Legal / smart 2 require?
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Legal / smart 2 require? (by S i d [MO]) Dec 11, 2017 7:33 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by John... [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 7:41 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Dec 11, 2017 7:52 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 8:03 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 8:04 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Dec 11, 2017 8:13 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by WMH [NC]) Dec 11, 2017 8:15 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Dec 11, 2017 8:16 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Sisco [MO]) Dec 11, 2017 8:36 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 8:45 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Barb [MO]) Dec 11, 2017 8:46 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Jo [CT]) Dec 11, 2017 9:16 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by S i d [MO]) Dec 11, 2017 9:32 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by LindaJ [NY]) Dec 11, 2017 9:58 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 11, 2017 10:30 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Dec 11, 2017 10:52 AM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Dec 11, 2017 12:03 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 11, 2017 12:21 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 11, 2017 12:22 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Sisco [MO]) Dec 11, 2017 1:43 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Shelby [IA]) Dec 11, 2017 2:02 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Ken [NY]) Dec 11, 2017 2:13 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Nicole [PA]) Dec 11, 2017 6:22 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Kyle [IN]) Dec 11, 2017 6:26 PM
       Legal / smart 2 require? (by Vee [OH]) Dec 12, 2017 6:38 AM


Legal / smart 2 require? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 7:33 AM
Message:

Any of you ever have issues with residents who seem incapable or unwilling to do basic stuff, like operate safety items (water/gas shut off, reset breakers, test smoke detectors/replace batteries)? It's rare, but I occasionally get a resident who seems completely helpless. No way to really screen for it other than LL refs, and those don't always include this information.

In some ways, by default I require a certain level of tech savvy: applicants find my houses online. I don't use yard signs, so either they find me or they know someone who knows how to use the Internet. You'd think a person capable of using a computer / having access to someone who can use a computer could also turn a knob "righty tighty" or flip a breaker off, then on.

I wonder if there's a legal/smart way to screen for ability to perform basic safety tasks/troubleshooting functions. Nothing crazy but just..."Can you replace a battery? Can you turn this knob clockwise until the water/gas stops flowing?"

Here's one area that's murky. By default, I already assume functional literacy of my applicants, that they are capable of filling out an application and reading/accepting terms of the lease...and apparently the law is on my side on this one as well, since "I didn't understand the lease" hasn't saved a couple of my tenants from the eviction judgment being in my favor. Had a gal once who claimed she had "short term memory loss disability" and that's why she forgot to pay her rent...judge said, "not relevant." Just how far out does that "not relevant" extend, I wonder? --173.19.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 7:41 AM
Message:

Yeah, not sure you can do much about it beforehand. It is a good question.

My main thing is people that still don't understand GFCI outlets. But, I give them a break since I see LOTS of houses that don't have the required ones in the bathroom and such still -- so I should be surprised that lots of people grew up without them, I guess.

When we do the signing and I turn over keys, I now demo the GFCI with them. And also show them the breaker box. That has helped some. :)

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 7:52 AM
Message:

Sid,

So, it would appear you only want to rent to people who have some basic 'house sense'? One reason I quit renting to Section 8 is because ALL of the ones I had,..had zero house sense. I had one that could not even replace a standard 60 watt light bulb,..I'm serious.

I guess you could provide a written quiz for all your new applicants and test their knowledge of basic house sense.

Are you going to reject the ones that fail the pop quiz?

In all honesty, I would not want any tenant of mine to open the outside main breaker box or even a sub-panel located inside the house. Too many potential issues here. I wish my tenants had more house sense than they do. If I could just get them to change the A/C filters twice a year that would be a major accomplishment. --68.63.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:03 AM
Message:

everything can be had for a price. Instead of requiring/screening for these items, write a fee for doing these items.

The only one of the items on your list i'd care about the tenants being able to do is the water shut off . Not being able to reset a tripped breaker only inconveniences them. LL should be doing smoke alarm check . Gas leak is emergency that can be fixed with call to utility or fire dept . --12.156.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:04 AM
Message:

Speaking of gas leak, I guess you'd want to screen for sense of smell to notice rotten eggs... wink wink --12.156.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:13 AM
Message:

David,

In most of my 1940's vintage houses, the main water shut-off valve is located in a hole at the street curb and requires a special tool to turn the valve knob off. I have tried teaching this to my new tenants but it always falls on deaf ears. Even the shut-off valves at each inside faucet are a mystery during water emergency. --68.63.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:15 AM
Message:

DH demonstrates how to turn off the water to the house to all tenants. And provides a water key for the meter when necessary if we haven't installed shut-off valves right at the house.

We don't demonstrate breaker boxes - hasn't really been an issue.

We have had a few issues where people didn't realize that if you set the fan on an HVAC to ON rather than AUTO that it does not shut off. Had a guy call and say AC was blowing warm air...sent a repairman who flipped the fan to Auto and lo and behold, when he turned the temp down just a bit COLD air came out.

When that happened with another tenant, I knew to ask the question and sure enough - FAN was ON.

Also regularly have tenants call on 95 degree days and say their AC isn't keeping things cold enough - and they "have it turned all the way down."

We really need to print out "How a heat pump works!" and make it a handout that goes with the lease.

In speaking recently with our own kids when they installed new thermostats, we realized they did not understand what a heat pump does/how it operates. Our bad.

Also just recently had a tenant say her electric wall heater would not cycle off and the room was getting hot, so she shut it off and turned on a space heater. DH tested the next day and she must have had the temp set so high it could not reach it on such a cold night...so it just ran and ran. It cycled fine when set at a reasonable temp. --173.22.xx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:16 AM
Message:

Invitation Homes is a large REIT with houses for rent across the country. They have a section on their website with nice, professional how-to videos of common house hold tasks -- like how to plunge a toilet, use a Zip Tool to clear a sink clog, reset a garbage disposer.

