To small to succeed !
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To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Mar 12, 2018 8:11 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Livethedream [AZ]) Mar 12, 2018 8:24 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Tom [FL]) Mar 12, 2018 8:40 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by GKARL [PA]) Mar 12, 2018 8:41 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Gene [OH]) Mar 12, 2018 9:06 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Smokowna [MD]) Mar 12, 2018 10:24 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [KY]) Mar 12, 2018 11:48 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by JR [ME]) Mar 13, 2018 2:13 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Sparky [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 3:27 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Mar 13, 2018 4:05 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Mar 13, 2018 4:05 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Jen Z [CT]) Mar 13, 2018 4:14 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Ken [NY]) Mar 13, 2018 4:26 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Sisco [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 4:40 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 4:48 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Mar 13, 2018 4:54 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 5:05 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Robert J [CA]) Mar 13, 2018 5:13 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Mar 13, 2018 5:16 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 5:33 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 5:34 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Vee [OH]) Mar 13, 2018 5:43 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 5:56 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 6:18 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 6:19 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Mar 13, 2018 6:28 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by John... [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 6:31 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by plenty [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 6:46 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 7:06 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 7:11 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 7:19 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 7:30 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Deanna [TX]) Mar 13, 2018 7:33 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 7:44 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 7:45 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 7:47 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 7:47 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 7:50 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 7:51 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 7:58 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by RB [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 7:58 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 8:07 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by plenty [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 8:12 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Mar 13, 2018 9:15 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Ne [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 9:16 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by AllyM [NJ]) Mar 13, 2018 9:32 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Tom [FL]) Mar 13, 2018 11:04 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Mar 13, 2018 11:54 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Wilma [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 11:57 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by Barb [MO]) Mar 13, 2018 11:58 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Mar 13, 2018 12:47 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Mar 13, 2018 12:59 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by GKARL [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 3:33 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Mar 13, 2018 3:35 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 4:05 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 4:05 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 4:29 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by MikeA [TX]) Mar 13, 2018 5:51 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Mar 13, 2018 6:43 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Mar 14, 2018 8:05 AM
       To small to succeed ! (by mike [CA]) Mar 16, 2018 3:06 PM
       To small to succeed ! (by mike [CA]) Mar 16, 2018 3:13 PM


To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 8:11 PM
Message:

I own 30 properties in a low income area and cannot find ANYONE to help with maintenance & turnovers other than felons, drunks or druggies. The problem is it's not enough work to have a FT employee with benefits but it's too big to do it myself. Plus I am no longer living nearbly and work FT. I've tried getting PT help but they are harder because of no benefits. And no, I do not want to quit my professional job and do all the repairs. 30 years of that was enough.

I've tried social media, employment agencies, realtors,, etc and they all tell me no one wants to work. There's only one PM in the area and his reputation is terrible. In fact I've purchased plenty of their managed places cheap from owners who were sold a good story and lost them because the deplorable conditions only got them bad non-paying tenants to begin with.

I've worked hard doing most of the repairs myself with a drunk cash guy when I was able to be there to watch them.

30 years later, I can't do it all and have sacrificed plenty of my family years away building this up.

I've even talked to the housing agents and apparently there is only one larger LL who made this his FT job and has a cash helper. I've tried to convince contractors, from larger areas to take the work, but they won't bother for the small repairs here and there. They'll take a big remodel but not the repairs that pop up daily and they will tell you they'll do them if they can fit them in. Problem is these have time limits from the code guys and they never can do the fixes in time.

I offer pay about 2X the hourly rate of what FT workers make for similar employment & still nothing. The only ones that are interested and still have the baggage want CASH otherwise they'll loose welfare benefits. In fact, I offered a guy $20/hr as a 1099 but he wanted $8/hr cash only!.He felt I was ripping him off.

If I don't accept felons for tenants, then why would I risk them working to on my properties where theft and even worse could happen..

Of all things that happen in this business, I never imagined this would cause the beginning of the end of my business.

So now I ask how is anyone on this site finding competent help As many of you don't have employees.

The late great Leigh Robinson told me you need to have employees or you will have problems. He was a wise man as that is exactly where I'm at!

