arrrghh pitbull companion
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arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Aug 16, 2017 2:24 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Aug 16, 2017 2:57 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by OPM [OR]) Aug 16, 2017 3:18 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by AllyM [NJ]) Aug 16, 2017 6:46 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Vee [OH]) Aug 16, 2017 7:17 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by DJ [VA]) Aug 16, 2017 8:07 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Lana [IN]) Aug 17, 2017 4:27 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Aug 17, 2017 4:51 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Aug 17, 2017 4:58 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by DIXIE [KS]) Aug 17, 2017 5:58 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 17, 2017 6:55 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by S i d [MO]) Aug 17, 2017 9:16 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Aug 17, 2017 9:19 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Aug 17, 2017 9:43 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Aug 17, 2017 9:44 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by TA [CA]) Aug 17, 2017 10:43 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 17, 2017 10:49 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 17, 2017 10:51 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by RockyMtnLL [CO]) Aug 17, 2017 8:09 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 18, 2017 8:17 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Randy [OH]) Aug 18, 2017 9:29 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Aug 18, 2017 12:33 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 18, 2017 5:35 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Aug 18, 2017 7:32 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Aug 19, 2017 2:56 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Aug 19, 2017 3:57 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Aug 19, 2017 4:48 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 19, 2017 2:19 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by Britt [NC]) Aug 20, 2017 5:25 AM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by don [PA]) Aug 22, 2017 1:47 PM
       arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Aug 23, 2017 11:40 AM


arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 2:24 PM
Message:

So I haven't had to face this untill recently,..but as I read the rules a person can have a pitbull or anyother breed as a "companion "animal. Tenant announced that she is getting a dog,..Dr says she can.

(and what family doctor will say no to signing something to allow it)

But I thought some insurance compaies will cancell you if you have certain dogs at your property. Has that changed? --71.192.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 2:57 PM
Message:

claim a religious belief that man and beast can't live under one roof. now you're exempt from those rules --50.4.xxx.x




arrrghh pitbull companion (by OPM [OR]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 3:18 PM
Message:

David... only if you can prove you claimed this position prior to the 'accomodation'.. HUD said. --162.247.xx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 6:46 PM
Message:

I hope she is not getting a pitbull. Since she does not have the dog you should be able to rule it has to be under twenty pounds. It's one thing to show up with a dog and quite another to decide to get one. If she is not calling it a comfort animal or any such thing and doesn't have it, allow it but specify the weight of dog full grown to eliminate a pit bull. --73.33.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 7:17 PM
Message:

If the dog becomes a hardship by your insurance list then it will not work, get it in writing from your carrier. --76.188.xxx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2017 8:07 PM
Message:

Not sure of the solution, but something definitely smells fishy. If it's a new "need" for an animal, she could get any type of cute, furry critter - why choose a pit bull?

Did she already have a connection to this dog before moving in (new tenant?)? --68.105.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 4:27 AM
Message:

I was a Family Doctor for 20 years before becoming a Hospitalist and I would not routinely write a note nor would I fill out the form for handicapped parking if it was not deserved. Doctors can be pretty tough, that's why the online fake form business is booming. --152.131.x.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 4:51 AM
Message:

Look up NSAR service dog certification site.

Says for service or emotional dog "if your policy says you only allow no more than 30 lbs and your dog weighs more you have to change your policy."

Also you cannot tell tenants you can't have a pitbull or any other breed.

Lots of misinformation here, I highly suggest to read and maybe print these rules because they might be new to you.

I would put up the web site but usually the monitor will reject the whole post,..

--96.236.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 4:58 AM
Message:

Lana, we have MD's locally that will give you pretty much anything you want.

There is a network that therapists, psychologists etc. will provide a list of docs that will sign they need a therapy dog.

They also recommend not telling LL that they have (staying at another property for a few months) or will be getting a dog until they get in and then telling the LL they will be getting a dog. They have a doctors note so you can do nothing. Then that trick is spread to others in the building that want a dog. --96.236.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by DIXIE [KS]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 5:58 AM
Message:

My insurance carrier has a listing of dog breeds and pit bull is on the list so I can't allow them.

However, my insurance provider stated that if the dog is a "service" dog, they will waive that regulation and allow the pitbull IF [and only IF] the tenant has an RX from their doctor.

I have always allowed dogs at all rentals and have never had any tenant say the dog was a "therapy" dog. Rarely have had damage from pets in last 30 years. --184.52.x.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 6:55 AM
Message:

Vee's advice is the best here. But you need to have it backed up IN WRITING from your insurance company that they WILL significantly increase or CANCEL your insurance if the tenant brings in an emotional support dog. (Going by the breed list alone is NOT enough -- you need a "this instance" letter from your insurance company stating that they will cancel you for THAT SPECIFIC animal.)

