Hello all - I am in a difficult situation, my tenant of several years recently attempted suicide. Now I'm in a situation where she is behind on her rent by almost 4 months. Financially, I can't allow her to live there rent free, or I'll risk getting into financial trouble myself. But I also feel terrible about giving her an ultimatum, and asking her to leave if she can't pay. How do you kick a person out who just tried to kill herself?! I know I could start legal actions against her based on how much rent she owes, but that seems really cold-hearted to me, yet I also can not risk my family's financial stability to support her indefinitely.

Kathy, it is not cold-hearted and mean to expect to be paid. Yes, she is STEALING rent from you right now.

You have not caused any of the problems that have led her to where she is today. Who knows what has? A deadbeat boyfriend, a drug/alcohol addiction, laziness, etc?

Does she have any family / emergency contacts from when she applied? I'd ask on of them to help her get caught up and moved out in the next week. Otherwise, you're just prolonging the inevitable.

Btw, have you talked to her cold-hearted, mean cell phone company or internet provider? They expect to be paid too and will shut off her service if she stops paying them. The only reason they're getting paid and you are not is that, to date, you've allowed her not to pay you.

Kathy, It is never easy to "kick" someone out of their home, however remember:

-you are running a business, not a charity

-if they were paying rent, you would not be issuing a POQ

-if something needs to be fixed, they would expect you to uphold your obligations

-it is your investment and you need to protect it

If it makes you feel better, offer information about local organizations that might help or make a donation individually to those organizations.

I also like to look at it another way... letting someone get behind by 4 months does not help them. It is easier to find a local organization to help when you are needing that month's rent, not needing 4 months of rent.

This is where you find out if you are landlord material. No pay no stay. You can not provide free housing to everyone who may attempt suicide. There are certain problems (of others ) that you CAN NOT own, mental instability and the outcome can not be your responsibility.

Kathy, I can tell you have a good heart, but I'm hearing the language of someone who is about to get burned...badly!

The fact is, most tenants who get ONE month behind never catch up. This tenant is FOUR months behind. If she makes extra monthly payments equal to 25% of one month's rent, it will take her 16 months to get caught up. And ANY slip during that time means she falls further behind.

Be very careful. I know you think you own this problem, but you don't...you CAN'T. The longer this goes on, the worse it will be.

Kathy, you in tough spot but don't be the second victim in this scenario, and

lose your property.

Her problems are a lot bigger than just the rent she owes you.

I would defiantly serve the pay or vacate notice. It's only business nothing personal and then proceed with the eviction, payments will not help her now.

She is to far past due.

Think logically here not emotionally.

Contact her family members or a mental health organization that can help her.

How do you know she attempted suicide? Did she tell you? People attempt and threaten suicide as a sick way to manipulate people. Sounds like she's manipulating you.

I'm kinda w/ Ken[NY]. You seem to be looking for a way to help her out, yet you say that YOU are hurting.

No one is gonna help you....but you.

If she cannot pay the one month she certainly cannot catch up on 4 moths rent.

I agree with Vee (OH), you have already helped

this person for 4 months giving them a break. Have

you had a talk with this person ? Offer her names

and numbers of places that may help her but let her

know you can no longer carry her for free.

Your charity has run out. Time to take care of Kathy now.

I hate to be callous. But you are going to have to kick her out. Try to be a bit more gentle about it than I would. I'd nail the "pay or quit" to the door with a bowie knife or leave a rope with a noose already tied on the doorstep. ;-)

Kathy, I can tell you are a kind person. Having been down this exact road before I will tell you straight: You are being played.

She found your landlord sympathy button and keeps pushing it. She knows she has not paid and is simply milking you because she has trained you to accept her excuses.

Unless you are a trained counselor there is not much you can do to help her other than prayer, encourage her to seek help, and maybe a pamphlet/referral. It is not your job to fix her.

Not to make light of the suicide issue, do you know it for a fact? Proof? Rumor? Cry for attention? It is HER problem not yours. We cannot change people.

Put some facts in place: you have not evicted her but she attempted suicide. So eviction is not the reason for her emotional state.

Your problem started the day you did not pursue the rent. If you had stayed on top of the rent she would either be paid up or been gone when this attempt took place.

Letting her get deeper in debt just makes thing worse for her and for you. You have given her four months of "help" and it will be a real challenge for you to recoup any of your lost rent.

"Help" her by ending this bad lease situation. People do not make life changes, like moving out of the house they cannot afford, until someone puts pressure on them.

Now another real life angle to consider: if she kills herslef it might be in your rental. You then have a death scene cleanup which can be absolutley horrible and a dark cloud over your property.

I'd talk to her today about leaving, have her sign my paperwork agreeing what she owes, and the weekend to vacate. If no response or non-compliance, file immediately.

You are fortunate to live in an area where you CAN evict her under these conditions. In my area it would probably be difficult to do so as it can now be argued she has a mental condition and as the landlord you must accomodate the tenant to the point of your personal financial hardship, that point being decided by the human tights tribunal.

I would seek agencies that can help her, give her the contact information and begin a slow eviction.