--24.115.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Livethedream [AZ]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 8:24 PM
Message:

There is none left. 10-15 years ago in the boom n bust I had no problem getting good help. At one point I had a payroll, etc. Now at nearly 62 I am having to get on the roof to paint stuff.

Last plumber I hired cost me $250 to replace two angle stops because I wasn't feeling well enough to lay under the sink.

Might be time to consider either management or reducing numbers. I'd think 30 houses would need a full timer. --47.216.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 8:40 PM
Message:

WOW Mike of PA you have a problem.

What IF you were to take the worst 10 units and do some updating or any maintenance that is needed. Place the 10 units on the market. Do a 1031 exchange on the units and purchase nicer units in a near by town.

OR hold the note / owner finance on the units and now the repair issues are the new owners problems. However you may foreclose on some of the units. --99.56.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 8:41 PM
Message:

Was just lamenting this here not even a week ago. Finding good handymen is a real challenge. It might get down to finding someone who wants to come to the US and sponsoring them. I'm exploring combining forces with other landlords so we have enough units together to create a job for someone. --207.172.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Gene [OH]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 9:06 PM
Message:

How about finding another landlord who does his own work also, but who would want to do the work part time as he works on his own properties also? --99.165.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 10:24 PM
Message:

I wish I were not busy with mine, I could work on yours.

Seems like I'm in PA every other weekend anyway.

You need to pull someone from out west or from the east...of Paris.

Your area isn't going to produce anyone fast enough to satisfy the code compliance.

Aside from that, a walk to the fire department to ask in person or the high school shop teacher.

Remember retired military make the best property managers. I wonder if the 70 plus crowd would want to come back 1/4 time.

(I have found people who talk about wanting extra income or more money in general are just talking. You need to spot the person out there who is working)

--108.48.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [KY]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 11:48 PM
Message:

If you have 30 units and most of them I am assuming are paid off then you can hire a full time employee. --173.239.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 2:13 AM
Message:

This is a tough situation. Maybe you canít have it all. Long distance rentals, full time job elsewhere. You donít want to put effort into managing and maintaining (understandable)

Forget hiring someone under the table or informally as you have been. There is a property maintainance (not management) company in your town that charges $50 to $100 an hour to do odd handyman jobs. Look in the yellow pages or ask around at the local Home Depot for answers to who this company is. If you have owned them for 30 years, yo have equity. Think about selling them, or some of them and enjoy the fruits of your labors. --64.222.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Sparky [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 3:27 AM
Message:

Maybe you should consider a property management company. --100.6.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:05 AM
Message:

El cheapo!$20.00 hr

My guy gets 1K a week whether he works 5 hrs or 40. He's a 1099. I supply the van and all equipment.

Do this in your head. If you hire a full time guy for 40 hr week YOU WILL find work for him. If you only work him for 35 hrs and pay him for 40--- you are now golden to him and loyality builds.

Preplan work. Ride by your places with him (he will feel trust building between you) and discuss what you would like done on the places during the lull of turning places. Let him participlate in your PLAN. Theres always HVAC to clean and check-- inside and out. Roofs to blow off, gutters to clean. Houses to wash. --99.103.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:05 AM
Message:

FREE RENT - there has got to be 1 tenant that will do things on his off time --24.34.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Jen Z [CT]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:14 AM
Message:

There is a site called "working couples" in which people like you advertise to couples willing to work on their properties (camp sites, apartments, etc) in exchange for free rent and a salary. Find a couple that is a combo handyman/rental agent and you might have a solution. --32.211.xxx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:26 AM
Message:

I agree with MYOB,you can find someone who wants a job but put him on the books legit is what I prefer,bums want cash,legit guys want to stay legit.You may need to buy a decent van.You will have to pay though,apparantly $20 hour isn't enough or you looking in the wrong places.You can give someone full time work if you always have a rehab going for a flip so he has somewhere to work when there are no general maintenance on the rentals --72.231.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:40 AM
Message:

I have changed up my approach in recent years. I have found that low skilled labor rate ($15 - $20 per hour ) is not much cheaper than a more highly skilled tradesman ($30- $35 hr).

HVAC guys and linemen looking for side work have worked out well. Plus, they have a lot of contact with other tradesmen.

The guys that I mention have wives, kids in college, own homes have lots of payments and pay their bills. They take on some side projects for extra $$.

