Emotional support dog
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Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 7, 2017 3:20 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Aug 7, 2017 3:55 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Aug 7, 2017 6:03 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Nellie [ME]) Aug 7, 2017 6:20 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 7, 2017 6:34 PM
       Emotional support dog (by AllyM [NJ]) Aug 7, 2017 7:09 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Lana [IN]) Aug 7, 2017 7:50 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Laura [MD]) Aug 7, 2017 7:54 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 7, 2017 8:00 PM
       Emotional support dog (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Aug 7, 2017 11:55 PM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 8, 2017 6:48 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 8, 2017 7:15 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 8, 2017 7:35 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Pat [VA]) Aug 8, 2017 8:49 AM
       Emotional support dog (by laura murray [MD]) Aug 8, 2017 8:52 AM
       Emotional support dog (by CDM [CA]) Aug 8, 2017 8:54 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Barb [MO]) Aug 8, 2017 8:54 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 8, 2017 9:09 AM
       Emotional support dog (by oregonwoodsmoke [OR]) Aug 8, 2017 10:06 AM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 8, 2017 10:10 AM
       Emotional support dog (by TA [CA]) Aug 8, 2017 4:11 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Aug 8, 2017 4:21 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Aug 9, 2017 5:19 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 9, 2017 7:17 AM
       Emotional support dog (by LisaFL [FL]) Aug 9, 2017 10:41 AM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 9, 2017 1:06 PM
       Emotional support dog (by LisaFL [FL]) Aug 9, 2017 1:22 PM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 9, 2017 1:49 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Aug 9, 2017 8:17 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Chris [CA]) Aug 10, 2017 2:12 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Robin [WI]) Aug 10, 2017 9:57 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 10, 2017 10:20 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Aug 10, 2017 3:07 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Aug 11, 2017 8:23 AM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 11, 2017 10:27 AM
       Emotional support dog (by MC [PA]) Aug 12, 2017 3:37 AM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 12, 2017 8:18 AM
       Emotional support dog (by Don [PA]) Aug 12, 2017 11:19 AM
       Emotional support dog (by cjo'h [CT]) Aug 12, 2017 12:38 PM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 12, 2017 2:38 PM
       Emotional support dog (by Don [PA]) Aug 12, 2017 11:20 PM
       Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Aug 13, 2017 10:00 AM

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Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 3:20 PM
Message:

Need some advice on a difficult situation. 3 BR house with a 1 BR mobile home in the back yard. The 2 units have separate driveways. Very good tenants in the house for 2.5 years.

On July 20th, I rented the MH to a 27-year old single male tenant with a 2-year, no-pet lease. I try to be very careful to rent to someone who will not be a problem for the house tenants. Thus, the no-pet rule.

On August 4th, I received a message from my property manager stating that the new MH tenant says he has a doctor's prescription for a dog and the dog will be a Great Dane.

My concern is the tenants in the house will move out and I will not be able to rent the house because of this huge dog living in their back yard. I rent the house for $585/mo and the MH for $325/mo

This probably doesn't matter, but I have not yet signed the lease, because I live in another state and I have not yet received it from my PM.

How would you handle this?

Thanks

--24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 3:55 PM
Message:

Contact the doctor office on the letterhead and ask if they have been to housing court for any clients, the doctor should be located very to the person old house. --76.188.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 6:03 PM
Message:

Separate the backyard into two sections, one for the house and one for the mobile home. Let the dog play in his back yard and let the children play in theirs. Make the home's fence a tall wood fence and make the mobile home's a tall chain-link fence so the dog can't break it down.

Or, sell the mobile home or move it to another property or convert it to storage.

--108.69.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 6:20 PM
Message:

I agree that the fence would be the best solution. Both tenants will probably enjoy having the fence and privacy from one another. --70.16.xx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 6:34 PM
Message:

A fence would not be feasible because of the configuration of the 2 units. --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 7:09 PM
Message:

Oh gees, I can't imagine this nonsense. I would say no and go through any court case or anything that comes up rather than stick a Great Dane in a trailer. I don't think there is a judge in the US who would not agree with you.

