Poverty, Politics Profits
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Poverty, Politics Profits (by elliot [RI]) May 13, 2017 4:33 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by nhsailmaker [NH]) May 13, 2017 5:06 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) May 13, 2017 5:26 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 13, 2017 5:27 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 13, 2017 5:31 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) May 13, 2017 5:46 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 13, 2017 5:49 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by elliot [RI]) May 13, 2017 6:12 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) May 13, 2017 6:17 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by NE [PA]) May 13, 2017 6:25 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 13, 2017 6:27 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) May 13, 2017 6:56 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 13, 2017 7:16 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) May 13, 2017 8:00 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) May 13, 2017 8:34 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) May 13, 2017 8:36 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Jr [ME]) May 13, 2017 8:44 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by busy, busy, busy [WI]) May 13, 2017 9:45 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) May 13, 2017 10:33 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) May 13, 2017 7:38 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Frank [NJ]) May 13, 2017 9:04 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by GKARL [PA]) May 13, 2017 9:20 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Bill [KY]) May 14, 2017 3:31 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) May 14, 2017 6:34 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Mickie [OH]) May 14, 2017 7:27 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) May 14, 2017 12:47 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) May 14, 2017 3:57 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) May 15, 2017 6:32 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) May 15, 2017 8:45 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by S i d [MO]) May 15, 2017 9:04 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) May 15, 2017 10:58 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by CGB [MI]) May 15, 2017 12:03 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by don [PA]) May 15, 2017 7:35 PM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by Chris [CA]) May 16, 2017 5:04 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) May 16, 2017 8:00 AM
       Poverty, Politics Profits (by S i d [MO]) May 17, 2017 8:07 AM


Poverty, Politics Profits (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 4:33 AM
Message:

I was watching the Frontline program about section8 housing and tax credits. I have a lot section 8 tenants (over 50% ) and the show got me thinking about the housing segregation, government's role in housing and what it was like before the government got involved.

Its a whole lot to digest and to think about.. It probably is best reserved for those convention nights and times with LL friends. If anyone is interested in the subject on social justice while being a profitable landlord, we can chat about it during our lunch/dinner sessions.

From years being on Q&A, I can safely say that most of us agree that government's involvement is bad, incompetent to say the least. Tax credits to incentivize building affordable housing in affluent neighborhood is not a good thing, because if left to market driven, the builders won't do that without the money from the gov't. I had a class about social justice when I was attending part time MBA, so where is the line? The report hinted that if they are not given the opportunity, how do they climb out of a rut?

People suffered thousand years ago with limited means, people suffer today at different parts of the world. Is housing a rights now like health care?

Many of you who rented to low income/working class renters can attest. There are many good ones out of those many bad ones. Yes, neighborhood is fact, but not a main one. I don't know the answer,but I suspect it is in a person's gene, not the skin color. (born to be great, or be a rotten apple)

--73.218.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
Message:

I saw that same show. Very interesting.

Victorian Slum House on PBS. another show to watch. Awesome. Rooming house.. Paid rent weekly.

Victorian Slum House takes viewers back to the British slums of the 1800s, where a group of modern-day families, couples and individuals recreate life in London'’s East End as their forbearers once lived between 1860-1900.

--66.87.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
Message:

I saw that same show. Very interesting.

Victorian Slum House on PBS. another show to watch. Awesome. Rooming house.. Paid rent weekly.

Victorian Slum House takes viewers back to the British slums of the 1800s, where a group of modern-day families, couples and individuals recreate life in London'’s East End as their forbearers once lived between 1860-1900.

--66.87.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
Message:

I saw that same show. Very interesting.

Victorian Slum House on PBS. another show to watch. Awesome. Rooming house.. Paid rent weekly.

Victorian Slum House takes viewers back to the British slums of the 1800s, where a group of modern-day families, couples and individuals recreate life in London'’s East End as their forbearers once lived between 1860-1900.

--66.87.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Pattyk [MO]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 4:55 AM
Message:

I saw that same show. Very interesting.

Victorian Slum House on PBS. another show to watch. Awesome. Rooming house.. Paid rent weekly.