Starting the conversation by giving the impression that they wonít be earning much money is a non starter.

--72.172.xxx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:48 AM
Message:

I understand where you're coming from. My post last week Growing Pains shared some similar problems.

A few local LLs and I have talked about pooling our resources to hire a full time maintain man. None of us has over 100 units, but together we could keep a guy busy.

Another thought I discussed with a buddy is to start up a handyman company. You are right that good ones are hard to find, so there is no doubt some major demand. When he's not busy being hired out to other small time LLs he'd be working on my places.

If those two ideas don't work for you, I agree with the plan to sell some and trade up to better areas. That too has been in my mind lately. --173.17.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:54 AM
Message:

After reading some other posts especially sisco post it brings this to mind for all you newbies out there.

Create a data base for your business-- not the tenant data base but a tradesman data.

We started ours on an Apple IIE (some here remember that super duper computer) its about 5 pages long and only has people on it that we deal with. Yes insurance man also but mainly trades people we've met and the one's who do good work with fair pricing. Each slot has the top guy (girl) to call and 2 or 3 back ups in case #1 isn't availalble.

My maint man to be honest is my son's tenant. The wife use to be our maint person but she got sick and he started filling in for her. WE DON'T discount the rent as part of the deal because we feel everyone likes a pay check-- there's just something about that. So no rent reduction-- paid once a week. --99.103.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:05 AM
Message:

If I were you, I'd either sell or quit my job.

I've learned a lot from you older folks on here and where I live and one of the major things is that you're on your own! You can't depend on anyone other than yourself and hiring help is harder than finding good tenants.

So what do I do with that info?

I do it myself and am thankful when I have a little help.

Everyone's position in life and pocket book is different.

For me, I'll be working on these places until 1 of 3 things happens: I sell, I die, or one of my kids takes it over.

I'd rather go find a house to flip with minimal effort than put time into training a goofbal how to caulk a tub and watch him screw it up and get mad and just do it myself anyway. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:13 AM
Message:

You can do a 1031 tax free exchange into manged property's like part owner ship in shopping centers, apartment complex and or office buildings. Then you sit back and get checks each month not phone calls with issues. --47.156.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:16 AM
Message:

NE PA I find your last post amazing and frankie I don't believe it. If you were really that way not wanting to train or teach others WHY DO YOU POST HERE?

You don't have to give up what you certainly love to do but there is satisfacting in finding someone to teach-- just like you do here. Work together training that person -- teach them about the OTHER side of this business.

I love the maint part of our business and will go to most jobs each day to meet our man-- on a turn property I'll go for 6 hrs or until its close to finish.

Think your missing out on a satisfing aspect of LLing help someone in a trade or learn a trade.

Sorry didn't mean to preach. --99.103.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:33 AM
Message:

Myob, I don't mind posting here because I like talking to other landlord's and investors of any caliber. That's different to me than handyman. Here at home, I am not a people person and would rather be at the units myself anyway. When I have flips, I like to have as much help around as I can.

Rentals are my domain. I don't want to train someone and then once I get them to where I want them, they leave and do something else and I have to start all over.

I'd rather learn how to get better myself so I can be more efficient. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:34 AM
Message:

economics 101 dictates you simply have to pay more, either directly in pay or indirectly otherwise.

If $20/hr is not enough, offer $25/hr, then $30/hr. At some point , maybe at $100/hr, maybe $200/hr, you WILL get someone you deem qualified. --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:43 AM
Message:

Depending on how far you went away the idea of selling may be the answer, I have a mix of multi and singles and I travel for work overseas at times - just leave them empty till I return if my step-daughter can't contact any previous good screened people, the good thing is when I acquire a place I replace all the plumbing to avoid the silly valves that won't close or drain busted inside a wall so my maintenance is very basic stuff - if you have not done this then make the improvement before you get farther than 5 minutes away. --76.188.xxx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:56 AM
Message:

You're not too small to succeed. Just because some people hire everything out doesn't necessarily make them more successful than you. It could make you less successful if it causes you to go broke in the process.

