Let it go (by S i d [MO]) Oct 3, 2017 11:47 AM|
Let it go (by NE [PA]) Oct 3, 2017 12:06 PM
Let it go (by plenty [MO]) Oct 3, 2017 1:02 PM
Let it go (by AllyM [NJ]) Oct 3, 2017 1:13 PM
Let it go (by John2 [MI]) Oct 3, 2017 1:23 PM
Let it go (by Deanna [TX]) Oct 3, 2017 1:28 PM
Let it go (by Sisco [MO]) Oct 3, 2017 2:03 PM
Let it go (by rani3182 [TX]) Oct 3, 2017 2:39 PM
Let it go (by WMH [NC]) Oct 3, 2017 3:58 PM
Let it go (by Lee [IN]) Oct 3, 2017 4:46 PM
Let it go (by GKARL [PA]) Oct 3, 2017 4:47 PM
Let it go (by Chris [CT]) Oct 3, 2017 4:49 PM
Let it go (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 3, 2017 6:14 PM
Let it go (by Deanna [TX]) Oct 3, 2017 6:41 PM
Let it go (by plenty [MO]) Oct 3, 2017 7:23 PM
Let it go (by cjo'h [CT]) Oct 3, 2017 9:53 PM
Let it go (by LindaJ [NY]) Oct 4, 2017 4:58 AM
Let it go (by Roy [AL]) Oct 4, 2017 7:01 AM
Let it go (by Dave [MO]) Oct 4, 2017 11:40 AM
Let it go (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 4, 2017 10:12 PM
Let it go (by S i d [MO]) Oct 5, 2017 6:45 AM
Let it go (by Smokowna [MD]) Oct 5, 2017 3:52 PM
Let it go (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 6, 2017 3:03 PM
Let it go (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 11:47 AM
It's NOT just an overplayed song from "Frozen" anymore!
What I've noticed from the many responses to my ongoing updates about the $16,000 house is some say FIGHT and others say LET IT GO. What fascinates me is that based on what I know of some of these folks from having met them personally and chatted with them, I can't find any clear pattern as to WHY some folks are giving the response they do.
Some wealthy, multi-hundred unit land lords are saying FIGHT. Others say Let it Go. I would've though richer land lords would not mess with it based on the low $ value. But then again others would cite Ben Franklin's wisdom..."for want of a nail....we lost the war...." (i.e. pay attention to the small stuff!)
Alright, so what makes YOU draw the line wheresoever you choose to draw it? Is it based on money? Hassle factor? Combination? Something else?
Please, without referencing my $16K house (which is NOT the topic of this post)....when making a purchase, what factors do you consider and where do you draw the line before walking away?
Let it go (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 12:06 PM
Walking away before contract and after contract are 2 different scenarios.
I'll stick with the "after contract" scenario.
In Pa, once a property is under contract the seller pretty much has to sell unless there are some other things taking place. Not being competent enough to sell, other owners you didn't know about, federally owned property where they can tell you to pound sand if there's an issue and they can't close.
I draw the line after contract if the fight is too expensive to justify the property.
I keep going because I like a challenge. It prepares me for next time.
I keep going, because once I qualify a property, chances are good that I got it UNDER my max bid so it's worth the fight and I want the property.
More than drawing the line on the property, its drawing the line on the deal.
The "making money when buying"! :)
When do I let the deal go?
When I've exhausted my options OR, and this is a big OR, something else has come up and I want out.
Let it go (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 1:02 PM
I didn't say either way... But for this post... Time. Keep going until there are no more doors to open either way. Do your part. If you have the time and energy.
Let it go (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 1:13 PM
Time is money. Figure out how much your time is worth. --73.33.xxx.xxx
Let it go (by John2 [MI]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 1:23 PM
Not a multi-unit millionaire yet but if the property fits our business plan then it is worth my time, energy and effort. I would however take into consideration advice from LL who have been there done that.... but not all LL have the same tolerance for risk that I do.:) --70.194.x.xxx
Let it go (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 1:28 PM
I buy my houses from people who have problems. I solve their problems by buying their house. Their problem might be they need money to do what they really want to do, and they have a house that means less to them than doing what they really want to do. Or they might not be able to take care of the house they have, and just want to get away from it. Or they want money--- now!!! ---more than they want a sad little house.
I don't need to buy a house. I don't need to buy a house today, tomorrow, or the next day. My project queue is quite full, and my renovation budget is well-accounted-for into the end of next year. If a bargain comes along, I'll grab it and slip it into the queue, but I don't need anyone's house. I went into this year saying, "My project queue is full, and my renovation budget is booked solid", but I still bought three in April (two were redeemed), one in August, and one in September. (All were at tax sale, so that's [usually] a different animal.)
Up until the point where I make an offer, and the offer is accepted, I really don't care one way or another about whether I get a house. I learned a long time ago not to get attached to a specific house, because you never know what the future brings. The one you absolutely had to have might burn down or be a drama-magnet, and the dinky little ones you don't appreciate might turn into your cash cows and run on autopilot. Either it works out or it doesn't, and you have plenty of stuff to do in the meantime rather than get excited over every house worth consideration.
