Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Nov 30, 2017 7:22 PM|
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Nov 30, 2017 10:04 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Nov 30, 2017 10:06 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by razorback_tim [AR]) Dec 1, 2017 3:20 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Dec 1, 2017 4:21 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 1, 2017 5:10 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Dec 1, 2017 5:23 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Dec 1, 2017 5:24 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Dec 1, 2017 6:03 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Dec 1, 2017 6:10 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Dec 1, 2017 6:35 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Gail K [GA]) Dec 1, 2017 6:35 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Gail K [GA]) Dec 1, 2017 6:37 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by AllyM [NJ]) Dec 1, 2017 8:42 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Dec 1, 2017 9:04 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Dec 1, 2017 9:15 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Barb [MO]) Dec 1, 2017 9:37 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Dec 1, 2017 10:56 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Busy, busy, busy [WI]) Dec 1, 2017 11:07 AM
Dog Poop Problem (by Vee [OH]) Dec 1, 2017 2:03 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by Tom [FL]) Dec 1, 2017 5:58 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by Ken [NY]) Dec 1, 2017 8:03 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [N]) Dec 1, 2017 8:38 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 1, 2017 11:33 PM
Dog Poop Problem (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Dec 5, 2017 6:45 AM
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Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2017 7:22 PM
Basically, nice neighborhood SFH is having some issues with a dog.
Tenant (my property) moved in about a year ago, with no pet. 2 months ago, they asked if they could get a dog. I gave permission, signed pet addendum and upped rent. It is a large older dog and appears well behaved. There is no fence on the property, so tenant walks dog out back and it poops in the tenant's yard - in theory at least.
Neighbor has complained that tenant is letting dog go on to their property and does not clean up the large piles. Neighbor has never seen tenant dog in the act, as they claim it happens at night.
I have had tenants in this property for 10 years (this is the first dog there) and there has never once been an issue prior with unknown droppings in neighbors yard. Neighbor said it is so bad they filled up several grocery bags full...
Things are escalating and they have called cops on each other. I try and stay out of neighbor disputes, but I also try and maintain good relations with the neighbors. How would you proceed?
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2017 10:04 PM
Another sad case of wimpy lease.
Your lease should include animal language becasue a judge can throw out addendums. But better to have something than nothing.
It's simple: tell the res to control their animal or it has to go. Municipalities usually have ordinances (laws) that dogs must be on a leash when not contained inside the home or by a fence. You don't have to scoop the poop but realize you've lost the neighbor as an allie. (sp?)
Police cannot do anything but the dog catcher/animal control officer can fine them.
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2017 10:06 PM
Just remembered an article Jeffrey sent out about apartment complexes collecting a poo sample from incoming pets to compare DNA when they find "forgotten piles" and identify the "purp".
Dog Poop Problem (by razorback_tim [AR]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 3:20 AM
If you are wanting to help resolve this, the only way I see that you can without getting rid of the tenant is to work with the neighbor to prove/disprove that it's your tenant's dog. If I wanted to do that, I would put a game camera up in your neighbor's yard so you could catch the offending animal in the act. Then if it is your tenant's dog, you've got photos to use to confront them. --70.178.x.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 4:21 AM
I agree with the game camera idea. Right now there is no proof that it is your tenants dog. Yes, it is likely, but it could be a neighborhood dog as well. Get the proof, then you can deal with your tenant if it is their dog.
Dog Poop Problem (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 5:10 AM
Put a small token fence up around your property so the tenant knows where the boundaries are. That way, if someone else is letting dogs run loose at night and they are pooping in the common poop area, the neighbor will know it's not your tenant's dog. There could be a pack of dogs running around leaving the poo. I caught a pack here one summer night. I heard a cat scream bloody murder and ran out and saw two large labs and a Doberman cornering a cat near my porch so they could kill it. I shouted and they ran off and the cat, I assume, got away. Authorities found the pack living in a boarded up state building and going in there through a window. Fence will work. Even the little wire fence for gardens. Just put it up along the property line if you know where the line is. --73.33.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 5:23 AM
Funny how there wasn't a complaint before tenant got the dog. Of course it's the dog.
I'd be irritated if they played the whole you can't prove it game. Require the dog be leashed or rescind the dog agreement. The tenant has made their problem your problem. Allowing your dog to go on the neighbors property is beyond inconsiderate. --173.170.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 5:24 AM
Thank you for the replies!
Brad, is it a wimpy lease issue? My addendum says that I can have them remove the dog at the owners discretion, if it becomes a nusiance. Curious, if you had a tenant want to add a pet after the lease was signed, do you have them sign a brand new lease? If you include pet language in your lease that they original sign, how do you designate whether they have a pet there or not?