As mentioned in this thread, now that you have allowed her to fall so far behind, it might now be expected you show the same lienency to all tenants who dont pay their rent. In my area it would now be a LEGAL requirement.

And simply from a pratical perspective, how long do you expect this to continue, 6 months, a year 2 years?

At somepoint you will have to take action.....the longer you wait it more difficult it will be for you and your family. What happens if another crisis comes up while you are still trying to deal with this one?

another LL way to involved with tenants lives. 4 months try 6 or 7 because even if you start now it's going to take at least that long.

Got a kick out of one post- it's hard to kick them out of their home-- HELLO it's not their home it's yours!!!!!

another LL way to involved with tenants lives. 4 months try 6 or 7 because even if you start now it's going to take at least that long.

Got a kick out of one post- it's hard to kick them out of their home-- HELLO it's not their home it's yours!!!!!

Hi Kathy - I can totally relate with the conflicted feelings. This makes you compassionate and that is something you should not want to get rid of.

Sometimes great tenants have awful things happen. A major landlord gave me some great advise. When you'd like to keep the tenant, tell them "I'm going through the eviction process. I will get the judgment plus court fees, but I'm willing to work out an agreement - begin paying X/month and I will not execute the judgment. Welsh, and you give me no choice." In his experience with dozens of cases with good tenants, they paid the agreement knowing that they're out if they don't.

a month might be considered charitable...four is not reasonable by ANY standard. she has abused your kind nature and needs to pay or move.

these situations are a good window into her life as a whole. if her family and friends, those that know her best, are not stepping up then what does it day about her that she's burned everyone else and now it's your turn.

Subject:Tenant Attemted Suicide.

Start eviction. Prepare a Settlement agreement offering 50% of what the eviction process costs you as a gift for her to move out early.

It could be much much worst. So do not wait any longer. Best of luck. hugo

I've been in your shoes and I am in a similar agreement arrangement with a tenant right now.

Cheapest for me has been keeping communication open.

From

I gave a Tenant a break when Her son committed suicide, that she could pay me late and catch up later. She took it that she did not have to pay her rent and proceeded to have others move in to the unit with her.

She forgot how nice I was to her about this, and told me she thought she did not have to pay me and had no intentions to.

I had to seek a court remedy which she fought meanwhile destroyed the apt and building.

On my first eviction, the single mom had 3 children. She ignored the 5 day pay or quit notice, did not go to court for her appearance. I did get the eviction but she still didn't move out. The sheriff issued her a move out date. I went there with my workers and their trucks and she and her children were still sleeping. We started moving some items out and her children were crying and screaming "don't take my toys or my dolls. I went outside crying and the sheriff cam out and put his arm around me and said "you didn't cause this, She did this to her children. I have been in this business for 32 yrs and I will never forget that message.

It's nice to see such a kind-hearted person who cares about others. I too, got caught up in my tenant's lives and tried to make things good for them to the extent of me agonizing over why I am doing that and losing money in the process. I let them move in a relative (immigrant from another country after 27 years of legal wrangling). He lived there for free for 2 months before I figured out he wasn't planning to go anywhere else. It took me by surprise and it ended up very badly with lots of arguing and the current tenant lady sobbing uncontrollably as I told her that 'nobody lives for free'. It was very hard since they have been my tenants for 19 years! They made me feel I was a terrible person and it was all my fault if their family went broke. I felt awful.

My good friend finally reminded me (actually several) that I am the Landlord, it's a business, I can't allow myself to be that kind when it hurts me.

Kathy, You've probably read more than you wanted to hear already. But one point has not been mentioned yat. A failed suicide will OFDTEN make a 2nd attempt.

If she is successful in your property, it will bring the police, ypur property will be cordned off and you ill not be allowed to enter till the investigation is complete. All the neighbors in the neighborhood will be questioned by police and they will not be happy about it. Somehow all this questioning will end up being your fault.

How do I know this? It happened to me. The 14 year old son of my tenant hanged himself on my backyard tree. It was horrible! I wasn't allowed to take control of the property. The family moved to a relative's house who was not on the reference app and the police would not give me any contact info. I never found her. Not to mention--your place will be empty for several months, you will have to continue paying the heat and water on during the winter to save the pipes.

I'd like to clarify the "It's a business" phrase.

It's not a phrase to escape responsibility.

It's a way to prioritize and operate with some rules. Not everything or everyone can be the top priority.

The first responsibility of ANY business is to serve people. When done properly and within guidelines, it can make a profit so it can survive to serve the next person.

It must have rules and limits to protect itself from human nature - those who try to take advantage of it (steal, cheat, abuse privileges). Example: we lock our doors at night. Not to shut out people in need but to protect my family from those who will harm it.

Most LLs are GIVERS and it's tough to finally learn that the world is full of TAKERS who will go to great lengths to TAKE and TAKE and TAKE from the GIVERS.

We see this everyday with folks who lie on their applications. Without some rules in place we would be giving homes to people without no ability to pay the rent. So we apply some "business principles" to orderly screen applicants to avoid future trouble.