Once the offer is accepted, however, my attitude changes. It turns into "mine", because the only thing that stands in the way of it being "mine" for real is just small technicalities, like the passage of time, the drafting of paperwork, the signing of papers, a visit to the deed office, the exchange of money. The money's over here. The deed office is over there. The paperwork is just boilerplate that someone has to fill in the blanks and send to the printer. It's a done deal, as far as I'm concerned, and it's just a matter of when I get to start doing stuff.
I know I'm going to come through on my end of things-- one of the benefits for buying in cash. :) But if something suddenly comes up on the seller's side of things that complicates the issue--- like, say, when all of a sudden an Heir who gave authorization to sell their interest suddenly decides they want to hold out for more money, and I know that same Heir cratered a deal a few years back, where the house was in a position to be sold for three times as much, because they wanted more money then, too. When that kind of situation happens, I figure out what my rights are, and I sit on them. They needed to figure out how to solve the situation before I got involved to the point where I have rights to sit on. If they have second thoughts-- usually, in my experience, it's someone wanting more money, or adult children telling the seller they could have gotten more money, even if the house has been sitting unsold on the market for a year or two-- they needed to have those thoughts before we came to an agreement. Whatever the coulda shoulda woulda is, the fact remains that we have an agreement for $x.
I currently have one house that's an annoying headache. It's the house that we bought at the June 6th tax sale. That week, we discovered a problem, and the guy who challenged our claim to it by trying to be sneaky tried to bully us away from it. The easy thing would be to ask for a refund, and let the foreclosure attorneys hash it out with Mr. Sneakypants. But we knew Mr. Sneakypants probably had pulled this stunt before, and would probably try to pull it again, and we were like, "Okay. You have no interest in being reasonable. Let's do it the hard way, if you like." It's now October, and it's still not cleared up... I hope it will finish making its way through the court system before Halloween, if we're lucky, but it might take until Thanksgiving. It doesn't really matter. I'm confident in our rights, and I'm going to insist upon them until it gets decided one way or the other. If, for some bizarre reason, they find against us--- okay. I've got plenty of other stuff to do with my time and money.
But once it's "mine", I'm going to sit on my rights to the end. And, like a Mom, if my unreasonable-behavior-detector goes off, I'm not going to reward bad behavior by caving to it. :) --96.46.xxx.xx
Let it go (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 2:03 PM
When to "fight"? Whenever I deal with a tenant who won't keep his agreements, I review my screening. When I see a lack of previous landlord tenant court actions (they thought it best to let it go)I think it is only right to give the next ll a chance to know that this tenant has a history so bad that we wound up in court.
When do I let it go? Whenever I haven't the time to deal with it. --72.172.xxx.xx
Let it go (by rani3182 [TX]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 2:39 PM
Deanna - what part of texas are you from? I know you said you are in a small town - still if i get a chance to connect..would love too! --168.88.xxx.xxx
Let it go (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 3:58 PM
Deanna, I think I love you...! --173.22.xx.xx
Let it go (by Lee [IN]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 4:46 PM
Lowest fruit --209.239.xxx.xx
Let it go (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 4:47 PM
Deanna, I enjoyed reading that.thanks. --172.56.xx.xx
Let it go (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 4:49 PM
Its all math for me, is the time and energy worth the return?
I have my hooks into a deal now that is worth about $200k-$250k in profit to me. If the same thing happened in this deal that happened in yours I would absolutely fight, I'd happily spend the $10k-$15k to take it to court and tie it up for a year or two. --24.45.xxx.xx
Let it go (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 6:14 PM
My time worth more than the time you have spent posting about this property. Maybe yours not. Move on. --97.94.xxx.xx
Let it go (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 6:41 PM
@Rani, if you draw a triangle between Wichita Falls, Fort Worth, and Abilene, that's where I am. :)
I'm running all over the place all the time, though, so if you ever want to catch up together for lunch or dinner sometime, let me know. :) I most frequently run down 281, I-35, and I-45, if any of those pass through your stomping grounds. --96.46.xxx.xx
Let it go (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 7:23 PM
Someone say Lunch? Ya lunch with Deanna, everyone let's go! Sid you have do to something while you wait!
Let it go (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Oct 3, 2017 9:53 PM
Plenty, you got the apex of the triangle,that's the spot
..... ..... ..... .... ... .. . ...... --174.199.x.xx
Let it go (by LindaJ [NY]) Posted on: Oct 4, 2017 4:58 AM
Logic vs emotion. Thinking vs feeling. I try to separate the two, and figure out which is ruling my decision. Sometimes the gut rules, and I will do things by emotion, but mostly I try to be logical and not let emotion run the day.
I also make sure I understand need and want. I taught that to my daughter earlier on. Do you NEED this, (as in food, shelter, tool) or do you just want it (as in another deal, new TV or vehicle, candy) Need means I will fight for it, want means I get it if I can without a huge cost either monetarily or emotionally.