Did you live local when you were buying these units in the past? If you've moved, you're game has changed. I don't think paying $75 an hour to $25 an hour guys is your answer either. That would most likely accelerate your problems. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:18 AM
Message:

"I've tried to convince contractors, from larger areas to take the work, but they won't bother for the small repairs here and there. "

what kinds of small repairs are you refering to? I use the lowes in my area for faucet install, toilet install, vanity install, light fixture install. Rather than trying to get someone to repair a faucet or toilet, I just have it repaired --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:19 AM
Message:

should be "I just get it replaced" --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:28 AM
Message:

Jen Z [CT] Nailed it - greats source for your problems --24.34.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:31 AM
Message:

myob: My first PC was an Apple IIe (around age 13 or so). Then moved up to the IIgs -- what a beautiful machine!

- John...

--24.180.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:46 AM
Message:

If you are buying time until you can get back to doing it again... Pay more. Hire out of the phone book. Sears or JcPenney or Lowes for installs . perhaps you can make a connection with one if these already employed dudes who is more handi and willing. --99.203.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:06 AM
Message:

Market rates will vary, of course, but I've found for a qualified handyman that I don't have to babysit, $40/hour is about the minimum rate.

For all day jobs, my main guy charges $250. Buying in bulk helps, but if he has to travel then there's an extra charge.

I've found good help is worth it, but you're right, it's getting somewhat cost-prohibitive. I'm doing more "partial-remodels" in between tenants these days. Rather than fix the 1 or 2 items to get it rent-ready, I'll batch together enough repairs to where hopefully we won't need anything for the next 3 years or so. Replace shut off valves, repaint, caulking wet areas, weatherstripping, etc. Then I pay one $250 fee for a day's work vs. $40 here, $80 there, $120 in 6 months, etc.

Seems like it's the nickle and dime stuff that's killer. --173.17.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:11 AM
Message:

I should sell everything and just go work for landlord's for what you guys are ok paying! Holy cow!

Sid, $40 an hour?!?! That's more than skilled electricians and plumbers get here. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:19 AM
Message:

NE, you pay what you get! --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:30 AM
Message:

Not always David. You have to factor in the headache and drama factor as well. Something's justify the high per hour rate. Hvac, electrical, plumbing. Caulk the tub, touch up the paint and change the mini blinds doesn't justify the high rate.

The high priced guys typically start their days out at a business, load their trucks, schedule arrival, complete the job, print out a bill right from the truck and move on. They are often employees of larger firms.

The caulk the tub guy is $10-$15. Following your model of paying him $30-$45 to get him to show up will likely result in 1-2 things, you'll be hiring a big guy who isn't going to waste his time coming to do your small jobs like the OP stated already or the $30-$45/hr guy has a couple junkies working for him under the table that he will send in his place, pay them $10 and pocket the other $20. It happens all the time. I see it with my own eyes ALL THE TIME.

So to the OP's situation, he's going to overpay for help from a distance or hire cheap from a distance and babysit. Then when he comes in on the weekend to see the progress, sees thing messed up, his tools missing and empty beer cans and a pot roach on the counter.

So the OP has a decision to make: sell or move home.

You must endless mountains of money to simply say triple your pay to labor and all your problems go away. It just isn't that simple. Sounds great, isn't that easy. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:33 AM
Message:

When we first tried ll'ing, I was really frustrated. Coming from D/FW-- I used to have my choice of a thousand different plumbers, or a thousand different electricians, or ten thousand different handyguys. Here-- not so much. But I've still managed to find people. For the skilled stuff, you still don't have a whole lot of choice, but for the handyguy stuff, there's usually a few competent guys to choose from. But even with the competent guys, they're usually popular-- because they're competent-- and I realize I have to share. But, I do try to keep the relationship good, so that I get slotted in when I can, but I also try to keep in mind the level of skill of my guy, and have enough guys of varying skill in my pocket that I don't have to waste my guy I use for, say, a rafters-and-drywall job on a wiggly toilet?

Where do people go in your town to find a reliable go-to guy? Is there a lumberyard or a hardware store where people put out their cards? Ask someone who works there who they'd recommend-- because there's always reputations in such a small circle of people, and anyone can print up a business card that says anything... but they all know who shows up like clockwork for the first month, and then falls off the planet; or who needed to go re-do so-and-so's work, because he didn't have a clue what he was doing; or whatever.

If you're in a relatively populated area, have you tried something like Takl or Angie's List?

