Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Mar 11, 2018 5:54 AM|
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Mar 11, 2018 5:56 AM
Split utility bill (by Still Learning [NH]) Mar 11, 2018 7:10 AM
Split utility bill (by AllyM [NJ]) Mar 11, 2018 8:08 AM
Split utility bill (by LindaJ [NY]) Mar 11, 2018 9:26 AM
Split utility bill (by Vee [OH]) Mar 11, 2018 10:09 AM
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Mar 11, 2018 11:35 AM
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Mar 11, 2018 12:29 PM
Split utility bill (by WMH [NC]) Mar 11, 2018 1:34 PM
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Mar 11, 2018 2:49 PM
Split utility bill (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Mar 11, 2018 6:25 PM
Split utility bill (by Laura [MD]) Mar 12, 2018 12:25 AM
Split utility bill (by WMH [NC]) Mar 12, 2018 4:23 AM
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Mar 12, 2018 5:00 AM
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Mar 12, 2018 5:28 PM
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 5:54 AM
Recently acquired a 3 family that runs on a single steam boiler. Instead of jacking up rents, I was looking for the possibility of billing each unit 1/3 of the monthly utility bill. (For the specific area, section 8 is my goto tenant pool, and local housing only allow $50 for having heat and hot water included)
I remember some LLs here do that.. Wonder if anyone has been challenged in the court..
I ran this idea by my eviction attorney/RE investor, he doesn't think that it will fly since you dont have sub-meters to prove usage. Methinks, write an utility addendum and tenant signs to agree pay 1/3 the gas usage.
One possibility is, tenant doesn't pay the bill and drag it to court. Does that classify the property/me as utility provider, therefore, clash with some kind of law? --71.232.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 5:56 AM
The obvious option/costly one is, put in 3 separate systems.. ($5K/system, I can DIY. There is only one gas meter, just don't feel like to go that route yet).. --71.232.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 7:10 AM
There is a system called rubs, ratio utility billing system, but I don't know specifics. My concern would be making sure it was in the lease and section 8 was aware of it and approved it. --24.61.xxx.xx
Split utility bill (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 8:08 AM
No one does that who has common sense. Jack up the rents. If you don't you will have people fighting with each other for using too much heat. --69.141.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 9:26 AM
Do you have one thermostat control, then get a locked one, set it and raise the rent to more than cover your cost of heat. If they have separate thermostats, even if they were the exact same unit, one may have it set to 64 degrees and lots of sweaters and blankets, the other has it at 78 and wearing shorts. Still not fair to split it 3 ways.
If tenants are not paying for heat, they don't care whether windows are open or it is too warm. But to not meter what each is using is probably not going to fly. --96.236.xx.xx
Split utility bill (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 10:09 AM
Me thinks any lawyer from the system of free ones that HUD clients have access to would chew this up faster than a slice of toast with or without jelly then ask you to refund the HUD and tenant money that was issued while the tenant lived under a irrational contract. Not a place for me to experiment. --76.188.xxx.xx
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 11:35 AM
It's one system, one thermostat. I am concerned about what Vee said, therefore, looking for case law ish stuff to cover my creativity.
If I can find regular folks to rent to, why would I bother with the extra hassle or housing inspection and annual re-inspection.. --71.232.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 12:29 PM
Worst case scenario is that a tenant could sue you for being over-charged for usage that cannot be accurately measured without separate meters. He would get a free, crafty, legal aide lawyer (paid by our taxpayer dollars) and then a stickler judge would make you pay back both tenants more than they ever could have conceivably lost in this type of shared utility arrangement.
The risk is high but the probability is low.
Ironically, my lawyer laid this out for me when I asked about it, and then he said he splits the utility bill it in one of his own properties.
I guess the gamble is worth the savings to him.
Let's search for a precedent or ruling on this matter. --99.203.xx.xx
Split utility bill (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 1:34 PM
In NC, whatever is not explicitly against the law is allowed in the lease, where all can agree to it.
I don't know about HUD, but for regular people we can indeed write in the lease that utilities are split 50/50 or 33/33/33 if we want to.
The trouble comes up when you get Mr. Frugal living next to Ms. Extravagance, and every time he sees her windows open on a cold day he is going to get resentful and soon everyone starts to complain.
We get around this by installing SUB-meters off the main, and DH has to go read them monthly and then figure out the bills based on the main bill. It's kind of a pain but it's once a month and he doesn't care, it gets him over the properties, even if outside, to check them out. We've discovered interesting things that way.
We install mini-splits or through-wall heat pumps in each unit and let everyone set their own comfort, though.
We have 4 properties (8 units) that work like this with power and water, and a few others with just water. --50.82.xxx.xx
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 2:49 PM
I searched for precedents. It seems legal to share one meter for multiple apartments and to split the utility bill if each party is made aware, and agree to the split. The split needs to be reasonably equitable based on space and/or number of people.
WMH - What is the cost to install submeters for water and electric? --99.203.xx.xx
Split utility bill (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Mar 11, 2018 6:25 PM
Steam is least efficient of any hot water system. Consider converting to forced hot water where the cost can be reduced by using commercial pex heat pipe. Once the system is separated out then when funds are available three separate boilers could be installed. Three heating zones first then three wall mounted high efficiency gas boilers can be installed where the venting can be vented directly through the wall using CVPC where no chimney is required. --147.194.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 12:25 AM
We have RUBs. The process is you have to do a 'study' of usage. I don't know the exact details, but it is complicated. We had a local tenant advocacy group challenge RUBs charges in a big complex. Went on a long time and eventually the complex won, but they spent lots of money on lawyers. --108.51.xxx.xxx
Split utility bill (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 4:23 AM
The water meters are about $85, and the power meters are about $300. The main meters measure the total usage, the additional meters measure the second unit's usage.
We believe there are internet-enabled meters, but then you've got the hassle of connecting to the tenant's internet, so we go with the cheaper models that require he physically read the meters.
Actually in a pinch, if you had good cooperation from your tenants you could ask them to take a picture of the meter and send it to you on the right day.
We have a duplex where the water is metered but we still just split it 50/50 because it's easier and it's a really small bill. However we are prepared if anyone ever does make a fuss about that! --50.82.xxx.xx
Split utility bill (by Kate [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 5:00 AM
Thank you WMH --99.203.xx.xxx
Split utility bill (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Mar 12, 2018 5:28 PM
Thanks Kate for the research.. I like to take chances as long as it is not too crazy against the law.. --71.232.xxx.xxx