Where to draw the line?
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Where to draw the line? (by David [CA]) Dec 11, 2017 7:41 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by RR78 [VA]) Dec 11, 2017 7:55 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by Richard [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 9:06 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Dec 11, 2017 9:16 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Dec 11, 2017 9:48 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Dec 11, 2017 9:56 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Dec 11, 2017 9:57 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Dec 11, 2017 9:57 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 11, 2017 10:57 PM
       Where to draw the line? (by Gail K [GA]) Dec 12, 2017 4:47 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by Andrew [ON]) Dec 12, 2017 4:56 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by LindaJ [NY]) Dec 12, 2017 5:07 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by S i d [MO]) Dec 12, 2017 5:34 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by Vee [OH]) Dec 12, 2017 7:36 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by allin [VA]) Dec 12, 2017 8:20 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 12, 2017 8:55 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Dec 15, 2017 5:11 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by Busy, busy, busy [WI]) Dec 15, 2017 6:31 AM
       Where to draw the line? (by Busy [WI]) Dec 15, 2017 6:40 AM


Where to draw the line? (by David [CA]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 7:41 PM
Message:

A tenant texted with a crazy story about how she heard a loud sound and went to the kitchen and the enamel in the sink had spontaneously cracked. It's a enameled cast iron sink. It seemed very odd, but I wanted to ask a few questions:

1-- anyone heard of this? My best guess is that something very hot was placed on the enamel, then maybe cold water put on it. But if anyone has heard of it, I'd love to learn more.

2--more importantly, where do you draw the line? Is this something I need to fix? Or should they fix it? It's not as cut and dry as a broken appliance or roof leak. Doesn't seem like something I ought to be required to fix, but I don't know.

Thanks! --76.171.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by RR78 [VA]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 7:55 PM
Message:

Yes, it does seem like something you are require to fix.

Part of the business. Things happen and have to bee repaired.

Unless of course the tenant admits to dropping something or other abuse.

Otherwise a good rule of thumb is that if you cant prove it in court then it is on you. --73.177.xxx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:06 PM
Message:

Never heard of it. The tenant likely did it. Fix it and Bill the tenant. --23.121.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:16 PM
Message:

Look at it. If something was dropped or a heat issue it might be apparent. If it just cracked spontaneously, it's on you. If it isn't leaking or rusting it probably isn't a habitability issue - you could just epoxy paint the broken area.

It's probably on you anyway. Get 'em a new sink. Unless you want them to move, then mickey mouse it until they leave.

--47.216.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:48 PM
Message:

Replace with stainless steel. Then you just have to worry about dents. --174.216.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:56 PM
Message:

We had a 70 year old cast iron tub crack. Like you I believed they were indestructible but I was wrong. They crack because with age they become very brittle. It's not the enamel that cracks it is fissures in the cast iron which in turn damages the enamel coating.

To a certain degree you are right about the hot and cold and humidity changes in that after years of that it just takes its toll.

The estimates to remove and replace it were in the thousands. It took a lot of calls before we could even find someone who would work on it.

We have a few companies that can refinish old tubs but all of them said it was a world of difference between refinishing and repairing so we found a craftsman to repair it which was still very expensive. It looks beautiful. Kind of wish I could remove it I would put it in my home.

To your question it is your responsibility. --71.75.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:57 PM
Message:

We had a 70 year old cast iron tub crack. Like you I believed they were indestructible but I was wrong. They crack because with age they become very brittle. It's not the enamel that cracks it is fissures in the cast iron which in turn damages the enamel coating.

To a certain degree you are right about the hot and cold and humidity changes in that after years of that it just takes its toll.

The estimates to remove and replace it were in the thousands. It took a lot of calls before we could even find someone who would work on it.

We have a few companies that can refinish old tubs but all of them said it was a world of difference between refinishing and repairing so we found a craftsman to repair it which was still very expensive. It looks beautiful. Kind of wish I could remove it I would put it in my home.

To your question it is your responsibility. --71.75.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by NC INVESTOR [NC]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:57 PM
Message:

We had a 70 year old cast iron tub crack. Like you I believed they were indestructible but I was wrong. They crack because with age they become very brittle. It's not the enamel that cracks it is fissures in the cast iron which in turn damages the enamel coating.

To a certain degree you are right about the hot and cold and humidity changes in that after years of that it just takes its toll.

The estimates to remove and replace it were in the thousands. It took a lot of calls before we could even find someone who would work on it.

We have a few companies that can refinish old tubs but all of them said it was a world of difference between refinishing and repairing so we found a craftsman to repair it which was still very expensive. It looks beautiful. Kind of wish I could remove it I would put it in my home.

