he is one of the best contributors), I'd also encourage you not to limit the feedback and assistance you can receive here by requesting help from only one specific contributor on a given topic.
It is true that several specific landlords like John provides excellent responses and you may have a tendency to like the responses of him in particular. However, if you only ask for advice or help from one particular contributor, you can lose out on additional feedback from others that could be extremely helpful to you as well.
And as a general rule, by asking your question online (instead of requesting email communication), this serves as an extra safeguard for you, because others can see the responses by others and alert you if a response from any one particular person may not be totally complete as it could, because no one contributor has all the answers on any one subject. So again, I would encourage you to ask your questions if at all possible right on the forum and also share your experiences with all. Openly sharing of questions and ideas has helped to make this forum so valuable to everyone for so many years. Thanks! --100.4.xx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 14, 2018 9:08 AM
Note that I agree with that. If it is something where the input of others would likely be good (or also the reading of someone else in the same situation later that goes searching for help), then please continue to post it here for all!
But, I also get that sometimes more specific/personal issues come up. So I'm happy to email/phone sometime if you need to also. All good!
I've learned tons here from others. I'm certainly not an expert in everything (or anything!? :) ).
Eviction (by Michele [MI]) Posted on: May 5, 2018 3:27 PM
Me again! I got busy with my tenant stuff and didn't get back here to read the latest responses. Thank you all so much for your help. John, I do appreciate your willingness to e-mail privately, but I have to agree with what was suggested and will continue to just post here. I just get weary from some of the responses.
Here's the update: We met on the 24th and the Magistrate gave her ANOTHER 10 days. I couldn't believe it! So I asked the Magistrate why in light of the fact that the city inspector had prohibited anyone from living there because of the unsanitary conditions. She took the copy of the picture that I gave her and went to see the judge. When she returned, she said that the judge agreed that another 10 days would be the decision.
You can imagine how upset I was, I'm sure. So, I went to the city inspector and asked him if he's ever heard of such a stupid ruling. The tenant had not paid her rent since January, after all. He was almost as upset as I was. I don't know what he did, but the next day I got a phone call from the court clerk telling me that they have moved the date up to THAT Friday instead - only 2 days away! I couldn't believe it!
So, I went along with the inspector and two police officers. The tenant did not show so I proceeded to change locks. Five days later, we rallied a crew. TWO 30-yard DUMPSTERS later, we had it cleaned out!
While the helpers were hauling stuff and taking what they wanted, my husband was working on some minor repairs because we had the buyer coming in the mid afternoon - remember him? He had been waiting for several weeks to see the property. My nephew, the Realtor made it happen and in the end, we wound up with an acceptable offer on this building as well as the other building we have in Escanaba! We close on June 1st and that will take us out of the Landlord game!
I promised an update when I could and you, my friends have just heard the SHORT version of the story.
I wish to sincerely thank you all for your invaluable advice on this and to apologize for being short with a couple of you. My sincere apologies. I have one more issue that I will need some advice on, but I'll post that separately. Again, THANK YOU! --76.238.xxx.xxx
Eviction (by John... [MI]) Posted on: May 5, 2018 4:20 PM
Thanks for the update! Glad things have worked out!