David's advice is likely illegal. AllyM's advice is likely illegal (you can't limit an ESA based on weight -- as Mark said).

In my experience, the insurance company will NOT issue you that specific letter. It'll be more like what Dixie said where they will grant an exception (because they don't want to be sued for a violation either).

So, in the end, you'll likely need to take this animal if all of the documentation is in order. (I did -- had a tenant with a proper pitbull ESA for about 8 months. In the end, had no problems with that tenant.)

Good luck!

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 9:16 AM
Message:

Yep, welcome to the entitled states of America. Not only can she have a pit bull regardless of your insurance company's policy, but she can have TWO, or THREE or (fill in the blank) with whatever number her "medical professional" decides she needs.

The "medical professional" in this case does not have to be a doctor. It could be a therapist, or an Internet document mill website that generates these letters for a few bucks. Fighting it is often a losing option. The law says you MUST accommodate, and too bad if that hurts you.

My solution: Step 1 - Say nothing to insurance. 95% chance they never find out and it's a non-issue. Side note: The ESA/companion animal cannot cause damages, be a nuisance to neighbors, or nip/attack people.

Inspect frequently. If you find damages or there is repeat aggression, you may have grounds to have the animal and/or tenant removed.

Step 2 - If you are in the unlucky 5% and insurance finds out and threatens to drop you, offer to sign an exclusion of liability for the dog and then purchase a renter's policy FOR your tenant naming YOU as an additional insured. My agent recommended this process to me when someone put up a trampoline. $14/month for $250K liability coverage. So the lawyers would go after that easy money first. This is not fool proof, but it is one step to help CYA.

Step 3 - Non-renew the lease/rental agreement as soon as possible for no reason whatsoever. If you can't do that in your state, jack the rent up to where the tenant will move. If you can't do that....arsenic in a steak tossed over the back fence (kidding!).

In that case, you're investing in an area that is too friendly to tenants and it's time to sell. All of this hubbub is somewhat overblown. The incident of attacks is not as high as many think. Still, the whole process of ESA (emotional support animals / companion animals) galls me. I find creative ways to fight it legally whenever I can. --173.19.xx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 9:19 AM
Message:

Mark (NY) Just so you know. You can include a website address in your post (as long as it is not spam). Just remove the letters "http" from the front of the URL address. --72.214.xx.x




arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 9:43 AM
Message:

John , if hobby lobby can get an exemption to birth control rules based on their closely held religious belief and a wedding cake baker is about to get exemption to anti-discrimination laws, then so too can a landlord get exemption to fair housing laws --12.156.xxx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by David [MI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 9:44 AM
Message:

My religious belief that "man and beast shall not live under one roof" is no more ridiculous than those of hobby lobby or wedding cake baker --12.156.xxx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by TA [CA]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 10:43 AM
Message:

You can deny a support animal because of breed if it causes you a financial hardship.

From fhcwm.org/uploads/files/reports/HUD_Memo_-_RA_Breed_Restrictions_Insurance.pdf

If a housing provider's insurance carrier would cancel, substantially increase the costs of the insurance policy, or adversely change the policy terms because of the presence of a certain breed of dog or a certain animal, HUD will find that this imposes an undue financial and administrative burden on the housing provider.

--75.149.xx.x




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 10:49 AM
Message:

David: You are more than welcome to be the guinea pig to try to make some case law for all of us. I simply don't want to be that person -- and don't think suggesting that some unknowing landlord be that person is really fair either.

Right now, to do that, it is likely illegal -- exactly as I said. Again, if someone wants to try to CHANGE that, then so be it. I just don't think it is fair to suggest to some newbie that is asking a question to go ahead and gamble with possibly breaking the law in the hope that they are the next Hobby Lobby case!

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 10:51 AM
Message:

TA: Correct, but as I said above, HUD has also made it clear that it is NOT enough to just go "I think my insurance would be cancelled because this breed is on the dangerous breed list that they gave me." HUD has stated that it must be based on the specific animal itself. Therefore, as I said, you'd need a letter from your insurance company specifically stating that they WOULD cancel if you rented to this particular person with this particular animal.

You cannot base a hardship exception just on an insurance company's dangerous breed list.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by RockyMtnLL [CO]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2017 8:09 PM
Message:

Is all of this reason enough to abort the year-long leases and go for month-to-month's instead? Ending a lease at the end of a term is very easy. If a tenant shows up with an animal you don't like, then just do not renew. I had a tenant on a year-long lease get one dog, then demanded a second dog. She was pushy about it and the dogs were another problem. She was also a hoarder. Needless to say, I regretted having her on a year-long lease. I gave her over 2 months notice that her lease was not going to be continued. Next tenant is a dream in comparison! --69.130.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2017 8:17 AM
Message:

The problem with that idea is that your PLAN from the start appears to be "If the tenant has an ESA and I don't want it there, then I'll just terminate the MTM agreement" -- which is clearly illegal discrimination.

