Bed bugs (by Mike [PA]) Jun 23, 2017 7:37 AM
Bed bugs (by NE [PA]) Jun 23, 2017 7:55 AM
Bed bugs (by S i d [MO]) Jun 23, 2017 8:12 AM
Bed bugs (by WMH [NC]) Jun 23, 2017 8:18 AM
Bed bugs (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 23, 2017 8:24 AM
Bed bugs (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Jun 23, 2017 8:51 AM
Bed bugs (by R [OH]) Jun 23, 2017 9:04 AM
Bed bugs (by OPM [OR]) Jun 23, 2017 9:29 AM
Bed bugs (by S i d [MO]) Jun 23, 2017 9:37 AM
Bed bugs (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 23, 2017 10:42 AM
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 23, 2017 11:59 AM
Bed bugs (by Mike [PA]) Jun 23, 2017 12:09 PM
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 23, 2017 12:38 PM
Bed bugs (by AllyM [NJ]) Jun 23, 2017 2:12 PM
Bed bugs (by AllyM [NJ]) Jun 23, 2017 2:15 PM
Bed bugs (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Jun 23, 2017 2:34 PM
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 24, 2017 11:29 AM
Bed bugs (by elliot [RI]) Jun 24, 2017 11:58 AM
Bed bugs (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 24, 2017 12:00 PM
Bed bugs (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 24, 2017 12:05 PM
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 24, 2017 3:44 PM
Bed bugs (by Mike [PA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 7:37 AM Message:
This will now apparently bankrupt my LL business.
3rd location this year with Bedbugs. We've tried all the commercial sprays, the do your own site kits, powders and while it worked, it is not eliminating them.
Called in a extermination company and they said this.."We no longer spray we only do heat treatments, Spraying is working but will not kill all, there is an epidemic in eastern PA and we found that spraying has us coming back shortly after.
at $2k per property for heat treatments, I'm done
What is everyone doing about the bed bug epidemic.
Oh and don't ask the tenants to pay this, it IS the owners responsibility in this area. all they have to do is make a phone call and it's all on me. --209.221.xxx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 7:55 AM Message:
Regardless if I pay or not, a tenant with bedbugs would be getting notice to vacate asap. --50.107.xxx.x |
Bed bugs (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 8:12 AM Message:
If it is true that you are always responsible and under no circumstances can you charge them...then yes it's time to get out. That kind of legislation is insane and you probably should have gotten out before as it is impossible to pay $2000 per unit when even GOOD tenants can bring bugs in without knowing it.
All they have to do is sit in one Uber car where someone with bed bugs sat and you catch them. Or when they move in if they rent a U-Haul and the last person who rented it had bugs....they catch them. It's not a poor or rich issue...
But first, I would double check. If you just heard the "conventional wisdom" from a bug guy or another land lord ...that isn't the gospel. Find a super-competent, aggressive land lord/tenant attorney and be 200% sure you are correct that you are ALWAYS responsible, no matter what, even if the unit was certified clean of bugs by a licensed pest control expert prior to them moving in. The attorney will only charge you $100 or $200 for a brief consultation. Worth it considering the loss you're preparing to take. Don't bail out until you are absolutely sure.
It's sad that legislators who are ignorant about the reality of rentals are destroying the rental industry in their state with illogical laws like this. I hope you find a different answer. --173.19.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 8:18 AM Message:
We had tenants totally eliminate bedbugs with food grade diatomaceous earth. They had brought them in with thrift store furniture and couldn't afford the pro treatment. So we bought them the food-grade DE, steered them to videos on You Tube on how to use it, and, though it took some dedication and work on their part, it totally worked. --173.22.xx.xx |
Bed bugs (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 8:24 AM Message:
1. Check if your state has retaliatory eviction statute.
2. Temprid SC is effective against bedbugs. It is necessary to perform the treatment correctly and completely.
3. It is NOT impossible to pay $2000 per unit. You don't have any problem to collect a large windfall in the form of an ETF. do you? Part of being a business is to take your losses and still carry on. $2000 is only $167 per month under a single-year tenancy. I raised rents by $100 per month last fall.
4. Even if you get a new tenant, the bedbugs will still be there, and the $2000 will still have to be spent.
--47.139.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 8:51 AM Message:
Mike, I understand your frustration. In Ontario it is also the landlords esponsibilty to pay the cost of bedbug removal. ...regardless of how they were brought in or how many times they are brought in. And if the tenant cant prepare their apt for traetment due to some handicap or inability, the onus is on the landlord to accomodate the tenants needs.
In addition a landlord might have to replace the tenants belongings if they have to be thrown out.
Our rent increases are limited to about 1 percent annually and there are no ETFs. --99.225.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by R [OH]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 9:04 AM Message:
Hi Mike,
Sorry to hear that. I don't know how many units you have but is it possible to do the heat treatment yourself along with the chemicals? When I had two units heat treated it sounds like the guy went there with a heating unit and heated clothing and other stuff. I've seen the equipment for sale at the do it yourself pest control places and I saw where Home Depot rents a heating unit in my area. Good luck. --12.47.xx.xx |
Bed bugs (by OPM [OR]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 9:29 AM Message:
Mike... there is a wealth of info on BB
This one from the CDC;
The following is from the CDC (Center for Disease Control) FAQ:
Bed bugs (cimex lectularius) are small, flat, parasitic insects that feed on the blood of people and animals while they sleep.