Victorian Slum House takes viewers back to the British slums of the 1800s, where a group of modern-day families, couples and individuals recreate life in London'’s East End as their forbearers once lived between 1860-1900.

--66.87.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by nhsailmaker [NH]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:06 AM
Message:

The Lincoln Institute of Land Policy is a think tank located in Cambridge Ma. They have done extensive studies on Mobile homes. Gov would save gazillions of $$$$ if they just gave every section 8 applicant a mobile home in a community land trust (so there is minimal lot rent) . Would not help Landlords but would kill poverty as we know it. --96.61.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:26 AM
Message:

I have a problem with the "right" to health care, the "right" to housing, etc. There are two kinds of rights: positive and negative. Negative rights are basically the right to non-interference. The right to be left alone, your rights end when they infringe on me and mine. Positive rights are the right to something positive, like health care or housing. If positive rights are legitimate then accompanying them is the "obligation" for someone to meet that right or entitlement. Absent anyone volunteering to meet that positive right the only way it gets satisfied is through coercion or force. So the government confiscates my money through taxes to meet that obligation. That, in my view, is wrong. Now I am also compelled by my faith to have a heart for the poor - and if the church is doing its job, these needs would be met and likely in a healthy way, by addressing root causes and not encouraging the behavior which led to the need. --98.213.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:27 AM
Message:

The govt should get out of the business of subsidizing housing (except mortgage interest deduction wink wink) . The housing market should be left to run its course and any necessary propping up should be done on the backend with tax credits to help people afford housing. --50.4.xxx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:31 AM
Message:

RichE, in the US you have almost complete control over how much and where you consume housing. Health care? Not so much . --50.4.xxx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:46 AM
Message:

David do you mean like the people in my town who call an ambulance to take them to the clinic to get an aspirin or the fact that I have dental work that needs to be done, but I am paying taxes instead? --98.213.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 5:49 AM
Message:

No ,I am talking about preexisting conditions and people not having control over getting sick.but I think you knew that. --50.4.xxx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by elliot [RI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 6:12 AM
Message:

Well said RichE.. Probably its not going to happen anytime soon.. Imagine the 2million+ extra homeless people in the United States.. All in a sudden, US looks like a 3rd world country.

Preexisting condition is like a prone-to-be-destructive tenant. I will take you only if you pay a premium that will cover my damage so that I can still make a profit by providing you the service.. wrong? --73.218.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by RichE [IL]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 6:17 AM
Message:

David - I understand your point (although I left out my tax dollars paying for transgender operations for incarcerated felons) but government involvement in health care is a huge part of the problem. Free market solutions will always do a better job. In fact tying your health care to your employer is a result of bungled government interference in the first place. Companies first started offering health insurance as a benefit during a period of government mandated wage control. Getting the workers that companies needed was difficult so they used medical insurance as an enticement. If there were no third party payers, and health care like soup and socks were left to individuals to buy as they like (from any provider in any location in any amount or for any coverages) then government intervention would not be needed and my tax bill would go down.

--98.213.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by NE [PA]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 6:25 AM
Message:

The solution for all of us here is to simply get richer. We can buy 2-3 more houses and cover the health care, we can buy 2-3 more houses and cover the next nonsense tax. We can buy another house and not give a crap about gas prices or bread and milk.

Poverty.... is learned. It's escapable & it's much deeper than just housing.

Parents are to blame and the educational system as a whole is to blame. Consumerism fuels it and mass media reinforces it.

I don't mind helping people, but I have a tough time continuously helping the same people.

My wife and I had our kids at swim classes this week at the high school I graduated from.

As we left yesterday, I told her how much I disliked that place when I was there and how it did and still does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prepare kids for the real world.

A job? maybe. Reality? He// NO!

So this poverty and government involvement thing is a monster that I don't know will ever be slayed.

The governments involvment just reinforces the illusion that we need as much government as we have. --50.32.xxx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 6:27 AM
Message:

I have no problem with free market insurance with the government subsidizing on the backend thru income tax credits for those who can't afford the full premiums --50.4.xxx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 6:56 AM
Message:

The truly poor don't pay income tax, so tax "credits" aren't helpful.