To your question it is your responsibility. --71.75.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 10:57 PM
Message:

I am a licensed building contractor, licensed plumbing contractor, etc. From my experiences it most likely was caused by your tenants actions. Like taking a hot heavy pot off the stove and setting it down in the sink making a Hot/Cold connection-- causing the sink's finish to react/crack.

When this happens, like a suggested above replacing the sink with a stainless steel sink is a good way to go. However, is your sink mounted on top of the counter or underneath? I can cut the old tile around the sink out and then replace it was a stainless steel sink and set new tile around it. You may have to just replace the sink with a top mounted model. I find many choices on Amazon. Good luck. --47.156.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by Gail K [GA]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 4:47 AM
Message:

So what's the old saying? "How can you tell when a tenant is lying? When their lips are moving."

Unless the tenant fesses up that she did something to cause this it is difficult to prove she was the cause.

Repair/replace and take the cost of doing so off your taxes.

Gail --71.203.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by Andrew [ON]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 4:56 AM
Message:

I dont think you can know for certain what happened.....so its on you. And even if the tenant damaged it is there any realistic chance they would pay?

I would replace it with a drop in stainless steel sink. I occasionally replace the sinks between tenants anyway. I find brand name new sinks, cheaply priced on kijiji and buy them ahead of time. --70.30.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 5:07 AM
Message:

Replace it with stainless steel, you pay for it. Unless it is a real mess, there is probably no reason to hurry to do it. But depending on your tenant and the class of the unit, will they accept living with it for a while?

It will be hard to prove the tenant did it, and even if they did put a hot pot in it, I don't think that is out of the ordinary, unless they were warned ahead of time not to. Stainless steel will last a lot longer, even with dings.

Sometimes things happen, sometimes it is the tenant's fault, but I will take the cost to keep my investment intact. Sometimes that means it isn't worth it to get in an argument about cost. "Tenant's home, my house" Your mileage may vary, but that is what works for me.

--96.236.xx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 5:34 AM
Message:

I think everyone else has given you some good advice...so what I'll do is recommend to clarify your wording.

"Is this something I need to fix? Or should they fix it?"

YOU always fix EVERYTHING. TENANTS fix nothing. Who ends up with the final BILL is your only question. You always pay the repair man, but if it's the tenant's fault you then bill them for the damages based on what you paid to have it fixed.

I do not permit tenants to do work on my properties. Maybe you don't either, but your language suggests you do...be sure this is 100% clear. --173.19.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 7:36 AM
Message:

My own house has a cast iron kitchen sink, with 7 kids they could not crack it, must have been the space shuttle or something, I would use touchup appliance paint. That might come off when the turkey roaster is dropped but the rest of the sink should be fine - did they make a police report? --76.188.xxx.xx




Where to draw the line? (by allin [VA]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 8:20 AM
Message:

I think you should go over and look at the sink. It might have sharp glass like edges. I would replace sooner rather than later depending on how bad it is. I have reenamaled a bathtub and it looks good for a year or two. I did not have any problems underneath the finish though. --174.226.xx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 8:55 AM
Message:

Heat or stress could cause that. Was there an earthquake that could have torqued the sink? Is it held into the cabinet with clips that may have been put on too tight? I assume this is not an old one but a thin steel or aluminum one painted over with enamel.

If she appears to be a neat person with no previous issues, I would certainly replace it. Now if she has a big fat boyfriend who might have stepped in there to replace a bulb over the sink, then I would not. Is there a bulb over the sink? --73.33.xxx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Dec 15, 2017 5:11 AM
Message:

You had an earthquake centered right at your kitchen sink.....so check to see if the coffee maker has also been shaken.

It is time for you to upgrade the sink. I understand retro is cool, but 70 years is a long time. When you replace the sink, I would recommend that you put in a new goose neck facet too --24.101.xxx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by Busy, busy, busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 15, 2017 6:31 AM
Message:

Had a tenant call saying she heard loud pop in kitchen, but couldn't find anything. Later in day, when wiping kitchen counters, she spotted hole in corner. Stupid thug got a new gun, thought shooting at the back fence was good for target practice. Cops weren't able to make arrest, but found six shell casings in neighbor's yard. One bullet penetrated my wall, one dented siding but didn't penetrate, one entered neighbor's siding. Idiots! --172.58.xxx.xxx




Where to draw the line? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 15, 2017 6:40 AM
Message:

Just to clarify-stupid thug was neighbor, not tenant. My tenant was an excellent tenant.

Tenant's pizza oven on counter was the shooting victim. Maybe look outside your house for a bullet hole? A bullet could crack a sink.... --172.58.xxx.xxx





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