(I started off with a TRS-80 around '82 or '83! I did a lot of other stuff with it, but my favorite game was Santa Paravia!) --96.46.xxx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:44 AM
Message:

NE, be sure to read the whole post, my friend! $40 hour is for a mini-job like show up, fix leaky toilet, out the door in 60 minutes or less. This includes his drive time.

If I pay for a day's work ($250), it goes down to $31/hour, which for a guy who knows what he's doing, has his own tools/truck, and requires no babysitting. He's also 100% legit, 1099-MISC, so he's paying his taxes.

I have tried $20-$25/hour guys, but they need supervision and are flaky at best. They only want cash and no 1099. --173.17.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:45 AM
Message:

Re: caulk the tub guy

Plumbers will caulk if you pay them. I was on vacation and had to get a plumber (from a big local company) to diagnose a leak , and then fix , which was caulking around the escutcheon. He charged $99 service fee to come out, then $40 for the caulking. So YES!, you can absolutely get a pro to come out to caulk, it will less if you bundle it with other plumbing repairs --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:47 AM
Message:

Sid, gotcha.

David, $40 to caulk something? Really? I can understand bundle it since he's there already. But not calling someone out specifically to do just that. It makes absolutely no sense. --50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:47 AM
Message:

Btw, my main guy does plumbing and light electric. H won't run a new 220 V line or change out a service pannel, but pretty much anything else.

For plumbing, he can redo a whole house to PEX and PVC. Same rate. For $31/hour, that's not bad. I'll pay him $500 labor plus purchase $100 in supplies to completely re-plumb a small house. The local plumbing shops START at $2000, and that's if there's nothing complicated. --173.17.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:50 AM
Message:

NE, the magic hand of the free market does not care about making sense.

If I need something caulked ASAP, as opposed to preventive maintenance, then I pay what I have to. But I try to plan the maintenance to avoid this ... --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:51 AM
Message:

That should be INVISIBLE hand! --12.47.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:58 AM
Message:

David, that's understandable. You're talking about 2 different things. Emergencies and routine maintenance. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference!

I pay a premium for emergencies as well. As we all should if it's hired out.

Mike isn't talking simply about emergencies.

Well, we had some snow last night so I'm off to shovel a few common area sidewalks at the multi's, so I don't have to pay someone $150.

--50.107.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:58 AM
Message:

Simply Amazing.

--47.35.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 8:07 AM
Message:

Before I go shovel, I'm going to make one more post. And if you're sensitive, don't read it. Mike, I think you could further asked the question "Am I a failure?". Does anyone here think that Mike is a failure? He wrote that he is too small to succeed in the form of a question. To me, that means that Mike thinks that he's not big enough to keep doing what he's doing. I say nonsense.

Mike, the ability to hire everything out has nothing to do at all with whether or not you are a successful investor or landlord. Hiring everything out is touted here over and over and over. As if it's the ultimate goal of what we do. That is total BS! I know very successful landlords here locally in flesh and bone that do almost everything themselves. Are they not succesful?

So don't for a second think that you were not successful because you're having a tough time finding contractors. Just change your game up a little bit. Don't let the status quo bring you down, because sometimes it can. Sometimes that freedom in our lives comes with a little dirt under our fingernails. --174.201.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 8:12 AM
Message:

you are avoiding the time that it takes to find someone to fix stuff because you don't have the time to devote to doing it. Find the time. Keep calling. It's frustrating, but keep asking. network... just don't make me have to drive up there for lunch! --173.127.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by David [MI]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 9:15 AM
Message:

Ne, Mike has a full time job. If he quit , he do everything himself --166.137.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by Ne [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 9:16 AM
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Right, and that is why he has to make a decision. He's playing a new game with the old set of rules. --174.201.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 9:32 AM
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I paid a handyman who had his own business and insurance for many years. Also contractors that are small had time some days from their larger jobs. What I would suggest for you is to find a handy guy and help him to become an independent contractor on his own. Have you looked for independent handmen around your area? There are two or three around here. If you sit in the parking lot at Home Depot you will see a lot of small vans come in with names on the side and some of these folks are subcontractors who might like some of your work from day to day. You can find a small contractor who would be glad for the work but you have to find them in the store HD or Lowes or go to a lumber yard and ask if you have any actual lumber yards left. We do here. Also get an electrician to do electric and a plumber to do plumbing. You will see them at HD also --69.141.xxx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 11:04 AM
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Mike of PA, There may be a little burn-out too.