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 6:03 AM
Good that your addendum has a clause about being able to remove the dog at your discretion. I'd tell the tenant you don't want to argue about whose poop it is because it wasn't a problem before the dog lived there. Tell them they can put up a fence/barrier at their expense if they want to keep the dog there otherwise it has to go because there were no problems before and now it has become one. They allowed this to happen by being inconsiderate pet owners. I'd offer to let them move without penalty as well so they have two options and know you'd rather they leave than have to be involved with a neighbor dispute.
Unless you don't like the neighbors or care what they think. --173.170.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 6:10 AM
For that matter, are you sure the neighbor has dog poop all over his yard? Maybe they just don't like the fact the dog is next door and are saying it so you will get rid of it. Never know who to believe these days. --96.236.xx.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by James [NC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 6:35 AM
Linda, Thank you for the thoughts! The neighbors are an older couple, who do on occasion like to be grumpy. For the last 7 years or so (as long as these neighbors have been there), they have been good neighbors and keep me informed of the goings on of the hood.
They apparently decided it was a good idea to fill up 4 grocery bags worth of poop (that they picked out of their yard) and put it in the driveway (still in the bags) of the tenant. The tenant then decided to call the police, so here we are now. The fact that they had "so much poop" in the yard, seems to indicate that it isnt just a one off random occurrence from a stray etc.
Also in my addendum, I have stated that "tenant shall prevent the pet from becoming an annoyance to, or source of discomfort to or complaints from, other tenants or the neighbors. " Even without the specific proof of who the poop belongs to, I have received complaints from the neighbor. I am thinking of issuing a 14 day notice to cure. Thoughts? --72.214.xx.x
Dog Poop Problem (by Gail K [GA]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 6:35 AM
Several grocery bags full?
That's a lot of...poop.
On the part of the neighbor. What nonsense.
I'm currently fostering what once was a half starved 7 month old pup; been feeding it heavily twice a day which results in impressive "piles" requiring twice a week pooper scooper patrol and even those don't fill what that neighbor is claiming.
Since your tenant is certainly aware of the issue with this stupid calling of police business tell them to make certain the pooper patrol business is done when the dog is on a lease (instead of just turning it loose) AND the tenant carries plastic bags to pick up the stuff. If not and this continues to escalate warn them there may come a time where the dog may have to go.
Dog Poop Problem (by Gail K [GA]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 6:37 AM
You are not only dealing with grumpy older neighbors, you are dealing with a pair of nut cases.
Dog Poop Problem (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 8:42 AM
Not sure what kind of critters you have in the area but raccoon poop looks like dog poop and so does possum. Try the fence first before you poop on your tenant and lose them. --73.33.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 9:04 AM
Sounds like grumpy neighbors alright. Really leaving it in the driveway? Of course, I am always wary of busy body neighbors that keep me informed about what is going on.... That does sound like an awful lot of poop for one old dog in 2 months. My one 90 lb lab fills one grocery bag in 3 months in the winter, when it is frozen in hours.
Have you talked to your tenant at all? I certainly would have a discussion first to hear their side of the story. Maybe she does let the dog out at night alone and it goes there, but then maybe she doesn't know it goes there and just needs to be informed. Certainly if you verbally tell her how you feel, she might straighten up if she is being lax. But I honestly doubt adopting an older dog that they would let it loose so soon after coming there. How clean is the yard on your property, is it cleaned up regularly?
The fence solution sounds good. Just regular rolled wire fencing with some metal posts will probably work with an older mellow dog. Not pretty, but then that is the neighbor's problem. Set up a couple of cameras on your property line, they will trigger when the dog crosses, you get pictures.
I am just always wary in a he said / she said situation. And I would defend a good tenant if I thought they were doing the right thing. Would be funny if you caught kids throwing poop in their yard on your camera... --96.236.xx.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 9:15 AM
Large dogs make huge piles, especially when fed poor quality food.
I doubt the neighbors stole the poop from someone else just in order to create a problem.
I'd give the tenants the notice. It's on them to control their dog, make nice with the neighbors or get rid of the dog. --173.170.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 9:37 AM
Several grocery bags? That is a couple of weeks worth.
My Scooter is a lab. He usually goes twice a day, and eats a decent dog food (not the cheap stuff). We pick up each leaving as it happens. I decided to figure out how much he really eliminates this week, and have been putting each little baggie in a grocery store bag. I believe I missed one movement since Monday, possibly 2, that he had while at work. Well, so far, since Monday afternoon, we have a half-bag filled.