I do not want our government in charge of Health Care as they consistently have proved they are incapable of providing it. Look at the VA...that is fully government-provided Health Care to a T, and it's a horrible system.

BUT we cannot tell the poorest and sickest amongst us that too bad, so sorry you can't afford Health Care.

And for all of us, a diagnosis like cancer can bankrupt us regardless of insurance - with 20% co-pays on possible millions of dollars in treatment.

One of the main problems is lack of transparency - NO ONE knows what a procedure actually COSTS. It's like the health care bills we keep passing: you've got to have the procedure done to find out what it costs YOU - and it will be different for your neighbor for the exact same procedure.

In ANY other system, we would not put up with that. But with health care, we simply have no choice. --173.22.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 7:16 AM
Message:

They can receive a credit thru their tax returns --50.4.xxx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 8:00 AM
Message:

Here there is universal health care where everything is done by the government. We all believe in affordable housing where some tenants have minimum wage jobs which will not support market rent. Here two thirds owns and one third rents where one third of renters need some support to live in a rental unit which conforms to all the building and fire code standards. The provincial government here and the extreme left wing tenancy advocates believe that there should be no private sector rental housing. Reality is the provincial government has a very deficient where there is never going to be the money to build non-profit rental housing. Right now most of the major urban areas the vacancy rates are approaching one per cent or less as the provincial government legislated rent controls on new rental construction so that just killed off all new construction. The most cost effective option is to provide a shelter allowance so people can live in a decent rent unit or house then let private sector be sole provider of rental housing. It is more then about fringe groups who do not know there ramshackle from a hole in the ground. A industrial policy where people have health care not just those who have health care where they say no one else should have health care. Next a policy where people can live so the entire economy functions. Rental housing in Ontario is over 18 billion dollar industry which provides good paying local jobs, tax revenue along with in most cases a decent place for people to live. If the economy is doing then health care and housing subsidies is no longer a issue as there are funds to support it. --66.199.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 8:34 AM
Message:

Before welfare, people would live together in extended family units. Children would have more adults to guide them instead of one crazy single female parent. See where I am going here? Everyone would pitch in and raise those kids in that family house and contribute to the running of it.

Basically the welfare system ruined the black family structure by only doling out support if the father was not present. This caused the men to live elsewhere or move in with yet another woman who could support him. Of course she would then get in the family way, quit her job and go on welfare. Not supporting the entire family was the failure of the government at the time and destroyed the family structure. Now we have the results running around shooting each other in the cities. --73.33.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 8:36 AM
Message:

NH sailmaker, I think that Think Tank needs to rethink that. Read my post. Sticking multiple person poor families in a trailer park is what happens naturally anyway. Too many people crowded together with noises, smells and without extended family would just produce little Chicagos all over the country. --73.33.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Jr [ME]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 8:44 AM
Message:

A wise man said the poor will always be with us. For most poor people, their poverty is as uncurable as stage four pancreatic cancer. Certainly the trillions of dollars spent on the war on poverty have not cured poverty.

I am as generous as the next guy, but my largess is not unlimited. --166.182.xx.x




Poverty, Politics Profits (by busy, busy, busy [WI]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 9:45 AM
Message:

Chatted yesterday with the neighbor who used to live next door to one of my rentals. Two things she learned after moving out of her long-time home and renting it out to help a relative:

1. Her son who had been struggling job-wise, finally got his 'rear-in-gear' when she moved out, and made him move too. Now, he is doing very well. Having to really be the sole provider for his kids made him step up.

2. Helping someone who is 'down-on-their-luck' (her renters,) only works if those people are also willing to work to change their situation. Now my neighbor needs to do extensive clean-out and repairs, before she could move back into her home.

I have a tenant that I am quite flexible with to help her in her situation. The minute she starts to take it for granted though, I'm on it. As long as the situation mutually benefits us both, I can make adjustments, be flexible. If I'm working harder than she is to fix her situation, I tighten up. It works because it's a one on one situation, and I very actively monitor the situation. Not so sure that works on a government scale. --70.92.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 10:33 AM
Message:

1) Education and training combined would be key in breaking the poverty trail. Not a bunch of BS degrees in a soft science....we don't need graduates with another degree in sociology. STEM graduates are in demand.

