tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 6, 2018 8:46 AM|
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 6, 2018 8:48 AM
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 6, 2018 8:51 AM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 6, 2018 8:55 AM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 6, 2018 8:58 AM
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 6, 2018 9:04 AM
tenant injury (by JR [ME]) Jan 6, 2018 9:28 AM
tenant injury (by JR [ME]) Jan 6, 2018 9:32 AM
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Jan 6, 2018 9:40 AM
tenant injury (by Nicole [PA]) Jan 6, 2018 10:08 AM
tenant injury (by CJ [MO]) Jan 6, 2018 10:08 AM
tenant injury (by Richard [MI]) Jan 6, 2018 10:25 AM
tenant injury (by Richard [MI]) Jan 6, 2018 10:31 AM
tenant injury (by Barb [MO]) Jan 6, 2018 1:26 PM
tenant injury (by Robert J [CA]) Jan 6, 2018 2:01 PM
tenant injury (by Sparky [PA]) Jan 6, 2018 2:11 PM
tenant injury (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Jan 6, 2018 5:12 PM
tenant injury (by AllyM [NJ]) Jan 6, 2018 5:31 PM
tenant injury (by Robin [WI]) Jan 6, 2018 6:00 PM
tenant injury (by LindaJ [NY]) Jan 6, 2018 6:29 PM
tenant injury (by Julie [KS]) Jan 6, 2018 7:02 PM
tenant injury (by RR78 [VA]) Jan 6, 2018 7:32 PM
tenant injury (by Vee [OH]) Jan 6, 2018 8:22 PM
tenant injury (by David [KY]) Jan 7, 2018 6:07 AM
tenant injury (by Barb [MO]) Jan 7, 2018 12:22 PM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 7, 2018 12:54 PM
tenant injury (by Sparky [PA]) Jan 7, 2018 1:52 PM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 7, 2018 2:18 PM
tenant injury (by rentON [PA]) Jan 7, 2018 4:07 PM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Jan 8, 2018 5:01 AM
tenant injury (by Ken [NY]) Jan 8, 2018 5:03 AM
tenant injury (by mike [CA]) Jan 15, 2018 3:47 PM
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:46 AM
We had a tenant severely injure themselves last night. Long story short –tenant unconscious when paramedics arrived and lots of blood remains on the floor. Tenant now in hospital, and still unconscious. Unclear what happened but, police confirm no attack and no intended suicide.
I spoke with Tenants daughter this morning and she called “Aftermath” for clean-up.
Aftermath telling me – “Apartment is now uninhabitable due to biohazard and Landlord is responsible for cleanup cost ”.
I objected to their interpretation of responsibility but, agreed to meet Aftermath with the tenants family at the apartment this afternoon.
My thought is to assist the family with obtaining clean up quote(s) and approve access to property for doing so.
Any advice, next steps and or precautions on liability appreciated
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:48 AM
Do you have a copy of their renter's insurance declaration page? --76.120.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:51 AM
Also, I'd be in touch with your lawyer first thing on Monday. I would also avoid discussing this with the family, unless they are on the lease. --76.120.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:55 AM
Typo Correction – one tenant injured them self --73.187.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:58 AM
yes, we have the declaration page --73.187.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 9:04 AM
That's good. Keep it close. Again, with something as out-of-the-ordinary like this I would get legal advice before doing anything.
It's unfortunate at all that it happened, of course, but on the weekend makes it tougher.
As far as liability with the cleanup, but I don't know why that would be your responsibility, unless something that was your fault caused the incident. I doubt that that's the case. --76.120.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 9:28 AM
Something is off here. Is there a police report? If so, get a copy today. Is there anything amiss in the unit, like a broken stair, or railing, or other clue of how the “severe injury” occurred. I’d want an answer to this before agreeing to anything.
In the spirit of decency, I would offer to pay for the cleanup (to save the value of the rental unit, too. I would offer sympathy to the family, but absolutly not have any discussion of cause, liability, etc. Tell them you are turning this matter over to your insurance and they insist all discussion go through them. I would notify your insurance if, after this meeting, you think you have liability. If you don’t think you are liable, then i would not notify your insurance right away. Please keep us updated. --98.13.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 9:32 AM
P.S., you can safely clean up a big pile of blood safely with $20.00 worth of rubber gloves, safety glasses, a disposable smock, sponge, bucket, Mr. Clean, and throw it all away in a garbage bag or two.
