HVAC not up to code
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HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Oct 12, 2017 10:09 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Ed [PA]) Oct 12, 2017 10:11 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by #22 [MO]) Oct 12, 2017 11:39 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Jay [PA]) Oct 13, 2017 12:19 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Opinionated [NC]) Oct 13, 2017 4:15 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Vee [OH]) Oct 13, 2017 5:01 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by WMH [NC]) Oct 13, 2017 5:10 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Richard [MI]) Oct 13, 2017 6:01 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Barb [MO]) Oct 13, 2017 6:18 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Oct 13, 2017 6:23 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by #22 [MO]) Oct 13, 2017 9:38 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Doogie [KS]) Oct 13, 2017 10:46 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 13, 2017 10:47 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Oct 13, 2017 12:18 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by RB [MI]) Oct 13, 2017 2:25 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Vee [OH]) Oct 13, 2017 6:09 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 13, 2017 9:52 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 13, 2017 9:53 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Oct 14, 2017 9:55 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Blue [IL]) Oct 15, 2017 12:04 AM
       HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 15, 2017 8:40 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by cjo'h [CT]) Oct 16, 2017 7:59 PM
       HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Oct 17, 2017 5:36 AM


HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2017 10:09 PM
Message:

In May 2016 I bought a older home that was converted from a single residence to a 4 plex. In September 2017, a tenant I was evicting went to the city and got them to come out and inspect the property.

The city found that the HVAC system wasn't up to code: when the units were built, the ductwork wasn't installed correctly, there was no cold air return in an apartment, basically it was installed illegally.

I'd had a home inspection done before I bought the place and nowhere in the report does it even mention the HVAC is an issue.

My attorney said that Nebraska law's statute of limitations for suing the realtor for nondisclosure, is a year from the time of purchase.

The home inspector contract states they are only liable for the amount of the fee paid to them.

To fix this up to city code is $40,000. I am not sure what to do and wondered if anyone else ran into this, and what solutions they had.

Thanks --97.119.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Ed [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2017 10:11 PM
Message:

Get another quote to fix it. No HVAC job in a residential costs $40K --24.154.xxx.xx




HVAC not up to code (by #22 [MO]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2017 11:39 PM
Message:

40k? Doubt it. Get a lot more bids and don't tell the new bidders you're trying to beat a bid of 40k.. if you do guys will bid 35k. I realize adding cold air returns could cost some money, but these amounts are obscene!! --70.195.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Jay [PA]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 12:19 AM
Message:

I just installed a new furnace to replace a octopus hot air gravity furnace. There is no cold air ducts, just holes cut in the floor to.allow air to return to the basement furnace. The new furnace needs cold air ducts, so I figure it will take a day, and $300-1100 to install in a single family. --107.77.xxx.x




HVAC not up to code (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 4:15 AM
Message:

This illustrates why landlords must always do all things correctly. The government will not come after crappy tenants-but they will ride your back.

Return ducts are vital inducted systems.

Could you convert your building to mini-splits? --66.226.xx.xx




HVAC not up to code (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 5:01 AM
Message:

The system may be grandfathered if it is heating only, cold air sinks to the basement which is how so many places have working heat systems, however if cooling is desired the return air is critical to get the hot air to the unit with the cooling that is typically added on top of an existing heater - what often happens is the venting may not be large enough to get the air speed needed for a/c to function well, the air speed with a/c is about 3 times the size of heating flow, so often the venting will whistle and the fan motors burn out quickly forcing the flow thru the heating designed vents, so what many owners decide is put units in the largest room high up where the hot air is sitting waiting to be cooled - sometimes these need a breaker and cable all to themselves and I have found that some manufacturers of window units work fine in the wall but you have to observe the outdoor air slots to see if it will work. For a 3bd 1000 sq ft place I use 3 window units - living room and farthest apart bedrooms. Mini-splits can do just about the same thing as wall units but they all run from one outdoor unit - there are heat pump versions of these, ask a couple furnace people for ideas on your situation. --76.188.xxx.xx




HVAC not up to code (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 5:10 AM
Message:

Abandon the HVAC and install mini-splits. --173.22.xx.xx




HVAC not up to code (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 6:01 AM
Message:

Just get separate units for each apartment and abandon the existing A/C.