2) Indeed there will be always less fortunate people then anyone of us.....and there will be folks better off than any and all of (combined).

There are no easy answers.

3) It would be nice to be able to order health care off of a menu. It doesn't exist that way.......I am not sure what the cost of anything really is. It just seems like a modern day version of Lets Make a Deal.

4) What comes to mind when you here the words......"I am from government, I am here to help" --24.239.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 7:38 PM
Message:

ALLYM - slavery is what ruined the black family structure. --108.28.xxx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 9:04 PM
Message:

....and 140 years later it still can't be repaired ?

This very night I am 1/3 the way thru the book recommended here by Ruby Payne.

I feel that the author thinks it's a job for gov't to fix. Lots of theories and excuses for human nature and foibles

--70.208.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: May 13, 2017 9:20 PM
Message:

Laura---your assessment is spot on and beyond slavery there was the FBI's co-intelpro program. Welfare, redlining, mal-investment in education and a host of other things were the mop up action in the assault on black families.

When Daniel Patrick Moynihan completed his report back in the 60's, out of wedlock births for black families was something like 20% and he predicted with some accuracy the calamitous effects that would have down the road. The often quoted out of wedlock birth rate for African-Americans today is something like 70%+. One thing that doesn't enter the debate of the out of wedlock birth rate for whites which hovers around 30%. And while this is less than half of the rate for blacks, it's a tipping point in the sense that this rate is approximately the black out of wedlock birth rate back in the 60's when Moynihan expressed his concerns. Of course, in absolute numbers, the number of white out of wedlock births far exceeds all other groups simply to due to the higher percentage they represent of the US population and if trends persist, it's not unreasonable to expect the rate to rise significantly over time with disastrous effects on society.

What are the implications of this white out of wedlock birth rate on poverty, education, healthcare, crime and etc.? Are those implications dissimilar from the calamity that has befallen African American families?

Sometimes the familiar left/right debate analysis leaves much to be desired in that much of what really happening is overlooked or simply ignored. Because of that policies are developed that have nothing to do with the issues at hand mainly because they can't be debated fully.

Who is better to control healthcare? The government or a private insurer with a pecuniary interest in your well being or lack thereof? Are you more comfortable with an insurance company deciding what procedure the doctor should use. Why can't the doctor and the patient decide? The insurance companies provide absolutely no value add and as a CPA, I see both sides; the doctors are getting paid less while the insured is paying more for less. That only adds up to more profit for the insurance company. I have absolutely no dedication or allegiance to private insurance companies. Our nation has a great history of mutual or publicly owned entities. Historically, mutual insurance companies, credit unions, public utilities and the like came about as a way to form mutual associations to help people. The idea was that anything that benefits the broad public should be controlled by it rather than paying a premium for private profit. Health insurance should be the same way. If there's a concern about the government not working, it's not working because that's what's been set up and deliberately so.

Finally, consider this question: Why does Canada and Europe have public healthcare--how can they afford that? I've always argued that because they fall under our defense umbrella, they don't have to devote as much of their budget to military spending, thus they can take their tax dollars and devote them for public good. That effectively means that the US taxpayer is subsidizing healthcare in Canada and Europe while we either go without or struggle to pay for it. If the American people understood that, they'd be upset. If you ask the average person which do you prefer; a tomahawk missile or good healthcare? What do you think they'd choose? The choice is actually that stark, because that's the reality but one not readily acknowledged or discussed.

Sorry to rant. I'm done. --207.172.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Bill [KY]) Posted on: May 14, 2017 3:31 AM
Message:

You cannot solve poverty. Giving a poor person a mobile home does not solve a housing crisis. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at the problem, there will always be rich & poor. Use your brains people. A fool and his money will soon part. --24.26.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: May 14, 2017 6:34 AM
Message:

We just watched the show and what we got out of it was, once again, the government's complete incompetence at running "social good" programs, and the utter failure, time after time, of trying to social engineer poverty out of existence.

