I wanted to get the Boards take of a friend’s situation. A friend of mine (really) had roof damage from a storm. Her insurance company recommended a company to do the roof repairs. She hired the company to do the repairs. Three guys showed up to do the work, she also had them power wash the roof.

After power washing the roof, one of the guys was coming down the ladder, the ladder fell and he hit the driveway & died latter that day. Another guy jumped down off the roof when the accident happened and broke his ankle.

911 was called after the guy fell off the ladder. The 3rd guy asked my friend to notify his company, which was different than the company she hired. Lets say she hired company AAA, this worker said to call his company BBB. I assume company AAA subcontracted the job to company BBB.

Company AAA is licensed, i looked them up on the state licensing board. I do not know anything about company BBB.

Do you think my friend should be worried, aside from the obvious trauma of the situation?

Brutal. I had a guy almost die on me about 2 months ago. I feel their pain.

The insurance company has already called and asked her what happened. Shre talked about the roof repair, did NOT specifically mention the power washing.

The concern is the insurance company was paying for the roof damage. My friend added on the power washing job when the guys showed up. She ONLY contacted the licensed company recommended by the insurance company.

As I said this is a friend(really) , so i don't know everything. But having been over her house , i think it is a shingle roof.

I am a landlord and contractor. On a job to install windows the property's gardener showed up and the owner wanted him to wash down the backyard and driveway. The owner pays about $25 a week for the gardener to show up and part of his job is to clean and wash down the yard.

I told both of them (the owner and gardener) not to water anywhere on the property! If my workers get their shoes wet, then they can slip and fall off the ladders and get injured.

As I went to get some supplies off my truck, the owner insisted the gardener do his chores or get docked for not watering down the concrete driveway/yard.

I told my guys to drop everything and get down from the ladders. I packed up everything, leaving my clients un-installed windows.

I cancelled my contract and walked off the job.

The owner and his wife couldn't understand why I made such a big deal about a wet surface.

His lawyer, insurance company, license board and others thought I was crazy.

THAT'S UNTIL HE GOT A REPLACEMENT CONTRACTOR TO INSTALL HIS WINDOWS THE FOLLOWING WEEK. As you can guess, on guy fell off the "Roof" securing a ladder because his gardener was watering again. The workers wet shoes on the roof didn't help him much. He didn't die but falling from a second story roof onto a dirt planter box caused him to be hospitalized for over three months.

After this no one thought I was crazy after this injury.

So to answer your question, I have over 20 ladders with various standoffs, extra stabilizers, different feet, hooks, clamps and ropes to secure the ladder anytime someone is going over 8 feet high.

Laura,

I hoep yoru friend is in the clear. I hope she has a written contract with the one she hired.

Yes, she shoudl contact HER lawyer for a chat.

Tell her to keep her mouth SHUT!!! EVERYTHING she says CAN and WILL be used against her.

Lawyers drool for cases like this (think bus ads and late night TV ads). They will sue EVERYONE connected, including your friend.

In any accident like this, OSHA is notified & they investigate to determine responsibility.

If I understand this correctly,

1. your "friend" had some sort of storm damage to her roof

2. she contacted her insurance agent / company

3. her insurance company suggested a certain contractor to do the repairs

4. 3 guys who she presumed where from the company that was recommended by the insurance company showed up to do the work

5. these 3 guys made the repairs

6. your "friend" asked them to power wash the roof

7. after the power washing was done, one of the workers fell off the ladder when the ladder slipped

8. another worker broke his ankle when he attempted to get off the roof by jumping to the ground

9. when the 3rd guy asked your "friend" to call his company, she realized that these 3 apparently didn't even work for the company she hired upon her insurance company's recommendation

IMO this is going to end up in court & your friend definitely has some exposure. Even though she hired a legitimate company to do the original work, it appears as though she then hired the 3 workers to do some additional work. Unless this additional work was actually authorized by the original company, a strong case could be made that she hired these workers herself.

OK, as if the situation were not complicated enough. There is one more twist which I wasn't sure i wanted to bring up. I think legally this does not matter, but practically will it have an impact?

The 3 guys who showed up, 2 did not speak english and 1 spoke broken english. This is commonly the work force in this area. I assume ( I DO NOT KNOW) that these guys were undocumented. Do you think this has an impact?

please tell me if I'm wrong in this thought?

If you hire someone to work and they get injured and can't work-- who ever hired them is responsible for their pay.

First of all, I'm glad it's your friend and not you Laura!!

Her insurance knows, they called her and asked her what happened. i do not know who notified them. I am beginning to feel really sick for her. I know she has insurance, i assume ultimately folks will have to settle with an insurance company????

Just spoke to a local RE investor VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE.

Gave me a good lawyer contact for my friend, second said.....my friend is NOT a RE investor so the defense of 'plausible deniability ' is attractive.

The reasoning is ....is it reasonable giving the situation and 'who' my friend is (NOT an INVESTOR) for her to assume that the guys were employed by the licensed/insured company that she hired.