Simple LL example: by collecting rent we can continue to provide quality housing to people and bring income to support our family. When residents don't pay rent, usually because the LL let them slide, the guidelines have been ignored and the ability to continue is put in jeopardy, or to continue the LL takes money away from his/her family.

I HIGHLY recommend every LL spend a little time with a local aide agency. They MUST have rules and hold the clients accountable. If not, they will be run over with beggars, cheaters, and takers, then not be able to assist the truly needy.

My church is very generous when people have a need, BUT the elders want some accountability from the people who receive the aide. Some questions, a copy of the bill or quote for the repair, maybe see who in the church might help them before they just hand out cash...They can often solve the client's problem in a quicker or better manner because they are TRAINED and have MULTIPLE resources available.

Our local homeless shelter has TONS of rules and rule breakers are kicked out. Many people are homeless because they refuse to follow the rules which keep the shelter alive and safe. Without rules people devolve into chaos.

Wifey and I operate under the principle that these properties belong to God and we are the caretakers at this time. The Bible is clear that we are to be good stewards of God's resources. When it makes money we are then able to support ministries who are trained to help people and make the most of those monetary resources we donated.

Out "ministry" is to treat people with respect and compassion, responding to the repair needs, keeping their home in top condition, WHILE being a good steward.

If you want to financially support someone with free rent, do it AFTER you have provided fro your family and the needs of the property, such as taxes, ins, and maint.

The Bible is clear when it says the man who does not pay his bills is worse than a [dog]...and his bed will be snatched from him like a thief in the night. A sounds like eviction to me!

It's not evil to operate in a businesslike fashion. The Bible tells us to be organized and orderly.

The term "It's a business" means we operate with some rules in order to help people with housing and be able to continue to help people.

BRAD

Livethedream---

This is 100% wrong what you posted and very offensive in many ways. Another LL -- way to involved. Put the notice leave out the theater.

Jeffery I wish you would pull that post because mental illness is nothing to joke about. You (you being MRLL web site) would not condone this against any other group so why allow it for mentally ill?

I move towards getting rid of this person based solely on the fact that they tried killing themselves. Whether or not landlords realize this, the screening process never really stops.

Four months behind on her rent and you're being financially affected? Take action now.

My cardinal rule of landlording is never allow their problems to become your problems.

I'm late to the party.

Pay an attorney to do all the evicting. Let her/him be the bad guy in court. Under the gun your tenant will be able to get help from the local govt.

Ho Hum!!! I have practiced plenty of Psychiatry in my life, first as a Family Physician specializing in depression, and then as a Hospitalist taking care of my own admits AND the ones nobody else wants and dumps on me, the overdoses. Since the heavy duty narcotics came on the market, drug overdoses are an everyday occurrence for me and so are idiots trying to kick me in the head when they come to or take the wrong substance like K2 or bath salts.

Facts:

1) Many suicide attempts are simply the way a loser has learned to manipulate others. Save your compassion for true tragedies, there are too many of those.

2) Many suicide attempts are due to trying to get high and

misjudging the dose. Go figure. What do they do when they wake up? They ask for more drugs. I tell them if they can stay awake for 10 minutes, I MIGHT consider it. Actually, I never do. I just like to play with them.

3) Do not try to find help for her or you will learn what "No good deed goes unpunished means." Leave mental health for the pros.

4) You have been nice and it is costing you money. Continuing to be nice will cost you more.

Much of her risk for actually committing suicide depends on their plan:

1)Shoot yourself in the head. This can be highly effective. Especially if you fill the mouth full of water and shoot into the mouth. Most cops and doctors know this and have highly succsessful rates of completed suicides.

2)Hanging also works.

3)Cutting wrists, only if you know the anatomy well enough to really slice an artery.

Narcotic or drug overdose...eventually they get it right after they have taken their friends and family through hell.

"You need to decide if you're a psychologist or a landlord !"

This is such a sad situation. I just had to add one more comment from personal experience. You probably will never see that lost 4 months of rent unless a major miracle happens.

When I had a really bad tenant, (depressed, angry, self destructive), I took the advice of a very smart friend. He told me to PAY her to leave. Yes, pay HER. She was already on notice to go and on the last of the 30 days, had made NO efforts to pack or go.

So I wrote her an agreement, (which we both had to sign), took it to her and explained that IF she got out now, within the next 5 days, I wouldn't sue her for the current damages, and I would let her leave with the last month's rent unpaid. She had to agree not to sue me for any reason.

To my surprise, this gal, who was so difficult to deal with, signed, called up 6 friends, got 2 trucks and was out of the place before midnight! Amazing. I got my house back, I didn't care how it looked (I already knew the damages) and I was rid of a HUGE problem tenant who probably would have caused even more damages, stress and grief.

It was so much better to just have the problem gone, than to worry about recouping money or how she might feel about me, or where she would go, etc.

It was a clean start for me and was well worth the losses in money and damages.

Having been placed in the exact position that you face now, I want you to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you. It is your job to run your business and not to run your tenants life.

Unfortunately my tenant did ultimately checked himself out. I often ponder if I did what was best or if somehow I could have changed things.