It's not going to happen, no matter how much money we throw at it.

The fact that the government has spent billions of our money, with virtually no oversight of who is actually benefiting...argh.

I feel for the unwitting victims of these programs: the very people they were supposed to help... --173.22.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Mickie [OH]) Posted on: May 14, 2017 7:27 AM
Message:

I keep hearing about "social justice warriors" and must confess I'm not to impressed with them. I think they simply want to have a "cause" that's socially acceptable so they can feel self justified when insisting tax payers foot the bill. I don't think they really care and a good portion of the "social justice warriors" are just regurgitating what they've learned in school and college. I have yet to hear of any of them that have the stones to personally do something. I wonder if each of the little social justice warriors committed to 1 year of taking in a homeless person(s) just how many would be that passionate at the end of 1 year. Don't want to get their hands dirty fine if they want to donate to section 8 or any other charity to help the poor fine. They need to keep their hands out of other people's pockets (via forced social taxes) and fund their own social programs. --174.232.x.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: May 14, 2017 12:47 PM
Message:

Laura, slavery was many generations ago. There was a black family structure after slavery and up until the Democrats started messing with welfare excluding the man of the house. --73.33.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 14, 2017 3:57 PM
Message:

ALLY and Frank....when slavery ended MANY other impediments remained. The playing field was far from level at the end of slavery & today. So yes while slavery was 100+ years ago the impact and aftermath continues today. --108.28.xxx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 6:32 AM
Message:

Laura of course you are right!

But it's true the welfare programs of the 60's and 70's did nothing to help the wide-spread matriarchal culture of the black American family. Nor does the modern phenomenon of the hip-hop culture, which seems to idealize having a child with many different women. I don't remember this as being such a widespread issue when I was younger? In fact I know it wasn't!

One of the women interviewed on the program who was living in her van at times had SEVEN children. Seven. How does one even HAVE seven children? Does she not see a correlation between having seven children and not being able to afford housing? Apparently not, and the interviewer made no mention of that fact either.

There was also no mention of the father(s) contributing assistance. Only that the government was failing her by failing to provide her with suitable housing.

Very frustrating. --173.22.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 8:45 AM
Message:

WMH...I agree. There are LOTS of factors at play in this complicated issue! --108.28.xxx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 9:04 AM
Message:

History is full of groups that were marginalized, persecuted, "disadvantaged" (I really want to meet one of those groups that was advantaged from the start!), etc. I can think of several ethnic groups over the centuries who endured hardship, persecution, murder, genocide, and racism yet emerged as power-houses of academic, financial, and solid family structures. Jews, Japanese, and Irish to name a few. What is ironic is many of these groups still face a lot of prejudice and ignorance today: yet they thrive!

I do not blame any one group for it's lack of success.

From what I have learned via years of study is there comes a point where a person and/or a culture decides to rise up in spite of the challenges facing them and they succeed. Success is not a lack of conditions that might cause failure: it is overcoming in spite of those conditions.

I think at some point folks just decide to take charge of their lives and from then on life gets better. Slowly. Maybe it takes several generations. But to quote Morgan Freeman's character "Red" in Shawshank Redemption: "Get busy living or get busy dying."

Bottom line: History judges kindest those who win, not those who whine. The ones who expect others to take care of them will always be at the mercy of those from whom they want resources. --173.19.xx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 10:58 AM
Message:

"The overwhelming majority of racists are men who have earned no sense of personal identity, who can claim no individual achievement or distinction, and who seek the illusion of a “tribal self-esteem” by alleging the inferiority of some other tribe.”