Bed bug infestations usually occur around or near the areas where people sleep.
Signs of them may take up to 14 days, to be revealed, and may have come from some other location as noted.
*Bed bugs feed on warm blooded mammals, and so would typically not be in empty homes. They are always in groups not singularly.
*They are typically brought to the property in furniture or clothing and pets and thus maybe the responsibility of the tenant for cause.
* Bed bugs do move,
but do not travel, like mice or roaches.
These pests attach to something or someone.
*They hide during the day in dark places such as on bodies, seams of mattresses, box springs, bed frames, behind headboards, dresser tables,
inside cracks or crevices, behind wallpaper, or any other clutter or objects around a bed.
They arrive in packages, suitcases, freight, furniture, or items from overseas as well as other methods such as on pets or people.
Bed bugs are not be considered as a medical or public health hazard. Bed bugs are not known to spread disease.
--162.247.xx.xx |
Bed bugs (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 9:37 AM Message:
Moshe, I know you have some contrarian views on things vs. many posters here, and I get a lot out of considering things from your POV. But how do you logically consider paying a fee to terminate a contract as a free money windfall that is supposed to offset a scenario when a tenant brings in bedbugs and the land lord has to pay for a situation they had zero role in creating?
ETF is not a windfall. It is a fee the land lord accepts to assume a set of risks and costs on a tenant's behalf that would otherwise be their responsibility under the contract terms. No need to list all of them here. We know they can be considerable, and the LL deserves to be compensated for agreeing to let the tenant leave with no further obligations.
Maybe this is a case of mincing words, but to me windfalls are when dear old Aunt Tilly heads off to glory and leaves you her priceless collection of autographed Neal Young 8-tracks and an IRA worth $1 million. --173.19.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 10:42 AM Message:
" ETF is not a windfall. It is a fee the land lord accepts to assume a set of risks and costs on a tenant's behalf that would otherwise be their responsibility under the contract terms. "
The ETF is a liquidated damages payment paid as compensation for damages incurred by landlord because of tenant not completing the lease term. If it is compared to the actual damages suffered by landlord, there is often money left over after the actual expenses have been paid. In most, probably all jurisdictions, landlord is required to minimize his actual loss, by taking whatever reasonable action that he can. Thus, a payment of two or three month's rent will cover much more than landlord's lost rent. There is no compensation for risk. You are right, Sid, that BY DEFINITION, an ETF is not a windfall, but by design, it turns out to be one. Liquidated damages clauses have as assumptions, that the amount MUST be commensurate with the amount of actual damages to be incurred and thus the use of large ETFs are forbidden by legal principles, although I am aware than many posters here claim that their local judge rubber-stamps any old amount.
If a tenant brings in bedbugs, it is landlord's responsibility to ameliorate. In most, if not all jurisdictions, if the tenant was responsible, AND IF LANDLORD CAN PROVE IT, then landlord may recover damages. That landlord had zero role in creating the bedbug situation is irrelevant, without that proof. Its part of doing business. And, lets not forget, that bedbug epidemic proliferation as it seems to have become these days, may also create a situation in which TENANT had zero role in creating. Part of what landlord is paid for (rent) is the risk of insect harborage, including the probabilities that is was not tenants fault, or that it was tenant's fault without proof. Thats what business is all about.
By the way, an ETF is not COMPENSATION to landlord for his agreement to let the tenant leave with no further obligations. It is reimbursement for his ACTUAL LOSSES incurred BECAUSE the tenant left. The tenant may leave any time he wants. He doesn't need landlord's prior agreement to "let" him do it. The ETF is simply agreement on how to do the accounting of the loss, and that accounting is governed by rules to prevent abuse.
--47.139.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 11:59 AM Message:
Mike,
I feel your pain.
I suggest checking around. Locally, heat treatments have become very competitive which is bringing the costs waaay down to a few hundred dollars per unit.
A local handyman bought 2 heaters and is now doing heat treatments because it does not require a license. He is booked up 3 weeks in advance by LLs. Uses diesel fuel.
Perhaps finding your own heaters? Greentechheat.com has a great set of training videos.
This site has DIY elec sets starting at $1700.
What are WE doing? We are treating every home at turnover, sealing up anything that can be sealed, included BB training in the lease and spend a few minutes verbally training at each lease signing. Most new residents don't have a clue about keeping their home safe from BBs or what to do when they find them. Our 2 Minute In Home visit lets us see their current home. Although we do not inspect for BBs we ask and people are very open about their experience in this casual non-LL situation.
My lease is clear: it includes instructions to the resident about their responsibility if BBs are found, such as removing ALL personal items such as clothing.
I'd love to hear what you come up with because we're all just months or a year behind you.
BRAD --68.50.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by Mike [PA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 12:09 PM Message:
Tx for the input.