If the new tenant has not yet moved in, destroy something on the trailer that makes it not habitable but that you can fix. Send the renter a notice that the property has tragically had an issue. Send back any monies and gift him with a few bucks. Take a sigh of relief, wait a month or two and relist it in some way that disguises it. --73.33.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 7:50 PM
Message:

Consider checking Facebook and if pictures exist of Great Dane before July 20, he lied on application. People love to put their dog pictures on Facebook. I ask for all animals rather than pets be listed.

Check your insurance and see if Great Dane is allowed, keeping the Tenant may then create a potential economic hardship for you.

I wonder if the prescription will be from an Ohio practitioner or an online prescription mill?

--216.23.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 7:54 PM
Message:

We as landlords need push back on this legislation. It is an open door to folks and their dogs.

I would not sign the lease. Hopefully you can turn him down for something else. You have final say as the owner,. Blame it on the PM giving permission, before you agreed. I assume there is noting in writing indicating that you would rent to him. --108.28.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 8:00 PM
Message:

Lane,

Unfortunately, GD is not on the prohibited dog list of my ins co.

What if I can prove he lied on the app? I would still be evicting him because of the dog, right?

Thanks --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Aug 7, 2017 11:55 PM
Message:

Randy,

I do like the idea of checking his FB.

I also want a copy of his app in my hands. Did the PM screen for animals?

For the record, I learned from our local Fair Housing Director that a doctor's prescription is NOT acceptable (in her office) to qualify as an Emotional Support Animal with no animal fees. My experience is that most say that but don't really have one.

Daughter24 has a Great Dane. 156 pounds. Was the runt of the litter. These dogs are incredibly docile. No running or jumping. Mostly laying around (takes up the whole floor!) and lumbering along on a walk.

I am not concerned about the dog doing damage as long as it is housebroken and managed by it's owner.

My concern is the romatic notion this guy wants a status symbol dog. They are a HUGE investment EVERYHING costs more due to it's size. Boarding, vet, shots...

What you REALLY should be concerned about is your res' ability to continue paying rent when he starts feeding that dog!! 100 pounds of food a month!

BRAD

--68.50.xx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 6:48 AM
Message:

Does your application ask if they have any ANIMALS or does it ask if they have any PETS? If it says "pets", then they did NOT lie on the app by not listing the animal.

I agree that some landlord needs to push back on these sort of things. But the question is: do YOU want to be in the guinea pig that tries to make case law? (This goes back to the "Right or Rich" argument, of course.)

Whatever you do, I would NOT recommend that you follow AllyM's advice of committing two illegal acts and then hope it goes well afterwards. Some of the "advice" on this forum never ceases to amaze me. :) Sheesh.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 7:15 AM
Message:

Thanks, Brad.

What kind of document does your local FH director require?

I like your idea that the dog actually may not be much of a problem. But my concern is that my tenants in the house in front of the MH will freak out and move. They have 2 boys, 9 and 11. What are your thoughts on losing my house tenants?

Randy --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 7:35 AM
Message:

John,

My application says pets, and I see your point. Legally, an ESA is not a pet. But I seriously doubt that this guy was making that distinction when he filled out the application. I feel pretty sure that his intent was to lie.

I also found another lie on his application. He checked a box that says he has never been involved in a civil lawsuit. However, I have discovered that he was, in fact, sued by a former LL for damages.

So he clearly submitted a fraudulent application. But is there any way I can use this to solve my problem?

I am thinking about confronting him with this and then threaten to evict him. Maybe he would voluntarily move out to avoid having an eviction on his record.

Thoughts? --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Pat [VA]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 8:49 AM
Message:

Move out? So the property manager let him move in before you signed the lease? Your answer is in the civil lawsuit check in box never having been sued. Stick with something rock solid. Case closed! --76.4.xx.xx




Emotional support dog (by laura murray [MD]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 8:52 AM
Message:

I would go after property manager. Moved in with no signed lease. I would begin evicting him as a squatter, no signed lease? --108.28.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by CDM [CA]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 8:54 AM
Message:

The lie about not being sued when he was in fact sued by another LL would definitely be enough for me to disqualify him. I would reject on that basis. --24.130.xx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 8:54 AM
Message:

The property manager already gave him keys?

You need to school the PM. He didn't do his due diligence on the guy before he moved in.

If he doesn't yet have keys, refund his money and refuse to issue them due to lying on the application.

If he has keys, let your front tenant know the guy is a short timer and you will be working to get him out ASAP. After all, you know he is going to screw up something. --64.251.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 9:09 AM
Message:

To clarify the situation. This guy has been living in my MH since 7/20. I am past the point of just rejecting him.