Time to re-energize!!! This year at your job you have vacation time. Take two weeks set up and plan your work on your vacant unit. Take a blow up bed or mattress and stay in the unit you are repairing. Repair walls. prime and Paint it: ceiling, walls, trim windows, trim and door, kitchen cabinets and vanities, replace counter tops, install new 2" faux wood blinds for all the windows. Replace all the flooring with click vinyl from Lowes, Home Depot or Lumber liquidators. STAY FOCUSED! Once you are done with it call 3 realtors in to give you a CMA. IF you sell it hold the note on it. Once it gets sold move on to the next unit. Until you get the units to a manageable number or decide to buy in a higher end area. AND clean the basement repair any leaks or dampness (buy a dehumidifier), and paint the walls and floor in the basement. --99.56.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 11:54 AM
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What if you sold all your houses and held the notes. Still getting income, but not having to work as hard for it. --108.69.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 11:57 AM
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Mike, I forget - where are your rentals again? If Montgomery or Bucks County, I may be able to refer someone to you. --71.175.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 11:58 AM
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I have one remodeling guy that does a lot of larger jobs, but will sell me a day every couple of months. Little stuff piles up until he can get to it. This week, he has installed an ADA grab bar in a shower (including cutting into the wall behind the shower to add reinforcing), repaired some general electrical in 3 places, and a couple of small plumbing jobs. He works for himself and is a craftsman. Charges me $30 and hour these days, but well worth it. He redid a lot of work in my own home a year ago.

If it is an urgent little job, sometimes he says he can't do it. Sometimes he can squeeze an hour or two while some drywall mud dries in another location.

There are others, but they require hunting. Ask at the hardware store. Not Lowe's, look for the locally owned Ace, Do-It-Best, or similar. --64.251.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 12:47 PM
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John MI so I wasn't the only one with the 2E? 2 disks man we were in heaven?????? 128K not the token 64K like the commodore.

John true story-- after using the apple for a few months I told my brother, who made a fortune in the stock market with Citibank-- years ago I know. I wanted to put all I had into apple stock. He told me Apple isn't going to last-- IBM is the big player and Apple will go by the wayside. Don't even get an apple machine because no one will be writing programs for Apple.

Lord what have I done? Why didn't I listen to myself?

Off topic I know but I haven't cried about it for a week.

How much to pay for work? Slab leak and water is shooting out the front under the slap. It was this past winter-- called from my database the best man i could plumbing wise-- his guys dug a trench from the front big enough to find the leak about 4 feet in. Layed there on soaking wet cardboard in 25 degree weather and put a union on it. Cost me 450.00. took the guys about 1.5 hrs. Fact is I would have paid 900.00. Same company replaced all the cast iron piping under a 2 bath home in the crawl space with PVC- cost 1K. Every drain is now plastic and not 40 year old cast iron. --99.103.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 12:59 PM
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My advice is to sell them all and 1031 into properties right near you. You can combine 3 of those into one replacement. Sell 30 and end up with 10 in a better area close enough for you to take care of them.

Better houses means better tenants, higher rent, fewer repairs.

Pay more for work? I had a plumber out to repair a leak and he charged me $500 and it took him less than 5 minutes. There has to be a cap on how much repairs cost before repair costs put you out of business. --174.216.x.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 3:33 PM
Message:

I have a friend of mine who just most of his properties. He ran about 16 units and did all of the maintenance himself. He would physically go to each tenant to collect as well. That meant rushing back from vacation to make the collection rounds and deferred maintenance if he was too tired or just couldn't get to it. Eventually, it got to the point where he couldn't do the stuff physically and sold. He made out well on the sales though.

There's no one approach and we have to do what aligns with our interests, abilities and time. For me, performing maintenance other than the simplest things is simply not sustainable. For one, I don't enjoy it and more importantly, I don't have the time. This is why my strategy revolves around scaling so there's enough money to pay someone to do the stuff. And that drives what kind of investments I'm focused on----which is why I go with multi-family. That doesn't eliminate the challenges finding good help, but at least it limits the effort to one place which means more efficient management for me.