I disagree with making changes to my leasing procedure for the EXACT purpose of being able to more easily illegally discriminate!

Just seems like a poor way to run your business.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2017 9:29 AM
Message:

Rocky, I plan to use a MTM in a case where I haven't yet signed the lease. 2 weeks after moving in T says he has a Rx for an ESA and it will be a Great Dane.

I plan to include the following:

1. Monthly inspections.

2. Any damages will be billed immediately.

3. $25 charge any time we have to clean up dog waste.

4. Monthly rent will be applied to any unpaid charges first.

5. If all goes well, no problem. If there are any problems, I will either raise the rent or give 30-day notice to vacate.

--24.171.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2017 12:33 PM
Message:

John, since you can choose to terminate a month to month agreement for any reason (in most places) or choose not to renew a lease this is not illegal discrimination.

If you want an undesirable ESA then it behooves you to lock yourself into a longer lease term or find a landlord who is more open to having animals live in their home.

It's pretty much the only means of protection a landlord has these days.

There are consequences when you have laws which unfairly protect the rights of one party over those of another. --173.170.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2017 5:35 PM
Message:

LisaFL: You can LEGALLY choose to terminate a MTM for any non-discriminatory reason. If you choose to terminate because you don't like a legit ESA, then that IS illegal discrimination!

This isn't complex people. If you have a MTM, are told by a tenant that they now have an ESA, and you terminate the next month "without reason", then expect to be in court soon. And expect to lose. Unless you are ready and able to give a judge a GOOD reason why you terminated "without reason" that MTM agreement. You think a judge deciding discrimination cases is going to accept that bull??

- John...

--96.40.xx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Aug 18, 2017 7:32 PM
Message:

You can terminate because you don't like the tenant and no longer wish to do business with him.

You can terminate simply because you want to offer the home to another person. You don't have to have any reason at all once the terms of the agreement are completed.

I could come up with many reasons to justify my decision if I chose not to renew with someone. But then again I don't have to. In my state you can terminate an agreement for no reason with proper notice. --173.170.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2017 2:56 AM
Message:

"In my state you can terminate an agreement for no reason with proper notice"

Lisa, (and all those reading), please don't discount John's warning above simply because you think you have a good understanding of your state laws. The fair housing agencies play by a whole additional set of rules beyond normal landlord-tenant laws for your state.

When representatives of fair housing starts asking for copies of all your applications, all your leases, additional documents (for multiple years) connected to the rental, and conducts interviews with anyone and everyone who may be familiar with your tenant's situation.....

you will not be able to use as an argument, "In my state you can terminate an agreement for no reason with proper notice"

--172.56.x.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Jeffrey [VA]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2017 3:57 AM
Message:

By the way, the additional documents that the fair agency representative may request include: your written tenant selection criteria, screening policies, move-in and move-out reports, and YOUR specific and written fair housing policies as it relates to service and support animals along with your rental track history (or lack of) with such....

Again folks, I can not over-emphasize the fact that the fair housing agencies play by a whole additional set of rules beyond normal landlord-tenant laws for your state.

You do NOT want to find yourself in the middle of their COSTLY investigation (even if you think you are in the right) where you are legally required to respond and provide all requested documents, simply because you are trying to avoid renting to a support animal. --172.56.x.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2017 4:48 AM
Message:

Good info Jeffery. Thanks for sharing. I agree it's important to be prepared. --173.170.xxx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 19, 2017 2:19 PM
Message:

Thank you for the confirmation, Jeffrey. Much appreciated.

- John...

--96.40.xx.xx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by Britt [NC]) Posted on: Aug 20, 2017 5:25 AM
Message:

Companion service animals aren't pets. They should be treated like an extension of the person. Don't be afraid of pit bulls. I have two shelter pit bulls and they are excellent house dogs. They are lazy, they don't shed much and the hype makes them excellent guard dogs. Meanwhile, behind closed doors the cat bosses them around. --99.182.xx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by don [PA]) Posted on: Aug 22, 2017 1:47 PM
Message:

A companion animal is different from a service animal. --70.90.xx.xxx




arrrghh pitbull companion (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 23, 2017 11:40 AM
Message:

Don: Not really when it comes to how the law that we, as Landlords, have to follow (the FHAA).

Are they technically "different", yes? But they are treated almost exactly the same when it comes to how we have to deal with them. What we can ask or require is slightly different, but that's about it.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx





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