Also, I do not use a professional PM. I actually manage my properties myself with the assistance of a very trustworthy handyman/manager.

When I accept a new T, I have them meet with my h/mgr. He takes their money and has them sign the lease. Then he mails the lease to me. I then sign it and mail a copy to the the T.

As previously mentioned, I have not yet signed this lease. I am wondering if I can evict him as a squatter. I communicated with him by email. So he will be able show an email where I accepted him as a T for this property. Of course, that was before I discovered that he lied on his application.

Thoughts?

--24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by oregonwoodsmoke [OR]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 10:06 AM
Message:

You might try changing your application so it reads to list all animals that will be living on the property and that all animals must be declared at the time of the application, including service animals and emotional support animals.

You can't really turn down an emotional support animal but you can carefully follow the law to verify that the dog is a legal support animal. --72.35.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 10:10 AM
Message:

I don't think the answer here is to try to argue he's a squatter! You (or your agent) apparently had him sign the lease and gave him keys! He's not a squatter by any means.

You COULD try to terminate the lease based on the fact that you found out he lied on his lease -- but, in general, tryign to forcible evict for even a lease violation is usually difficult (anything other than nonpayment of rent). I'm not sure, if it went to court, that you'd get an eviction for "incorrect application information" AFTER you had accepted him.

That being said, you can always try and hope it doesn't go to court. Contact him and say that you've just discovered that he was sued by a previous landlord and that is against your written criteria (and make sure it is) and, therefore, you cannot rent to him. See if he'll vacate peacefully based on that.

Then go from there.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by TA [CA]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 4:11 PM
Message:

You only have to make a reasonable accommodation for an emotional support animal. It is possible that the specific animal in question poses a threat to the health and safety of others and if that is the case you do not have to allow it. Breed, size, and weight limits may not be used under HUD law, you must consider the specific animal in question. --75.149.xx.x




Emotional support dog (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Posted on: Aug 8, 2017 4:21 PM
Message:

Be happy you arent in ontario, you would probably have to pay to feed the PET dog as well. --70.30.xx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 5:19 AM
Message:

What area of OH are you in? You mentioned that you discovered a civil suit because your screening was not effective, has the debt been paid? --76.188.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 7:17 AM
Message:

Tuscarawas County. No, debt not paid.

I also checked his FB page and there are many pictures of the dog. Some of the pictures were posted 2 years ago. But I don't know if that really matters.

If he just got the Rx, does it matter that he has had the dog for 2 years? --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 10:41 AM
Message:

If he said he had no dogs on application and he said had a dog for several years, he lied. A dog whether a pet or an ESA is still a dog which he knew he had.

You're not denying him because he has an ESA, you're denying him for multiple lies on his application. That speaks to his character. I wouldn't want him as a tenant. He's a liar. --173.170.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 1:06 PM
Message:

LisaFL: Did you read the above before you posted? I specifically asked him what his application said and he says it asks how many PETS the person has. Not how many ANIMALS and not how many DOGS. It asks how many PETS only.

Therefore, if the animal is an ESA, then he did not lie on the application.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 1:22 PM
Message:

Yes, John, of course. I simply agreed with Randy as it's obvious his intent was to lie.

He's owned a dog all along.

And he did lie about about the civil suit. The applicant is a liar, clear as a sun shiny day. I don't rent to folks with questionable moral character. It's not a good sign. --173.170.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 1:49 PM
Message:

I agree with refusing on the non-animal-related grounds (such as the civil suit). But the rest is dangerous to do anything with. We can call his intent "obvious" all we want -- but it doesn't mean that a judge would see it that way. :)

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 9, 2017 8:17 PM
Message:

I would ask him to come back after the landlord debt is paid as reported on the court website. --76.188.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Chris [CA]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2017 2:12 AM
Message:

WT-? Is the 27 y.o. working? Wouldn't it be kinda cruel to keep a dog cooped up for what, 10 hours 5 days a week?

Why now? How has he been coping the previous 27 years?

I would fight this tooth and nail. Why not a gold fish? a small squirrel?

I'd want to see that "prescription" and then go after the doctor. SCC? That will get his attention!

Is that a psychiatrist?