I've got good guys for HVAC, plumbing and electrical. I don't even need a bench for these guys as they're so reliable and aren't excessive in their charges. As someone mentioned, one can offload stuff onto HD and Lowes as well. The handyman stuff is where I have challenges. I found a guy who's knowledgeable, but has mobility issues due to a spinal operation. He's mobile enough for certain tasks. I also have a former tenant who I'm going to try out as well. But with both of these guys, I have to be there with them. I have a guy who does stuff like walls and etc. He's decent but often busy. The key for me is covering the emergency stuff like the plumbing, HVAC and electrical. Often the my handyman projects aren't urgent and what I'm trying to do is stage those projects with an on-going maintenance program to get ahead of the curve so they don't become emergencies. Also, it's important to know the limitations of people from a management standpoint. Sometimes, these handymen don't know their own limitations and what they can't do or can't do well. Realizing that is important for me as my expectations are controlled and there's a better match of talent with what's needed. Hopefully if my screening is solid, turnovers are minimal and the places aren't wreaked when there are turnovers. My main thing, and the only practical choice I have, is managing the parts and becoming better at that. --64.121.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 3:35 PM
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MYOB: In 1980 my mother bought 1,000 shares of Apple. In 1985 Steve Jobs just quit and the stock dropped to $2/share so my mother went all in and told me and my brother we needed to buy Apple. My very first stock purchase was 5,000 shares of Apple. When we started buying some properties in late 2006 I had considered selling Apple to fund some of the houses. It was at $20 share then. My mother and brother were convinced it would be a huge mistake and told me they would carry the mortgages for the value of my stock. When it came to stocks I always followed her advice so I held on to Apple.

Mom has since passed away but now when dividends are issued my brother makes me take him and the family on vacation.

--71.75.xx.xx




To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:05 PM
Message:

Wow, alot of responses, let me state a few more things...

I also own some properties near me which are worth 3 to 4 times what the 30 are worth. On these I continue to do ALL maintenance, etc. because they are close by.

I do all the property management on all my properties close and far. So with that, working FT, managing these, raising a family, etc there just physically isn't time in the day to be onsite for the 30 properties.

Adding injury to insult, my spouse is battling a serious illness and I have minor children to take care of.

I absolutely don't feel like a failure, quite opposite.

The 1031 would not work for buying in my area because the market is way overpriced to make the numbers work.

If all businesses had this problem there would Only be local mom and pop stores, so what am I missing.

--24.115.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Mike [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:05 PM
Message:

Wow, alot of responses, let me state a few more things...

I also own some properties near me which are worth 3 to 4 times what the 30 are worth. On these I continue to do ALL maintenance, etc. because they are close by.

I do all the property management on all my properties close and far. So with that, working FT, managing these, raising a family, etc there just physically isn't time in the day to be onsite for the 30 properties.

Adding injury to insult, my spouse is battling a serious illness and I have minor children to take care of.

I absolutely don't feel like a failure, quite opposite.

The 1031 would not work for buying in my area because the market is way overpriced to make the numbers work.

If all businesses had this problem there would Only be local mom and pop stores, so what am I missing.

--24.115.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 4:29 PM
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Mike,

I understand your frustration but don't use it as a cop out - use it as an opportunity. Are you the only person where you live and invest at that is too small for a FT employee? If the answer is there are other investors about the same size as you, why not split a FT employee 50/50% with another investor.

That or outsource specific task to specific folks and keep a running tickler of folks that are keepers. You need to outsource more and work work ON the business not in the business

What part of Pa are you in? Have I met you at ACRE? --24.101.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 5:51 PM
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Here's some ideas on where to find trades people. Maybe you can find something that works:

Visit the local Vo tech school and talk to the building trades teacher. He might be looking for summer work or know someone that is. Teachers are always looking to fill part of their summer.

Drive around and look for trades people around town, ask if they know anyone looking for after hours work.

Talk to the lumberyard folks, they always know someone.

Put a gig on craigslist and see if you get any hits.

Angies list or home advisor.

Stop by the union halls and ask around.

ASk at the landlord association meeting.

Finding people is about networking! A friend of a friend. Once you have one good one, they can recommend 10 more. --50.26.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 6:43 PM
Message:

If the market place is too hot for 1031 exchange then possibly you could consider doing a 1031 into a NNN property in an area that isn't as hot.