Maybe you could refer tenants to the best YouTube how to videos when tenants call with a maintenance problem?

When I was researching property management before buying the apartments, I found a company that had tenants watch maintenance videos. When they watched all the videos they got a certificate for $50 off their rent. --98.146.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:36 AM
Message:

I think that house smart testing and cooperation testing should be folded into the in home visit.

We need quick effective techniques to reveal those who are not up to the task. --72.172.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:45 AM
Message:

Roy, are saying your houses don't have a knob or ball valve shut off at the water meter inside ? --12.156.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 8:46 AM
Message:

RathdrumGal -

That is an awesome idea!

I need to create a short course online on basic home maintenance, tell all my tenants to enroll in it, and if they watch all the videos and take the quizzes at the end, they get a coupon.

--131.151.xx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Jo [CT]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:16 AM
Message:

I had a young college student living in one of my rentals. I had to make a repair one day and when I was there I noticed a light bulb had burned out in the ceiling fan. I told her she could change it to get more light and she looked at me with a little laugh and said "I literally do not know how to change a light bulb"!!! Yikes!!

Another young tenant recently called me and said the heat was not working. I told her to put her finger on the up arrow of the thermostat and bring the temp up. Guess what...it worked!!! --32.215.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:32 AM
Message:

Some good ideas here! I like the online maintenance tutorials with a little "carrot" for completing the course. Maybe I could even set up a little "pop quiz" like Roy suggested on my web site using a form with radio buttons...

Not sure how I'd catch this with the in home visit, Sisco. That tells me about their cleanliness habits and pets, but not much else. Is the suggestion I have them show me how to turn off the water in their home? --173.19.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 9:58 AM
Message:

As I say, tenants are tenants for a reason. One being they don't know how a house works. So I go through the house with them at signing to show where the breaker box is, where the shut offs are, etc. I leave a list of the quirky things I have found over the years. Odd switches and what they go to. Other than that, I figure they pay me for the house stuff... If they are really unable to do much, I just raise the rent to a price that makes it worth my while to deal with it. I do like the ones that can at least do some basic trouble shooting over the phone with me. --96.236.xx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 10:30 AM
Message:

Sid,

Great idea! One speaker at Convention years ago had a 4 page app with such questions and a checklist of tools (rake, mower, vacuum, tool box, ladder...)

We assume they know nothing. When signing the lease at the house we show them water shut off and breakers.

Roy: when we re-plumb a house we bring in the main water line to a closet, or next to the water heater, or under the kitchen sink with an easy to reach valve and a tag that says WATER MAIN. This makes repairs or troubleshooting over the phone much easier.

BRAD --68.51.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 10:52 AM
Message:

All of my old houses have one meter (at the curb) and that is the main shut-off valve. However, each inside faucet has its own shut-off valves attached to both hot/cold water lines. All you have to do is make a 1/4 turn.

Getting tenants to watch you-tube videos is one thing, actually getting them to turn a valve during a water emergency is another thing. Many are just plain LAZY. Plus, tenants are 'conditioned' to call the LL when a problem arises. I had one tenant (Section 8 of course) call me on Christmas Day to tell me her kitchen sink had backed-up. I don't answer the phone on holidays anymore. --68.63.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 12:03 PM
Message:

Roy, seems like it would be a good idea to put a shut off valve where the water enters the house? both for convenience and emergency --12.156.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 12:21 PM
Message:

Our whole house shut off is important because us Yankees have to deal with frozen pipes:)

Back to your LEGAL question: I do not see "skills" or "tools" as a protected class.

BRAD --68.51.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 12:22 PM
Message:

And the meter can be buried in ice & snow.

BRAD --68.51.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 1:43 PM
Message:

Sid, I think that some scenario would quickly reveal those who are helpless.

Asking them to shut off the water main and electric main would reveal the very capable.....but I think that our goal is to identify the helpless. --72.172.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Shelby [IA]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 2:02 PM
Message:

I just had a tenant not know how to change a furnace filter. And when I went over there, realized they didn’t know how to program their thermostat. Parents should teach their kids the basics before they move out. --173.26.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 2:13 PM
Message:

I have to teach someone every year how a thermostat works and I only use the round Honeywell thermostats --72.231.xxx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 6:22 PM
Message:

all my buildings are old although most all of the basic mechanicals have been updated. I gravitate towards renting to men or a couple ... because few (stereotype here but it seems to be realistic in my tenant pool) single women can handle the basics. --72.95.xx.xxx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Kyle [IN]) Posted on: Dec 11, 2017 6:26 PM
Message:

I have been taking pictures of water meters and breaker boxes so I can make tutorial sheets for my tenants to use when needed. I plan on finding a list of youtube links too.

As far as screening, I think the convention speaker with the application questions about what tools applicants owned may be the best method.

Brad's comment about water meters being buried in snow reminds me of digging around the yard at one of my rentals trying to find the meter pit in the snow after the tenants moved out without telling me and let the pipes freeze inside, including freezing the inside main shut-off so I couldn't turn it off there. --73.102.xxx.xx




Legal / smart 2 require? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Dec 12, 2017 6:38 AM
Message:

All my places are old, bidding on a 1852 house within a softball toss of campus, but anyway all my valves and breakers are labeled, you should add a house cold near the water heater where the others spider out to bath, kitch, laundry - won't take more than 100bux of parts and an afternoon to have water control in order, on my breaker label sheet I always include the phrase -turn fully off then on- to restore power and I have some tenants who have demonstrated reading a 65dollar bill is harder than reading the gizmo labels. Programming t-stat - forget it, a non program model does not have this problem, put the program version in when selling - they are cute but tempermental... --76.188.xxx.xx





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