Probably $500 each. --66.188.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 6:18 AM
Message:

Either mini-splits or through the wall heat pump or AC units. Frederich makes some decent ones. --64.251.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 6:23 AM
Message:

Thank you to everyone who answered this question. We've had companies look at this so far. The first company refused to even bid on the work and referred us to this company as there are so many problems.

1.The ductwork for all apartments was installed wrong and that apartments are sharing the ductwork which means that fire or smoke from one apartment will travel through the ducts from one apartment to another. We were told this will make firt travel faster through the apartment house, if there is one, making this an extreme fire hazard.

2.The AC units are the wrong size. (there are 2 of them, one for apartments 1&4 another for 2 and 3) When we explored doing mini-splits, both companies told us that the existing AC units were too large for just 1 apartment and that the coils in the condenser unit would freeze if they were separated out that way.

3. The no cold air return vents in apartments, which you already know about.

After I read the posts, I called the company and asked them what it would cost to abandon the central air, and just have window units. I hope that is doable and this will be solved. Thank you all for your help! --97.119.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by #22 [MO]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 9:38 AM
Message:

I like vee's idea about the possibilty of some or all things being grandfathered in. This is a great idea. You might talk to a lawyer about this.

Most city inspectors are soul less bullies. Perhaps a deal can be worked out where you'll do some of the work over time. I have return air vents literally cut into the side of the furnace - maybe a simple fix on a unit or two.

At this point a lawyer might be able to fix your situation. Make some calls and find the best one who has dealt with things like this before. Lawyers try and wear a lot of hats and do a marginal job in a lot of areas. Get the one that specializes in whopping the city.

Maybe a trade school would be willing to take this On? Ducts cost a lot less than equipment. Call some supply houses and see who is cheap and good and get some more bids.

Lastly - don't beat yourself up on this one. Get through it as best you can.. learn from it and be better from it. Those who do nothing make no mistakes. We've all messed up here. --70.195.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Doogie [KS]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 10:46 AM
Message:

I wouldn't say it would be wrong to go the lawyer route, but I would offer a word of caution if you do. I know this one from personal experience. The lawyer might win for you, but as #22 said, most city inspectors are soul less bullies. Lawyer won the case for the owner, but there was lots of other issues to be addressed all of a sudden. Finally had to just hire a contractor that had good relationship with city inspector and have them handle it. This was no where near the tune of $40k though. I wish you luck. --72.202.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 10:47 AM
Message:

Pat,

When was the system installed? Did it have a permit and was it inspected/passed by the city?

I'm all for fire safety. But most of the old homes in the area are probably just like yours. "Up to 2017 code" can be very different from "built to code" at the time.

Is the city demanding you make a change?

BRAD --68.50.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 12:18 PM
Message:

The system was installed in 2012. The city cited us for this and we have been given a deadline to fix it. --97.119.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 2:25 PM
Message:

Was a Permit pulled for this work in 2012 ?

Was the work performed by a Qualified, Licensed Contractor ?

Is there a City Mechanical (Approved) Sticker on Unit ?

After the dust settles and this issue is taken care of,

give the Tenant(s) Legal Walking Papers.

--71.13.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 6:09 PM
Message:

The fire risk is only if a heater catches on fire and sends it's flames into the ductwork, where ever that goes, if the ductwork is attached to each other properly the fire from a meth lab should not go into the ductwork but the odors will eventually get around much like smoking odor from a unit to another, so it seems you may want to see about splitting the heat vents if the city will allow you to run heat only without returns connected unit-by-unit, this will guide you into the a/c part of the equation - if not allowed to run heat the -old way- then you will have to make tin plates and close off the vents and use wall type units, this will permit each tenant to control and pay for the comfort level they desire. It is not the end of your place but I would grumble with the installer and all that end of this mess, lawyer won't get you much but a big lawyer bill to fix something kinda stupid that you will find makes your place a more attractive place in the end. --76.188.xxx.xx




HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 9:52 PM
Message:

Pat,

My state's required sales disclosure asks if and improvements were made without a permit. Check your paperwork to consider going back on the seller.