I'm certainly going to check around. It also seems there is disagreement in the pest industry as to which method, heat or chemicals are the best method.
The unfortunate thing is if you go all out and spend the money for the heat treatment, the company will tell you that without the maintenance plan they could be back in 2 months and then your starting all over.
What I mean by being responsible is that regardless of what the lease says mine says tenant is responsible for pest control), the bottom line is the city will put the responsibility on the owner so as to eliminate future infestations at other neighboring homes.
Yes I can try to get reimbursed by the tenant but you can't get blood from a stone. --174.201.x.xxx |
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 12:38 PM Message:
My concern with heat treatment is the res can re-introduce BBs later that day.
BRAD --68.50.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 2:12 PM Message:
There is a local company here with a dog that sniffs them out and they freeze them with their device that uses dry ice or whatever. I always remember the name of their dog from the commercials but never the company name. Roscoe the BedBug dog. I will go try to find the company name. They travel so would come to your area. --73.33.xxx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 2:15 PM Message:
It's Bell environmental d o t com or phone toll free 877-376-1775 and they are in Fairfield NJ --73.33.xxx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by Andrew, Canada [ON]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2017 2:34 PM Message:
A landlord I know bought his own heaters and treats infected apts himself. They are electric heaters. He had a couple of 240v lines run in his rooming house for this issue. --99.225.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2017 11:29 AM Message:
Mike,
Another short video showing the critters as the temps rise. 113 degrees for live ones and 120? for eggs. youtube.com/watch?v=GufBz_iXzbQ
I'm wondering if a salamander or 2 plus fans woudl do the trick.
BRAD --68.50.xx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2017 11:58 AM Message:
Second WMH, I have done 10+ bedbug treatment for my tenants including 2-3 severe infested.. (severe means you can see the them crawling at the mattress). I have yet failed one..
The shortest treatment is one visit, less than a week.. The longest is less than a month.. No exception..
I bought 50 lb. from amazon for less than $60, it has paid itself 100s times.. (I used to pay $700 per unit and half of them failed cos tenants won't cooperate)..
With DE, minimal cooperation required.. no bringing all clothes to laundry mat to dry, no pull everything out of drawers.... --73.218.xxx.xxx |
Bed bugs (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2017 12:00 PM Message:
Are these SFH's, and it's on you???
When I did my heat treatment, they charged per square foot, then doubled it, to treat both the interior of the house as well as underneath the house.
My tenants moved because they weren't willing to comply with the pre-treatment checklist.
Will post the pre-treatment checklist separately, in case it gets held up... --96.46.xxx.xx |
Bed bugs (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2017 12:05 PM Message:
Here were the high points of my heat treatment pre-treatment checklist. As you can tell, it's much easier to treat an empty house...
* Don’t worry about laundering or dry cleaning anything in the area to be treated. Heat treatment will disinfect all items remaining the room.
* Open all boxes, storage containers, etc
* Open all closets and storage rooms.
* Oil paintings, wall hangings, portraits, photos, wall art must be removed from walls, and placed on floor in center of room. Stacking them is ok.
* Disable all sprinkler systems associated with rooms or structure to be treated.
* Turn off A/C system.
* Secure loose wall paper.
* Small items like batteries, remotes etc, may be placed in a ziplock baggie, sealed up and used or stored unopened for not less than 90 days.
* All bedding should be removed from bed, so technicians can turn mattresses easily. (bedding may be left on or near the bed)
The following items must be removed from all the rooms (structure) being treated. Anything meltable or heat sensitive like candles and lipstick, makeup, wines, chocolate or fruit can be placed in the refrigerator.
Check items as they are accomplished.
* Removal of all batteries from items like remote controls, games, and other products.
* Removal of all waxed based products, like candles, make-up, lipstick etc.
* Remove all art supplies, medicines
* Remove from premises, all persons, pets, including fish, cats, birds, iguanas etc.
* Remove vinyl window treatments like mini blinds as they may be damaged due to heat.
* Remove or disable smoke detectors, heat detectors and EXIT signs (only if applicable)
* Remove any pressurized cans, like shaving cans, aerosol cans, fire extinguishers etc.
* Remove all firearms, bullets, charges, explosives, fireworks etc.
* Remove all plants.
* Remove camera film (negative style).
* Remove all electrical outlet and light switch covers.
* Items indicated below as “Remove bag or wrap” means, place in a heavy duty black plastic garbage bag and secure the opening in such a way to prevent the exchange of air, or wrap in a food or shipping type wrap to seal in bugs, and store in a temperature controlled environment for a period of not less than 90 days.
* Remove and wrap vinyl items like records, CD’s, cassettes etc.
* Wrap wooden and string musical instruments in cellophane, and remove from structure.
* Air mattresses (like or similar to Select Comfort) should be partially deflated, and unplugged from wall socket to prevent damage.
* Drain water beds completely, and remove the mattress from the bed frame, to allow heat to circulate through out the frame. --96.46.xxx.xx |
Bed bugs (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2017 3:44 PM Message:
Mike,
Just found this.
rentbedbugheaters.com
Starts at $99 per day for a small unit.
BRAD
--68.50.xx.xxx |
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