I just had to find a replacement for a tenant who is being relocated by his company. I found a prospective tenant - a young woman who requested a transfer with her company so she could attend graduate school at UNC.

Her credit scores were just ok, her company loves her which is why they agreed to the transfer rather than lose her so now on to her landlord for payment history - which in the end is the only thing I care about after their ability to pay.

Her LL went on a rant. Said that in 18 months she only paid on time about 50% of the time. Her LL told me she collected more in late fees than she did in rent. Advised me not to rent to her. As we were hanging up she told me that the tenant took better care of her property than any tenant she'd ever had but emphasized I shouldn't rent to her.

I went back to the applicant and told her what her LL said. She told me that she was late one time for a entire month.She had left her old company and her new (current) company only pays once a month and had told the LL that before she changed jobs. she sent me her bank statements highlighting every rent payment and it was true she was only late once. and it was the month she changed jobs AND she sent me a copy of the notice she sent her LL in advance telling her she would be late the month she changed jobs and attached her offer letter which shows she will be paid monthly.

I was curious about the "paid more in late fees" comment so I asked her what her late fees were...$35/day for the first 3 days then $50/day every day thereafter until the rent was paid. I was absolutely speechless.

In NC we cannot charge more than 5% of the rent. I looked up SC law and they do not have a set percentage but it does say that they consider excessive fees usary. If $1,155 in late fees for one month doesn't meet the definition of usary then I don't know what does.

I had dinner that night with two friends who are also Brokers and while they were also appalled they advised me to stay out of it after I said I was inclined to tell the tenant to take her soon to be previous LL to court.

I really have a problem with taking advantage of someone who is trying to do everything right. And I am still inclined to tell her to sue her LL.

So what would you do... stay out of it or say something?

I would stay out of it completely. He's a crook and she's an idiot for not questioning it.

Maybe move on from both of them.

Keep walking.

Stay out of it. Not your business. If you say anything you'll be involved thru the whole long drawn out process of the legal battle and in the end you may be wrong.

Perhaps here worked paid it. If she isn't worried neither should you.

Treat her fairly and she'll recognize the difference. You are a good person to care and you are right she was treated unfair but she signed the contact, going in knew the rules. That's all you ask of her now too, with your lease agreement. I'm impressed she had all the documents to prove to you who she really is! You stole a good one.... That other landlord will loose more than he ever gained by hos own system.

Keep walking.

Stay out of it. Not your business. If you say anything you'll be involved thru the whole long drawn out process of the legal battle and in the end you may be wrong.

Perhaps here worked paid it. If she isn't worried neither should you.

Treat her fairly and she'll recognize the difference. You are a good person to care and you are right she was treated unfair but she signed the contact, going in knew the rules. That's all you ask of her now too, with your lease agreement. I'm impressed she had all the documents to prove to you who she really is! You stole a good one.... That other landlord will loose more than he ever gained by hos own system.

Keep walking.

Stay out of it. Not your business. If you say anything you'll be involved thru the whole long drawn out process of the legal battle and in the end you may be wrong.

Perhaps here worked paid it. If she isn't worried neither should you.

Treat her fairly and she'll recognize the difference. You are a good person to care and you are right she was treated unfair but she signed the contact, going in knew the rules. That's all you ask of her now too, with your lease agreement. I'm impressed she had all the documents to prove to you who she really is! You stole a good one.... That other landlord will loose more than he ever gained by hos own system.

Stay out of it. People still think there are far more bad landlords than tenants. I say far more bad tenants.

I already spend more time court than I should with tenants.

You really have the free time and be called as a witness to testify on a slander charge?

another "stay out of it" here.

Another stay out. If the explanation and papers she showed you satisfy you enough to rent, go ahead. But the past is the past and you need to establish your tenant / LL relationship with her.

So many times I have seen a misunderstanding turn into a nasty war between people. Who knows what might have triggered the LL to say that. And it might just be the LL is crazy.

Nicole:

When I worked in corporate America I was directed not to reveal anything negative about an employee when called for a reference. As a result I hired just as many incompetent employees as I passed off on other unwitting companies by following that corporate CYA mandate.

But this isn't equivalent to a corporate mandate or just repeating irrelevant information.

In NC property managers are licensed RE Brokers and are required to answer rental verifications truthfully. A prospective tenant has every legal right to know information discovered through the pre-screening process that might negatively affect their application being approved.

My telling a prospective tenant that the rental verification revealed a poor payment history is factual information. Not providing a viable reason for refusing an application can be interpreted as an arbitrary or discriminatory decision.

Besides, I am not here to protect another landlord.

That was then and this is now.

Information in and information out.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

The only question you should be entertaining at this point is do you want her or not??

Julie, I Love the "not your circus, not your monkeys"!

I rarely get rent verifications from independent owners. Most tenant verifications com from PM's and they are fairly forthright. When they're reluctant to give too much info there is always one telling response. Would you rent to them again. When they say no you know there is a problem you don't want to take on.

Bad landlord reference, marginal credit, a full month late on rent, I wouldn't accept her.

If she had been my tenant she'd have an eviction on her record. Pay or quit day 7 and court on the first Wednesday after filing. She would have been out before the rent was 30 days late.

Out. You don't know if her statement is accurate.

I trust LL reference with a grain of salt. If a good tenant, some LLs won't give a good reference- they want them to stay.

I wonder if this bad LL reference was her only landlord? It's always more useful to back further than the most current landlord for the references.

