Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) May 24, 2017 4:06 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by LisaFL [FL]) May 24, 2017 4:22 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) May 24, 2017 5:04 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Scott [IN]) May 24, 2017 5:43 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Scott [IN]) May 24, 2017 5:55 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Steve [MA]) May 25, 2017 3:04 AM
Notice to Not Renew (by NE [PA]) May 25, 2017 3:28 AM
Notice to Not Renew (by Blue [IL]) May 25, 2017 7:33 AM
Notice to Not Renew (by myob [GA]) May 25, 2017 8:28 AM
Notice to Not Renew (by Vee [OH]) May 25, 2017 1:47 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) May 27, 2017 3:52 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) May 27, 2017 3:54 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) May 27, 2017 3:54 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by Jim in O C [CA]) May 27, 2017 4:12 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) May 28, 2017 11:03 AM
Notice to Not Renew (by Robin [WI]) May 28, 2017 12:52 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) May 28, 2017 1:45 PM
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) Posted on: May 24, 2017 4:06 PM Message:
I'll apologize for the length and hastiness of this in advance but any thoughts or advice would be helpful, Thanks
My two roommates and I rent a 3 bedroom condo that has is managed by a third party agent/manager for the landlord. We have lived here for several years and our lease has an auto renew clause if neither the landlord or us as tenants gives proper 60 days notice.
Three weeks before our new lease term would start we get a call from the management company asking when we would like to schedule our inspection for move out. We responded we hadn't been given any notice, this is the first we were hearing of this and we would not be able to be out in three weeks. The following day I was actually traveling and leaving the country for two weeks.
The manager said he sent a certified letter to us two weeks prior to the required 60 day notice deadline. We asked for him to provide us with receipt of that letter. A week goes by; we call a few times to follow up but are messages are left un-returned. We then hear that the manager who has been in charge of our account has been out of the office with family issues and that our final inspection has been set in two weeks and that we should vacate the premises by then. A few days later we are told that our account manager has left the company and will not be returning.
We are assigned a new manager. We ask her about the letter and she says she'll look into it. We reiterate that we have the right to a 60 day notice and its been over a week since we first heard the landlord wasn't renewing the lease and they still haven't provided us with the letter they say they sent. After a few more days of the management supposedly "looking into it" and and not calling us back, I decide to drive 45 minutes into the suburbs to there office to clarify things face to face.
I'm told that our lease ends in a week and we need to be out because the landlord wants access to his property. I said that's understandable but we have the right to a 60 day notice per our lease and notice is defined as:
A. All notices must be in writing. All notices required or permitted here under shall be in writing and signed by the party giving the notice.
B. Method of delivery of Notice. Subject to the provisions herein, all notices should be delivered either 1)in person; By an overnight delivery service; 3) by fax; 4) by registered or certified U.S. Mail , pre-paid return receipt requested
C. When Noticed is deemed received. Except where is provided , a notice shall not be considered to be given, delivered, or received until it is actually received. Notwithstanding the above, a notice sent by fax shall be deemed to be received by the party to whom it was sent as of the date and time it was transmitted provided sending the fax provides written confirmation....
She says she needs to go get her supervisor. About 10 minutes later she comes back in alone, but with a certified letter in hand. Honestly at this point, I didn't think it existed.
I run the tracking, it turns out it was delivered before the 60 day notice but nobody was home to sign for it so it says a note was left. We tenants never saw the notice. The letter sat at the post office for a month, and then was returned to property managers office where it sat for another month before I drove to there office to collect it.
Long story long, does this demonstrate adequate 60 day notice? We weren't trying to dodge anything from them; we have never missed rent or had any problems in 3 years now. We would have simply found a new place to live if we would have known the landlord did't want to renew. It seems the point of certified mail is to make sure it gets delivered. Is it not reasonable for the managing company to send an email or phone call to follow up? Even after it was returned to them that sat on it for two weeks before they accidentally told us about it, and then took two weeks and me driving up there to finally see it....
We are scrambling to make accommodations to be out of the unit while avoiding falling into an "emergency lease"
Do we have any recourse? --174.49.xx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: May 24, 2017 4:22 PM Message:
The sender has tracking ability. They can view online when it was received.
Not sure of the legality of this or who is more right or wrong. Have you explained the situation to the management? Hopefully they are willing to work with you on it. --173.170.xxx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) Posted on: May 24, 2017 5:04 PM Message:
Yeah, the management only seems to care to serve the landlord because they are hired by him. Pretty much all we have heard from them the last two weeks are get out. However, through there carelessness and ambivalence I feel like they have really put everyone in a poor positition. --172.58.x.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Scott [IN]) Posted on: May 24, 2017 5:43 PM Message:
Your 60 days started when the manager handed you the notice that was returned to her because of a failed delivery. --108.219.xx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Scott [IN]) Posted on: May 24, 2017 5:55 PM Message:
You just confirmed why it is a bad idea for Landlords to sent Certified mail to Tenants. When I used to do it, I had about a 20% successful delivery rate. 80% came back! --108.219.xx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: May 25, 2017 3:04 AM Message:
I concur with Scott, your 60 day notice to vacant started when you received the notice in the property management office. Up until that point the management company can only prove they sent the notice not that you received it as required per section C of your rental agreement. --72.93.xxx.x |
Notice to Not Renew (by NE [PA]) Posted on: May 25, 2017 3:28 AM Message:
Either way, the relationship has went south. Probably a good time to move. --70.60.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Blue [IL]) Posted on: May 25, 2017 7:33 AM Message:
Here, the post office leaves 3 pink slips with attempted deliver.
I agree your situation sucks, maybe you didn't get the notice, but obviously the management company want you guys out for whatever reason.