Plausable Deniability Law & Legal Definition

Plausable deniability refers to circumstances where a denial of responsibilty or knowledge of wrongdoing can not be proved as true or untrue due to a lack of evidence proving the allegation. This term is often used in reference to situations where high ranking officials deny responsibilty for or knowledge of wrongdoing by lower ranking officials. In those situations officials can "plausibly deny" an allegation even though it may be true.

It also refers to any act that leaves little or no evidence of wrongdoing or abuse.

I see a major problem. The roof repair contract was with AAA Company, which was licensed and presumably bonded and fully insured including Workers Comp.

AAA's subcontracting the job out should not be Laura's friend's problem. Laura's friend had a contract with a licensed company, not with the BBB company.

At least, that was the situation until Laura's friend asked the three workers employed by BBB to power-wash the roof. Now, Laura's friend has an oral contract with BBB, which might not be insured/licensed/bonded. Or maybe Laura's friend now has an oral contract with Moe, Larry and Curly, who are almost certainly not licensed, insured or bonded and who might be illegal aliens.

Laura's friend had better lawyer up immediately!!! Not with the defense attorney appointed by Laura's homeowner's insurance, but with one she hires personally to consult with over this entire unhappy situation.

Dr. Laura, I do not who used the term "plausible deniability" but that is political lying, not a legal defense.

Your friend had a contract with AAA Roofing, not deniable.

Your friend asked Moe, Curly and Larry to power wash -- maybe she could deny this, but she is probably already on record admitting this. Is there any paperwork about this extra work? Even though Curly is dead, Moe and Larry can testify that your friend told them to power wash. Was she paying extra for the power wash? How, cash or check? Did she already pay, before Curly had a great fall?

Curly fell while climbing to or from her roof -- not deniable.

Exactly which parts of this scenario might be deniable, plausibly?

Well the power washing is out in the open. The police took pictures & she took pictures that clearly show the power wash equipment. Also one of the workers mentioned the power washing to the police.

She also paid for the power washing with a separate check. There were 3 checks. A check for the repairs from the insurance company, less her deductible. Her check which covered the deductible. And a separate check for the power washing. When the guys showed up they asked her if she wanted power washing.

DH and I are discussing this whole thing. This is why I take tranks on a regular basis.

Some jobs are not great.

Most jobs cannot lose your entire nest egg.

LLing can.

Only knowing the little here. 1. This is her residence? She hired a firm recommended by the ins. She probably WILL get sued, the homeowners ins will pay to the limit of the policy. Any extra is on her. IF the guy was under WC that ins should be primary.

But they will sue for the max of any insurance possible, plus some.

A settlement with next of kin to the ins limit is probably a best case.

The broken ankle guy jumped, he will get med bills and some cash for a new car.

PI lawyers will be all over this.

My construction co in Florida went under because of an accident. Our employees were flying in roof trusses, one hit the existing trusses which because they were only tacked in place all fell, knocking two guys off the roof. One broke his pelvis and back, the other just got banged up.

Pelvis guy got 1.2 million. About 300k to the lawyer, 300k medical and the rest was party money.

Our workers comp for an 18 man crew went from about $9,000 a year to $17,000 a month! We closed up and my two partners and our old laborer who'd worked for one partner for twenty years went back to building one house at a time.

PS - roofs are INSANELY SLIPPERY.

I nearly went off a three or four story condo once in FL. Just a little early am dew and some sawdust on a plywood sub roof. Luckily I was standing at the peak. One second I was going over the plans, the next I was scratching at the ridge to not slide off and over the side.

After that everyone roped up and we got some edge strips to stop falls.

My current apts have a semi glossy tile, you literally have to go barefoot or run ropes over the ridge. It is just to slick for shoes. We crawl and set up ladders with a 2x10 stop board in some areas.

Some things that might help -

Did the guys bring their own ladder or did your friend supply one? If they brought their own good for your friend.

Some things that might help -

Did the guys bring their own ladder or did your friend supply one? If they brought their own good for your friend.

A roofer just died up the road from me last week, its a dangerous job.

I hope the two checks that your friend wrote were payable to AAA, and not to BBB or to the Three Stooges.

The ladder point is important.

NEVER EVER supply a ladder to anyone. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. You take liability for said ladder if you do.

Accidentally pushed button

Did your friend place the ladder or instruct guy where or how to place ladder? Good for friend if guy placed ladder.

Did your friend instruct guy how to use ladder?

Did your friend have any known damage to the house that would cause ladder to fall?

Find out if anyone pulled a permit to do these repairs. In MA in order to pull a permit you must provide proof of liability & WC insurance. The only 2 exceptions are if a home owner pulls their own permit or the contractor signs an affidavit stating they have no employees. I would presume that this applies to other states as well.

Were the workers wearing harnesses with ropes attached to a secure place near the ridge?

Were the workers trained to actually work on a pitched roof?

I'm sure a very strong case could be made that both of the companies were liable for not properly training, equipping or supervising their workers. However at the end of the day some lawyers are going to make some big money, the dead & the injured worker & their families will not receive much real benefit and your friend is going to be screwed over.

if they were insured for the roof work they were insured for the extra work. the licensed company had their men and tools on the job.

she should also cease talking pronto and get a lawyer to speak for her. she cannot help herself and can easily make a bad situation worse.