Patience has a lot to do with it. Am I willing to wait until the price is right, or someone is selling used, or I build it myself, or get through the courts.
Everyone has a different tolerance for these things. I can see it in posts here. Some let tenants get away with things just because LL don't want to be bothered, some pick their fights, others get emotional and let that rule their actions. Tenants tend to want the new TV, fancy car over anything else, LL tend to wait until it is needed. Just like we have different "rules" that work in our areas of the country as landlords, we have different personal objectives and tolerances. WE just have to figure out what they are. --96.236.xx.xx
Let it go (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 4, 2017 7:01 AM
I think the bigger (and more important) question here is this: Why do YOU want to pursue this deal? --68.63.xxx.xxx
Let it go (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Oct 4, 2017 11:40 AM
It would be relevant to each deal. This deal I would not pursue.
Let it go (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 4, 2017 10:12 PM
I'm a'lovin' your thread! Very interesting to hear the variety of answers.
Seminars have made me wealthy. When I spent the time and energy to learn how to buy houses in different ways I learned deals are EVERYWHERE!!! I'm always tickled when people moan and whine about "no good deals out there". Tells me their buying skills are limited. OR maybe they live in wacked out market.
Me? it's about my TIME. Time is the only thing I have. I make offers. Some fly and others die. Not a problem because I only need a few at a time. And some of those dead offers reappear later because houses never go away.
The low hanging fruit (Lee!) fill my time and use up my cash. If it's too complicated I keep moving. If I get every deal I'm moving too slow.
I'm like Deanna in that I have plenty of projects waiting so I'm only buying super deals I cannot afford to pass up. I do't really NEED any more houses but buying IS my addiction!
If the investor keeps a good reputation and relation with sellers & realtors & bankers, there also comes a time when the deals come to you. Then it's just a matter of learning their felt need and the math.
Like the short order cook, some are on the burner, some are on the warmer, some are on the plate, and SOME are on the table. Newbies mistake stuff in the freezer for a meal ready to eat!
Too many investors get hung up on one deal while other deals go unnoticed. THIS is why I preach about not being the $10 laborer, be the investor out shopping for the next deal. If I had a nickel for every time I hear "I'm working on this seller..." That's not a seller.
It seems that when a deal goes crazy and I stop investing my time on it, another BETTER deal drops in my lap.
I also do my part to help people NOT get ripped off when dealing with other investors.
BTW In Indiana a Purchase Agreement is only a proposal to buy or sell. I cannot FORCE someone to give me the deed. The seller can drop out even without a reason.
PS I also pray about each opportunity. I ask God to direct my path, to open or close the doors HE wants. I stay obedient by following His instructions about business as laid out the Bible. TONS! of business education there! I recommend folks simply start with Proverbs. Even atheists agree there is some great advice there.
Let it go (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 5, 2017 6:45 AM
I appreciate everyone's thoughts, as always...even those who didn't follow the instructions and continued to comment on my specific $16K house vs. how they evaluate their deals (not my deals). Just to be clear regarding what I was interested in hearing...but it's an open forum. I confess to waxing tangentially on occasion too...
Brad, I still haven't heard your thoughts on this $1,600 Sale Agreement buyout vs. and ETF lease buyout with a tenant. Same scenario to me. Thoughts on a corollary that says, "Timid investors raise skinny kids?"
I get what you're saying about time. Even with all I've put in (including posting/reading threads here)...I'm "all in" for about 8 hours. $200 an hour isn't a bad rate! And I have gained a lot of knowledge that is pushing me into exploring other "underwater" houses where the liens have Sellers convinced they cannot sell. I'm looking at this as a real-life REI seminar on liens and foreclosure. --173.19.xx.xxx
Let it go (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Oct 5, 2017 3:52 PM
Energy and exit strategies.
If you put too much energy into a project and don't recognize a worthwhile return, I shy away.
That same energy could be given away on charity work without exposing yourself to risk.
So I base decisions on energy levels --74.96.xxx.xxx
Let it go (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 6, 2017 3:03 PM
Apparently your state's system of buying is different than mine. As stated before, a Purchase Agreement in Indiana, even with strong wording, does not truly bind anyone. The court will not force the issue because no one was financially "damaged" in the process. It ain't sold until it's closed.
If YOUR state allows a buyout fee I would pursue it, but only after counting the cost. (that's Biblical)
LegalShield will write a bulldog letter on fancy atty letterhead for you as part of your $20/mo membership. Local atty $100 for a letter.
When I buy it's usually to solve someone's problem. In this case their problems sound messy and I have bigger fish to fry.
I realize this MIGHT be a case of taking a higher offer but it might also be a case of dumb mishandling.
While I DO take advantage of every opportunity, I'm not out to "get" anyone or cheat them on their error.
With the time and life energy burned up with this one deal you might have found 2 better deals.
Just some thoughts...since you asked!