A couple of hotel style in wall units could solve this quickly.

I woukd not even listen to a contractor who gives me such an outrageous bid.

BRAD --70.198.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2017 9:53 PM
Message:

Pat,

My state's required sales disclosure asks if and improvements were made without a permit. Check your paperwork to consider going back on the seller.

A couple of hotel style in wall units could solve this quickly.

I woukd not even listen to a contractor who gives me such an outrageous bid.

BRAD --70.198.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2017 9:55 PM
Message:

Thank you to everyone who offered help and advice. Your support is much appreciated. I wanted to give you an update on what's happening:

I talked to my attorney who asked if the city had agreed that if we had the contractor do the work he'd planned, could we still operate as a 4 plex. I talked to the contractor who said he thought he could get the city to write a letter stating that his plan would meet their requirements for a 4 plex.

He told me he could do the mini splits or separate heating units, but that would require starting over with planning and getting new permission from the city. He said he talked to the city and that this plan wouldn't save us much as most of the cost is in fixing ductwork issues. The city wants the other ductwork not just sealed off, but out of the house so it can't be used again.

The contractor had also told us that the person he was working with in the city planning office told him that as long as we were working with a contractor and moving forward, they'd give us time to fix this. But then we just found out that a notice was put on the front door Friday stating that we had to fix everything by November 1st or the building would be condemned. This is so frustrating: everything but the HVAC is fixed. Everything else was small, and it's all done. We've stayed in touch with the city inspector throughout this process. We've called him once a week and left messages, we've also emailed him once a week with the same information and offered to show him the work that's been done. He's never responded to us.

I left a message with my attorney to let her know what happened, but it's very frustrating and I am not sure what to do. I'm thinking of calling my city councilor and telling them the situation and asking them if they can help, but I don't want to make anything worse than it already is.

Anyone have any ideas?

--97.119.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Blue [IL]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2017 12:04 AM
Message:

Your inspector has errors and omissions insurance. I'd pretty quickly have my lawyer turn his attention that way.

It won't help you with you problem but might help you pay to solve it.

If you mini split and remove the existing furnaces and then remove the ductwork that is easily removed and cap the rest where they enter the walls, is that enough to satisfy the city?

As a friend of mine likes to say, "everybody's got a boss". Find out who the inspector's boss is.

Remind the city that condemning the building of the size just takes all that tax money out of their pocket, and that is in their best interest to help you solve this proble; that you did not create and that you had an inspection prior to purchase, which made no mention of these issues.

--96.35.xxx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 15, 2017 8:40 PM
Message:

Pat,

This story has too many "he thinks" and "he saids". Contractors will say anything (lie) to string you along and make themeves look good. I hope I'm wrong. This will all come onto you so YOU need to meet face to face with the inspector.

Their price will also reflect your desparation as the insp bears down.

Get a few HVAC contractors in there for ideas and quotes. Some will have a great relationship with the inspector and gain some favor.

BRAD --174.232.x.x




HVAC not up to code (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2017 7:59 PM
Message:

Pat, some inspectors don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.And they got the job of inspector because they knew someone who knew someone.So don't get too frustrated .Go and see the Mayor of your town and lay your problem on their lap.If the building is condemned,it means it comes off the tax rolls,so you don't have to pay taxes,how many buildings ca they afford to ha e that happen to.If your building is like that, there must be hundreds like that the same way,So you can rise a big stink,I don't think they'd like that.Rattle the cage.Don't be shy .Charlie..............................................................................I know an inspector in one of our local towns,he used to be a stakeout man for a company which built premanufactlried garages,he couldn't hit a nail with a hammer.......................................I can give you his name,if you want, ................................. --174.199.xx.xxx




HVAC not up to code (by Pat [NE]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2017 5:36 AM
Message:

Thank you: the support from everyone, the ideas and experiences you've shared have been just what I needed. My attorney is working this out and things are looking better. I will have to pay the 40,000 to fix this: there isn't a way around that. But I do have recourse on the home inspector who somehow didn't see a thing and on the sellers who paid a non licensed person to install this. So I am hopeful that I will get my money back. Eventually. Maybe. --97.119.xxx.xxx





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