The other option is to set up installment sales sale and slowly downsize your problems since the market place is hot. --24.101.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
Message:

Hi

I am going through a similar situation. I have an awesome guy that I have been using for the last 5-8 years. Before that I had someone who I had used for even longer. When the first guy moved on I thought the world was ending but then I found the other person who worked at a property management firm full-time and then for me 0-25 hours per week. He is now justly retiring to Florida.

I also use "people ready" but they send me what I call "odd ducks" that are only good as laborers.

I do not want to bum anyone out but one of my biggest fears is being sued by a worker that gets hurt. If you have nothing to lose paying cash is fine. If you have something to lose (any net worth at all) workers comp is necessary in my opinion. The really wealthy guys I have talked to will not screw around with that (ZERO tolerance). Trying to find a handyman etc. with comp is much harder. However it is a risk you should at least be aware of. Remember too liability insurance is NOT the same as comp. and your insurance will never cover you if you are sued by a hurt worker you were paying cash. Attorneys on TV during the day target these injured workers. --73.61.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
Message:

Hi

I am going through a similar situation. I have an awesome guy that I have been using for the last 5-8 years. Before that I had someone who I had used for even longer. When the first guy moved on I thought the world was ending but then I found the other person who worked at a property management firm full-time and then for me 0-25 hours per week. He is now justly retiring to Florida.

I also use "people ready" but they send me what I call "odd ducks" that are only good as laborers.

I do not want to bum anyone out but one of my biggest fears is being sued by a worker that gets hurt. If you have nothing to lose paying cash is fine. If you have something to lose (any net worth at all) workers comp is necessary in my opinion. The really wealthy guys I have talked to will not screw around with that (ZERO tolerance). Trying to find a handyman etc. with comp is much harder. However it is a risk you should at least be aware of. Remember too liability insurance is NOT the same as comp. and your insurance will never cover you if you are sued by a hurt worker you were paying cash. Attorneys on TV during the day target these injured workers. --73.61.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by Peter [NH]) Posted on: Mar 13, 2018 7:18 PM
Message:

Hi

I am going through a similar situation. I have an awesome guy that I have been using for the last 5-8 years. Before that I had someone who I had used for even longer. When the first guy moved on I thought the world was ending but then I found the other person who worked at a property management firm full-time and then for me 0-25 hours per week. He is now justly retiring to Florida.

I also use "people ready" but they send me what I call "odd ducks" that are only good as laborers.

I do not want to bum anyone out but one of my biggest fears is being sued by a worker that gets hurt. If you have nothing to lose paying cash is fine. If you have something to lose (any net worth at all) workers comp is necessary in my opinion. The really wealthy guys I have talked to will not screw around with that (ZERO tolerance). Trying to find a handyman etc. with comp is much harder. However it is a risk you should at least be aware of. Remember too liability insurance is NOT the same as comp. and your insurance will never cover you if you are sued by a hurt worker you were paying cash. Attorneys on TV during the day target these injured workers. --73.61.xx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Mar 14, 2018 8:05 AM
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the VO tech comment made me think. Our area HVAC company offers continuous ed classes. I've sent my guy to them. Many participants are working for Apartment complexes. Would be a great time to enroll yourself and locate the best one-- offer him / her a job. --99.103.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Mar 16, 2018 3:06 PM
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go to any AA step house and find someone with long term sobriety and offer a free rent situation. many of my best tradesmen are recovering types. painter...15 years. carpet guy...10 years. plumber...5 years. those places are FULL of folks that have been chastened by life and have deeply reflected. i pay fair wages which permit quality tools and fresh saw blades. i demand that their trucks be clean, their tattoos covered and that they have a wristwatch a cell phone and a checking account. i also like the roll-up into nicer or closer prop's idea. your diversification is great but it spreads you too thin --76.176.xxx.xxx




To small to succeed ! (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Mar 16, 2018 3:13 PM
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with 30 doors you most certainly have enough work for a full time guy at elast two or three days a week. an ad on craigslist for a reliable veteran or semi-retired guy will surely bring a few good ones your way. and stop at the local hardware store too and ask --76.176.xxx.xxx





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