Companies like Aftermath prey on people’s fears. --98.13.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by Jeff [CO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 9:40 AM
Let's say a tenant cuts himself by accident with a knife in the kitchen, with the results that you mentioned. Very plausable here.
If that's the case, legally speaking that would most likely be the tenant's fault.
I wouldn't involve your insurance company unless you are sure that you are at fault. That could be opening a can of worms.
With something like this, legal advice is your best bet.
tenant injury (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 10:08 AM
you couldn't pay me enough to meet with or deal with a company like that. blood is blood. unless he is oozing HIV or something else communicable, it's no big deal.
I agree with JR above. --72.95.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by CJ [MO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 10:08 AM
What is aftermath? How to enforce rental insurance?
tenant injury (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 10:25 AM
Don't move too quickly. Just because someone else says something does not make it so. If clean it up myself after ambulance and medics cleared scene. Police said no attack is good. Tenant probably fell and hit their head on furniture. It happens. Don't assume it's your fault. Take lots of pictures.
What did the family and others say? --23.121.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 10:31 AM
Also, only a jury/judge determines responsibility and liability. Not a cleanup company hoping to make a big payday. To them if someone had a cold and sneezed they would want to declare a biohazard. Take their bid and send them away. --23.121.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 1:26 PM
Oh, good grief.
Do you know how many times I have cleaned up blood, urine, poo, vomit, etc?
Pellets to soak up any liquid, gloves and lab apron and safety glasses if desired. Sweep, then mop, then scrub if needed.
If carpet, might need to take up carpet if soaked into pad. Otherwise, just clean and sanitize the floor. --64.251.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 2:01 PM
I had a tenant who would not listen. They had shoes with leather soles that would cause them to slip and fall. We are talking about a 70 year old women who had to dress to kill, although with slippery shoes she was only trying to kill herself.
So I purchased designer bathroom mats to put around the toilet, sink and tub/shower floor areas. This tenant took these three mats outside to hose them off and let dry. They she washed the bathroom floor and slid while trying to sit down on the toilet. She also installed a cabinet above the toilet without my permission -- hit her head on the handles and needed stitches.
I was sent the ambulance bill and her out of pocket medical expenses. She did not put in a claim to her renters insurance either.
So I had my attorney send a letter to all parties and then had to sue in small claims court. With pictures of the mats outside and a wet bathroom floor and pictures of her shoe collection, it was easy to win my case....
So the next time a dangerous situation presented itself, I issue a 5 day notice to cure violation or quit.
Another tenant jacked up his car and without a stand went under the vehicle to do an oil change. To save $15, they put their life in danger. I stopped that tenant and would not let him crawl under his car on my property without car stands -- like $25 a set to Kmart, Walmart, Costco.... --47.156.xx.xx
tenant injury (by Sparky [PA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 2:11 PM
Why would Tenant's daughter call a crime scene/biohazard cleaning company instead of just cleaning up the mess? If Tenant's daughter requested the Aftermath quote, I would expect Tenant's daughter to pay for the services she sought to engage. Does Tenant's daughter have a friend or relative who works at Aftermath that she is trying to throw some business to?
tenant injury (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 5:12 PM
I second JR's advice to clean up with rubber gloves. Remove all visible biological fluids with paper towels or disposable rags. For the daughter's peace of mind, soak area with bleach/ water solution and let stand for 20 minutes to kill HIV and/or Hepatitis. If the blood is on carpet, you may need to replace the carpet and pad.
How does the daughter think that hospitals clean up their biological fluid spills? --98.146.xxx.xx
tenant injury (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 5:31 PM
OK, I would probably use a specialty service. There was one down the street a few months ago where there was a stabbing near the two four plexes I used to own, in one of the other eight four plexes on the street.
I would however, charge it to the tenant's security deposit when they leave. Sounds like tenant fell and smacked his head on something, gashed it, and bled a lot until he was found. I would bet on a kitchen cabinet corner to do that kind of damage, and I would bet he was drunk or on some kind of pain meds, and he may be on blood thinners to cause that kind of mess. you can pay but get the tenant to pay for the damage. --73.33.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 6:00 PM
Tenant is responsible for keeping the property clean. I can't see any reason why you should have to pay for the tenant's cleanup costs. I'd explain to the daughter that the lease does not include cleaning services and that she is welcome to provide those services herself or pay for them out of pocket. Bet she buys herself a pair of rubber gloves. --204.210.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 6:29 PM
Clean up is really on the tenant. If they cut themselves otherwise and bled, they would clean that up. There may not be any liability on your part for the accident. There are many instances of people losing consciousness and falling, which is where they injure themselves. Yes maybe they were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, but this can also happen with a health condition. It is not that uncommon. Sometimes a battery of tests gives no conclusive evidence of why they "fainted" and it never happens again.