Why not a pony? Pigs are good pets, too ;-) --78.43.xx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2017 9:57 AM
Message:

So, you blew it. You accepted the applicant, took his money, gave him the keys and THEN finished screening and found out he had a civil suit. The fact that you didn't sign the lease yet is irrelevant. You (your agent acting under your direction) took his money and gave him the keys.

Count it as a learning opportunity. What to do now?

1) Verify ESA documents. If they're invalid, issue a three-day notice and proceed with eviction if he doesn't get rid of the dog or move.

2) If you can't contest the documents, address the issue of the tenants getting along. Maybe you could arrange a meet-and-greet of dog and kids, with the kids adequately supplied with dog biscuits. You might be surprised to find that the other tenants are happy for their kids to "have a dog" without any of the upkeep or expense. Maybe the new guy could pay them to walk his dog while he's at work. This could be a win-win if you present it the right way.

I'd be concerned about the damage suit, but that's water under the bridge. He's in. You just need to figure out how to control the damage to YOU. --204.210.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2017 10:20 AM
Message:

Robin,

Correct, I blew it on my screening. Lesson learned.

Your suggestions are pretty much what I have been thinking.

We asked him for a copy of the Rx on 8/6. So far, he has not responded.

I really like your ideas on the meet and greet. If he produces the Rx, that is probably the route I will take.

Thanks,

Randy --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 10, 2017 3:07 PM
Message:

You have to verify the RX, don't mess this up 2 times. --76.188.xxx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Randy [OH]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2017 8:23 AM
Message:

Vee,

How would you verify the Rx? --24.171.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 11, 2017 10:27 AM
Message:

An "Rx" isn't even required. You can't require one.

You can require a letter (which certainly might not be a prescription) from a healthcare professional.

If you want to call that healthcare professional to confirm that the letter is legit, then so be it.

But that's about it.

There's no such thing as a "prescription" for an ESA -- even though people say that all the time. It isn't what they really mean. Doctors don't write prescriptions for dogs. They write letters verifying that the person has a disability and that the animal provides support/improvement/normality for that person.

- John...

--207.241.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 3:37 AM
Message:

So,once again,the animal will be with him wherever he goes??Grocery store,restaurant,work? --75.75.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 8:18 AM
Message:

No. Emotional Support Animals do not have protection under the ADA. Therefore, they can still be not allowed in grocery stores, restaurants, work, and so on.

ESAs are only protected in housing and airlines (under two different laws -- neither of which is the ADA).

So, not only does he not HAVE to take the ESA with him when he goes out -- in many cases he legally wouldn't be ALLOWED to.

- John...

--96.40.xx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Don [PA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 11:19 AM
Message:

John, the applicant has had the dog for two years, When did he get the doctor's letter re emotional support animal? Before that time the dog was a pet. If the applicant wrote " no pets" on the application before he had the doctor's letter, he did lie on the application. --73.199.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 12:38 PM
Message:

Randy,you have a lot of tightening up on you application process. That handyman ,that fills in as a manager is a ninecompoop,maybe he is OK to fix something,but that's it.As for your tenant in the trailer, if he damaged something before and didn't pay for it, your next.The dog is probably much better than the tenant.so if you could get rid of him and keep the dog,you'ld be ahead of the game.also you should charge the same for the trailer as for the other apartment.the fence,just move the trailer back to where you can put the fence.Or was the handyman not able to think that far ahead.Charlie............................... --174.199.xx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 2:38 PM
Message:

Don: It really doesn't matter. He could have considered it an ESA previously, but didn't need written documentation until he applied for an apartment, for example. Him not listing it as a "pet" on the application isn't necessarily a lie -- regardless of how long he's had the dog.

He lied elsewhere on the application, right? So I don't see how this matters. If you want to deny for lying then deny for lying -- it doesn't have anything to do with the ESA. And pulling the ESA into it just makes it a liability.

- John...

--96.40.xx.xx




Emotional support dog (by Don [PA]) Posted on: Aug 12, 2017 11:20 PM
Message:

I disagree. What he considered the dog to be has no relevance, it was not an esa until the doc authorized it. --73.199.xxx.xxx




Emotional support dog (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Aug 13, 2017 10:00 AM
Message:

That's simply not how the FHAA works, in my opinion. But feel free to be the guinea pig for it in court and make us some case law! Good luck!

- John...

--71.13.xx.xx



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