Sums up a lot of T****p supporters. --173.22.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 12:03 PM
Message:

Most people in poverty make poor decisions. The poverty rate of a family of a mother and father who have a high school education and who work with a child is low regardless of skin color. The take home message is easy. Get an education, get a job and get married before having children and you will likely not be living innpoverty. I have always said, you can be smart and be successful, you can be hard working and be successful but you can't be dumb and lazy and be successful. Education is the easiest way to climb into the middle class. --50.77.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by don [PA]) Posted on: May 15, 2017 7:35 PM
Message:

David, even with health care Riche's point is valid. A right is something that someone is entitled to have, without necessarily paying anything. Health care is a product that people have to study and labor to provide. How can I have a right to demand the labor of other people without compensating them for it? Don't say that the gov't will pay, because that does not remove the issue---you are now confiscating the money/labor of other people to provide the care. Everyone has the same rights, so what would happen if everyone refused to work and simply said "I have a right to food, a right to housing, and a right to health care" Who would provide the material goods that these rights require?

FDR was the first US leader to start the idea of rights and freedoms being related to having material things, rather than true freedoms such as practicing your religion, freedom of speech, right to confront accusers, etc. --73.141.xxx.xxx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by Chris [CA]) Posted on: May 16, 2017 5:04 AM
Message:

I'm seconding NH_Sailmaker. S8 can't remain affordable, JMHO. It's all wrong, as are its high standards. No peeling paint - but the working tenants without it, they have to put up with all these things?!?

More and more red tape. More inspections. and guess what, someone has to pay the price! Who might that be? When will taxpayers take control and end these silly bureaucratic programs?!?

On a low level, there could be real help for the homeless etc. and be it in form of a good tent + bivouac sack etc. It all begins with mental creativity and flexibility. --46.5.xx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 16, 2017 8:00 AM
Message:

don, Sorry but I had my paycheck confiscated to pay for the misadvantures in iraq. Many many many people thought that was a good idea to demand of me!

You miss the point, people can easily be sick thru no fault of their own. If they work 40, 60 or 80 hours a week but still can't afford the premiums, is that their fault? --12.156.xxx.xx




Poverty, Politics Profits (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: May 17, 2017 8:07 AM
Message:

David has an interesting point on healthcare that needs to be addressed: at what point do we as a society say, "Tough s#1t...sorry you're sick...go die." There isn't one politician alive today who will say that, and the reason he won't say it is because the majority of society doesn't want him to say it. So by default, we've chosen to have at least a partially socialized system of medicine.

Right now anyone can go to an ER and cannot be turned away for care. We've made it illegal to reject someone 100% of the time. However, as we all know, using the ER as a sole source of healthcare can be frustrating, exorbitantly expensive even compared to regular expensive medicine, and is more of slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound vs. healing it.

We've also outlawed being without insurance and attempted to band-aid over that by providing subsidies to buy healthcare. Almost like making it illegal to not go to the grocery store, then making food stamp mandatory. Wait, we already did that...(wink) You are not permitted legally to starve...we will penalize you if you do not comply.

I do NOT believe socialized medicine is the answer. However, our current system is a hybrid of socialism and capitalism and probably a few other -isms. We are likely too far down the road to get it to go totally back to a commodity that one simply pays for. Can you imagine all the people currently receiving Govt benefits to say, "Yeah, you're right, I should pay for that all by myself." Nuh uh, won't happen voluntarily. So we'll continue to limp along for awhile...

What will likely happen somewhere down the road is revenues will be exceeded by expenses to the point where things like GDP, tier 3 money, etc. become meaningless. I figure maybe 20 or so years...about the time the Boomers have all retired and/or are too broken to continue working thru retirement and we'll have a shake out. It could by hyperinflation as Govt prints more money to cover bills we cannot pay, making the value of debt-instruments and/or paper assets sink rapidly. It could come via massive deflation (less likely) as money supply is cut and the nominal cost of debts skyrocket, burying borrowers.

David, I'm sorry your money got confiscated for the boondoggle that was Iraq. Mine did too. So did every other American's money. You are not along with a private grievance. To say, "because someone did X bad idea to me means that we should do Y bad idea to them" is at best playground revenge tactics. Either forcing people to pay for healthcare is good or it's not good based solely on its own merits regardless of other screw ups. We need to debate the matter at hand rather than shifting to unrelated topics. Otherwise, we'll never agree on ANYthing because no one will agree on EVERYthing. --173.19.xx.xxx





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