If the tenant is coming back to the unit, it isn't a bio hazard to them. If they are not coming back, just give it a good cleaning and rent.
tenant injury (by Julie [KS]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 7:02 PM
Had a tenant apparently attempt suicide the Sunday of Thanksgiving week-end. I didn't get a phone call about it until the following Wednesday.
An aunt calls (who is also an insurance agent) & wants the owner to cover the cost of bio clean up with his insurance. Now I'm feeling bad for this kid but what?? She had already arranged for disaster clean up, they were to be there the next day. I didn't commit to anything regarding costs. Frankly, not my circus, not my monkeys other than the unit needs cleaned up & neither I nor the owner is responsible for it.
The hubs meets the disaster guy. Quote is $5K+ to clean up. Small area, blood spatter, tissue on corner of carpet & walls.
We allowed access for clean up. We've kept our mouths shut & haven't offered to pay for anything & haven't been re-contacted to pay for anything. Owner is a little miffed that they expected him to pay for clean up. Parents continue to pay his rent & utilities. No notice to terminate early at this point but the lease is coming up for renewal & now I'm probably gonna be the bad guy by contemplating not inviting him to stay.
tenant injury (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 7:32 PM
"Aftermath telling me – “Apartment is now uninhabitable due to biohazard and Landlord is responsible for cleanup cost ”.
You have no business even communicating anymore with a business like this.
Landlord is responsible because they know it will be easier to get paid by you.
If you insist call a good regular cleaning company. --73.177.xxx.xx
tenant injury (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jan 6, 2018 8:22 PM
Firs get the blood/acohol ratio from the medics, very likely this is a drug abuse situation. --76.188.xxx.xx
tenant injury (by David [KY]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 6:07 AM
I would already have this mess cleaned up, done and over with. Seems to me you are making this rather complicated. Clean it up, be done with it and tell that cleanup company to take a flying leap. --196.52.x.xx
tenant injury (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 12:22 PM
A few years back, I ended up involved when someone committed suicide with a hand gun. Another friend thought we needed one of these companies to do cleanup. My response, "there is nothing in state law stating this, and the 'disaster' Co panes hire minimum wage people and pay cash daily to their cleaners for this. No special training required." He and I cleaned up the situation. Latex gloves and black plastic contractor bags. --64.251.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 12:54 PM
Thank you all for your advice and experience. While we have been land lording for 25+ yrs - there is a first time for everything. Having the Mr Landlord Q/A resource is most comforting and reinforced our thinking/actions as we worked through this incident.
The final solution;
Tenant family hired their own cleaning crew using basic cleaning procedures.
Lesson worth sharing; The specialty company know as Aftermath prescribed a $7000 ++ fix that included ripping up hardwood flooring. Their quote did not include replacement flooring and I can see several unpriced issues in their proposal primed for $Xtras..
tenant injury (by Sparky [PA]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 1:52 PM
Thanks for the update. How is the tenant? Did you ever find out exactly what happened to him? --100.6.xx.xxx
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 2:18 PM
son tells me; Mom was on blood thinners - an artery burst in her leg. We are all praying for the best but, she is still unconscious.
tenant injury (by rentON [PA]) Posted on: Jan 7, 2018 4:07 PM
A while ago I had a Tenant that was found deceased in an apartment. The Tenants parents used Aftermath to have the apartment cleaned. I never paid a dime. I would be curious as to how they determined the landlord is responsible? --73.236.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by scott [PA]) Posted on: Jan 8, 2018 5:01 AM
curious too. But, ambulance chaser is probably the answer
tenant injury (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jan 8, 2018 5:03 AM
Aftermath said it was landlords responsibility because they assume the landlord has more money than the tenant and insurance and when they said it in front of the tenants family then they have the tenants families cooperation and probably difficult for many landlords to tell them no --72.231.xxx.xxx
tenant injury (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2018 3:47 PM
glad this worked out for you, sort of at least. the tenant that's ill cannot be pursued with a clear conscience so move ahead and deal with remaining tenants. occasionally we run into really weird scenarios and we have to make it up as we go. a good reason to have the tenants get renters insurance with a $250 deductible...and you as an additional insured --76.176.xxx.xxx