I agree don't get involved with her suing her current LL. You have no way of knowing what really happened in this situation, and why bother anyway.

Pass.

I stopped reading when you said " I went back to the tenant and told her what the landlord said".

At this point, its all tenant drama to me. I dont know if the ll is lying or the tenant is lying. But I do know the tenant always has a plausible excuse....and lots of professional tenants are smarter than I. I do know it will take months and months to evict a deadbeat and it will cost me thousands and thosands of dollars.

Its not worth the risk.

Was that her current landlord or the landlord previous to her current landlord? Check with previous to the current landlord. Previous to current landlord don't have a dog in the race (race was already run).

Don't get involved in someone else's drama. A good friend here warned me back when I was a newb that if I wasn't careful I'd end up being a den mother and sucked into tenant drama. I did heed the warning. Don't get me wrong it's ok to care and to do the right thing. If you're ethical and fair in your dealings with the young woman she'll see the difference.

First thank you all for your responses. I do agree that

that I need to stay out of this. She is young and needs to learn to speak up for herself. I think deep down I knew that saying nothing was the only appropriate action but there is a part of me that just hates to see people being treated unethically.

As for the tenant, I did check the previous LL and it was positive but the previous rental was also with a roommate just after she graduated college. I generally place more emphasis on the most current.

Her bank statements proved beyond a doubt that the LL was lying about her payment history.

So far she has respond promptly to everything I've required; signed her lease electronically within 15 minutes of receipt and followed up by paying 2 months SD 10 minutes later. The fact that she a) had the funds for 2 months is a positive and b) that she elected to pay the SD 8 weeks in advance of taking possession.

If only we had a crystal ball. I've had some tenants with a rocky start turn out to be model tenants. I've also had excellent tenants deteriorate over time.

In the end it's really a crap shoot.

Hollis as a Broker I do not have the luxury of refusing to give references and they have to be truthful. As long as I have the documents (pay history, property condition, etc.) I am protected.

NC,

You are making me nervous.

You discovered a HE SAID/SHE SAID issue which sounds outrageous. On that alone I would deny.

A landlord gave you a strong NO but you are ignoring it.

Signing quickly is not an indicator of a good resident - Deadbeats are very cooperative, signing quickly before you discover their dirt.

I'm guessing you have not done the 2 Minute In Home Visit yet so you really don't know her ability to care for your investment. (hire a realtor for distance visits. I pay $50.)

My job is not to give people a chance, it's to find quality residents with a clear, drama free, on time payments, and good housekeeper record that is documented.

She MIGHT work out fine but you'll have to watch closely (more work on my part) and you are rolling the dice. I like sure things. I prefer not to gamble on people with my investments.

NC,

It seems like there are a lot of unknowns here...some of it seems to be verified (the bank statements), other things are just what this tenant is saying/claiming.

If she is relocating to another state for a job transfer, does the current landlord have an incentive to lie to try to keep her in his place?

I usually put more faith in an older landlord reference (if I can reach the LL) than the current one. But a bad reference is still bad. Maybe the LL is a nut and she's the perfect tenant. Or maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I'm worried that you may be getting emotionally invested in helping out this person and you may get burned if you rent to her.

I'm late and sounds like the lease is signed and the money accepted. There's a contract and NC INVESTOR is bound. The deal is done.

For the record, though, I echo Brad's and Oregon's sentiments. Something bad is being glossed over here. Will is surface and bite? Dunno. If I had a crystal ball...

That letter...oh boy. To me that is the proverbial "smoking gun." With her upcoming good job she should have been able to beg or borrow the rent money out of a relative, a friend, a local charity, some one. But instead she chose to let her land lord take it on the chin. If everything else were 100% good and I saw that letter, I would've gotten a copy somehow and denied her based on that alone. Applicants/Tenants never "tell me" that rent is going to be a month late. Unacceptable.

NC,

The "office" can deny the lease and return her money if you have not given possession. I recently did that. "Based on new information discovered after the initial offering."

Something is fishy about this one.

KEN:

With the exception of the LL I started this thread about I've only ever had one other tenant who'd rented from an independent LL. Every other rent verification is either coming from or going to professionally managed properties. The requirement is a verification form with a signed release. No one asks for or accepts verbal verification.

Could I decide not to complete the form or be selective about which sections of the I do complete? Legally sure. But good luck when I request a rent verification which is an integral part of our screening process. I can overlook some credit report dings before I overlook payment history.

Besides PM is a miniscule portion of our business. I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with Realty firms that we have to work with as seller/buyer agents by not cooperating with their PM divisions.

BRAD: I am truly appreciative for your concern. In fact, I am overwhelmed at both the volume of responses and the genuine concern from everyone to ensure I don't make a bad decision. This site is incredible (and more than slightly addictive).

After reading the responses I began to have second thoughts about accepting the tenant. I decided to search social media about the tenant and LL. I found a treasure trove of complaints about the LL. She goes to her properties almost weekly and enters without notice to check things out and leaves sticky notes around the house complaining about one thing or another.

Several tenants claim she blatantly lied on their references as she did with my applicant. The woman is obviously unhinged. Is the soon to be tenant perfect. No. Would I have accepted her letter for being one month late due to the job change? Perhaps. I remember when I was switched from bi-monthly to monthly paychecks. It was an adjustment.

Is her credit perfect? No. Her one CC is perfect as is her car payment. Her dings were student loans and as my nephew reminded me it can take months for our gov't to make the change back to deferred.