I don't think legally they can enforce that you were served, but regardless start packing. --75.132.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by myob [GA]) Posted on: May 25, 2017 8:28 AM Message:
Normally, in your situation, I would say wear the landlord out in court. You last paragraph kind of keeps you from doing that. When mail is sent certified and not picked up the court sees it as delivered-- just because it sat at the post office it appears attempt was made. Been through this myself.
I would call the LL and h ave a talk (honest talk) about what happened. If they'll tell you why the need to get inside that might be able to be worked out. --74.184.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: May 25, 2017 1:47 PM Message:
Whatever happens you should get an inspection now, should have had them all along every 90-120 days to avert having moveout sink the whole deposit - this often happens and everybody is scrambling around trying to get money, the payer of the deposit for next place - the manager/owner to fix the place from smoking, bumped walls, windows and various other things that occur when tenants are racing the clock to get moved out. --76.188.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 27, 2017 3:52 PM Message:
to piggy back on MYOB's comment....I suspect there may be something in your lease indicating that all notices must be sent by certified mail. Your notice was sent via certified mail, no requirement for to 'receive' it. The landlord should not be required to make a 60 day notice a 74 day notice (OR MORE) because you are out of the county for 2 weeks and not receiving mail.
--12.14.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 27, 2017 3:54 PM Message:
Because the mail was sent certified the landlord can now prove that he did what was required by the lease.
How should folks know that you are out of the county and not receiving YOUR mail. YOU have a responsibility to handle you life, even when you are traveling. --12.14.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 27, 2017 3:54 PM Message:
Because the mail was sent certified the landlord can now prove that he did what was required by the lease.
How should folks know that you are out of the county and not receiving YOUR mail. YOU have a responsibility to handle you life, even when you are traveling. --12.14.xxx.xx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: May 27, 2017 4:12 PM Message:
Here is my take. The property management company dropped the ball. You were traveling and no one did pick up the notices. I would say we will vacate 30 days from the date we physically received our notice. Schedule the walk-through two weeks prior to move out and demand the PM identify all damage that they intend to charge to you. You should have the ability to make the needed repairs if they are not normal wear and tear. Because the PM company leaves a lot to be desired be sure and protect yourself with good photos and written communication. --108.89.xxx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) Posted on: May 28, 2017 11:03 AM Message:
@Laura: Thank you for your thoughts, but just to clarify, I wasn't out of the country not handling life/mail. The delivery attempt was made during the day when nobody was home and we never discovered a notice on our door or in our mailbox. We didn't know the letter or notice of the letter existed until 3 weeks before they wanted us out when they called to ask for a exact move out date. The first two weeks of those 3 weeks is when I was traveling.
Also, I believe in my original post I shared the language included in the lease about how notices are to be handled but here it is again:
Notices.
A. All notices must be in writing.
All notices required or permitted here under shall be in writing and signed by the party giving the notice.
B. Method of delivery of Notice.
Subject to the provisions herein, all notices should be delivered either 1)in person; By an overnight delivery service; 3) by fax; 4) by registered or certified U.S. Mail , pre-paid return receipt requested
C. When Noticed is deemed received.
Except where is provided , a notice shall not be considered to be given, delivered, or received until it is actually received. Notwithstanding the above, a notice sent by fax shall be deemed to be received by the party to whom it was sent as of the date and time it was transmitted provided sending the fax provides written confirmation....
--50.232.xxx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: May 28, 2017 12:52 PM Message:
I agree with Scott (IN). I think clause C will be your saving grace. In the lease THEY provided, THEY state that notice must actually be received. Which didn't happen until the manager gave it to you. I'd write them a letter detailing when you received the letter, the page of your lease highlighting that the notice must actually be RECEIVED.
With the timeline you've described, if I were a judge I would say that the lease has auto-renewed and you have another year on the lease.
That said, they are clearly struggling with management issues.
How badly do you want to stay there? Would you be willing to take a day off from work to fight this in court? If you can point out to the management company that they legally have to let you stay there another year, they might be more willing to meet you in the middle.
--204.210.xxx.xxx |
Notice to Not Renew (by John [GA]) Posted on: May 28, 2017 1:45 PM Message:
@Robin
When I went to their office I brought the lease and read that line to the manager and she literally was speechless. She looked at me for a good 10 seconds, which felt much longer, and then replied, the landlord needs the unit back.
I said that's fine but we have the right to 60 days notice.
She responded that she would follow up with an email scheduling the move out inspection, pretty much disregarding our claim.
I said, so when you show up for the inspection and we are still living there, you'll go down and file a claim with the magistrate, they will notify us, we will have a week to answer, they will schedule a court date and in maybe 30ish days total we will have court decision to this issue that you will not work out right now?
She responded that what happens if we don't vacate is up to her supervisor(who could not be present) and the landlord.
The kicker is that we don't want to stay there any longer after; we don't want to go to court, we just wanted enough time to find new places. But they aren't willing to budge. It feels like they are bullying us and we are going to have to either lie down and take it, or stand up in court and see what the judge says.
Because there is a clause that if we hold over we are charged $150 per day, I thought it better to be out so that if we go to to court and lost there's no way for us to be liable for that fee which would add up fast. We are scrambling but I think we will be out in time.
Our recourse would be a clause in our lease that states we as tenants are entitled to one months rent as liquidated damages plus 60 days notice in the event the lease is ended early by the landlord. I have come to the same conclusion as you that we are in renewal, the lease is being terminated early by the landlord, and we are being denied our right to 60 days to move. I imagine other liquidated damages would be acceptable to claim like missing work, legal fees, etc... --50.232.xxx.xxx |
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