That tells me that they are:
1) not containing the dog
2) not picking up after the dog regularly
3) feeding poor quality food
I'd give the tenants notice to a) control the dog to keep it in their yard and b) make sure to pick up any piles as soon as they happen. It is so much easier to pick them up immediately than waiting for it.
Note, Scooter is pretty much never off leash. We have a 3/4 fence, but it doesn't fully enclose the property. Still, he has his favorite places to eliminate. Most dogs do.
Tell them to either contain and pick up after the dog or it needs to go.
Oh, and the game camera is a great option! You might offer to purchase one for the neighbor. --131.151.xx.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 10:56 AM
I allow dogs, but I have fenced yards. My tenants know that if there are complaints about the dogs, I will give them notice to vacate.
If you don't want to fence, which is the best option, rig up an overhead "trolley" line so the dog can be hooked on a leash when outside.
Give the tenants a written notice that there have been complaints about the dog being loose at large and if there are further complaints, you will evict them. --174.216.xx.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by Busy, busy, busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 11:07 AM
Other dogs will come to poop nearby to mark territory, so, while it may be your tenant's dog, might also be other dogs coming to mark.
I like Oregon woodsmoke's suggestion of the tie-out. --172.58.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 2:03 PM
It will be difficult to determine who owns the dog that dropped the log, the game camera sounds like the best thing or get rid of the dog - you had great relations with neighbor 2 neighbor until the dog arrived. --76.188.xxx.xx
Dog Poop Problem (by Tom [FL]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 5:58 PM
Send the tenant a notice and reference the lease/addendum with regard to the dog and the rules of having a dog. Then decide IF you want the tenant to stay, or dog to go, or??? The tenant has ___ days to remedy this breach of the lease.
Write the dog clause into the lease and have the tenant sign the new lease. From this point forward any issues with the dog could be eviction. IF you have a happy clause maybe its time to ask the tenant if they would like to leave before lease expires.
WONDER IF the tenant and neighbor are going to have a gift exchange???
Dog Poop Problem (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 8:03 PM
I wouldn't get involved,what would the neighbor do if the tenant owned the house? --72.231.xxx.xxx
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [N]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 8:38 PM
Did they light the bags on fire, ring the doorbell, and run? :)
I'm guessing those bags weren't full-full, like with a bunch of groceries. (and where did they get PAPER grocery bags these days?? :)
Wimpy lease: A good lease is designed to protect the LL from problems by heading them off in writing BEFORE they happen. A good lease includes stuff that MIGHT happen. Animals happen. They are an everyday occurrence when renting and EVERY good lease should include animal language and rules. Needing an addendum tells me the lease is lacks protection for you.
I just spent 8 hours editing my lease, adding several new clauses. It's up to 31 pages built to protect me against things that DID happen to me, ideas I've picked up, and problems I foresee.
Lotsa LLs brag about having a short 4 page lease then run into situations like yours and don't have a firm policy in place, already agreed and signed by the res. They have to dream up an panic solution and re-invent the wheel at every turn.
When a res acts up I can simply photocopy the appropriate page, highlight the applicable clause in blue (it's a calm trust color), they see their initials on that page and th problem is usually solved with that.
Addendums are not leases. Judges can do whatever they want with them. Again, not 100% protection but better than nothing. You get points for getting something in writing!
My lease is clear: only the animals named on page one are authorized. No other animals may be brought on the premises, including visiting or animal sitting.
An animal is considered by the law as personal property so as a LL you have no rights to remove or touch the animal. Your lease is with your resident. You can make rules about what the RESIDENT can do with his personal property and personal actions in regard to the home.
I can't see a judge evicting based on the dog pooping in the neighbor's yard. But I DO see a LL being able the give the RESIDENT a warning and eventually asking them to leave or not renewing based on lack of cooperation.
Why do we need to give 14 days to cure? I send a text TELLING them this is the final notice to comply immediately or face expulsion.
A proper lease requires the res to follow all local laws and that would include leash and containment laws. My lease also requires them to cooperate with neighbors.
Hope that helps!
Dog Poop Problem (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2017 11:33 PM
Been thinking more about this.
Suggest to your neighbor that he install a deer camera or a video security system. They’re all on sale right now.
THAT will give real evidence. Renters come and go but neighbors live forever. Keep the neighbors happy.
Dog Poop Problem (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2017 6:45 AM
Do you have a one or two page pet agreement or just a small paragraph? If your lease doesn't allow you to train your tenants, then the tenants will start training you. --24.101.xxx.xxx
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