That sounds like normal wear and tear.

I tell tenants not to try to fill or repair nail holes as they normally don't do it correctly anyway. I'd rather do it properly than have to fix their work.

They should make an attempt to wipe off marks/fingerprints.

I use semigloss paint on all interior walls. Same color in each house makes touch up pretty easy. I've had no problems using Behr interior semi gloss/Navajo white in everything blending beautifully. I've had several houses professionally painted one time and now five, six, seven years and several tenants later I can make them look freshly painted in no time just by touching up. Besides the semi gloss makes a lot of marks easy to just wipe off.

I struggle with this as well. I usually go by how they treated the rest of my unit. Did they also do a number on my floors, fail to clean, leave appliances a mess, tear up the yard, etc. They don't just mistreat one item.

Just went to wainscoting in one unit because of holes repeatedly in that room. In another unit, we went to two tone paint. Usually the problems are from the chest down, so we painted the bottom half one color and the top half a coordinating color. It looks decent and has worked so far.

If you don't allow picture hanger holes in your prop, charge to fill and paint over.

Paint is a landlords best friend. If you're hiring out the paint every 12 months to the tune of $1,000, you're nuts.

I know it's a nice idea to hire everything out, but this is something you can have a handyman or helper do for peanuts/hr.

Or do it yourself.

I like to hire things out. I got a bid on a small apartment last year. 2 10x11 bedrooms and a 10 x 20 living room. The guy wanted $600, that didn't include ceilings or trim.

He didn't get the job. I took my cousin over to the apartment and paid him $10 an hour and we did it in 3 hours.

Buy GOOD paint, I suggest Behr Paint and primer in one, tan or gray or some neutral eggshell sheen.

Rathdrumgal, I buy paint at Sherwin Williams, the Pro Mar series.

Okay, I would say the first thing to do is make things easier on yourself. What we do is get the same color paint. We happen to like Benjamin Moore's 925. The technology today matching paints are so much better that you can coat a piece of cardboard with this paint and match it with Behr, Sherwin Williams, or any good premium paint.

We find this color pretty much goes with anybody's decor. It's a light color which makes rooms look bigger, and looks very clean. If you have good walls I would go with semigloss or eggshell. If walls are not that good go with flat.

Generally once you paint apartment you can often just touch it up with this paint usually matches perfectly unless you had someone who was a smoker, Burns candles, etc.

We just had a girl who lived in an apartment for nearly 3 years about we touched it up and everybody thinks apartment was recently painted. I think the touchup time took us something like 20 minutes.

Okay I think this is important. What we do with painting is buy good paint edgers. I happen to like the ones Rubbermaid makes, but there are other good ones . There also bad ones out there. Note they have improved a lot if anyone remembers the older bad ones

The ones at Home Depot and Lowe's are pretty good. If you don't paint yourself, I urge you to try a bit so that you can train someone else. I find that handymen very often are resistant to use the new methods of painting, until they do it for a little while and then they want to borrow your tools to do their place.

If you have a couple guys it's even easier. The edgers go around baseboards, door frames, window frames, where the wall meets ceiling etc. with good paint it's amazing how fast you can edge a room.

The other thing I have learned to use is a Wagner's battery-operated paint stick. They save so much labor costs that I sometimes just toss them when I'm done. I would say you do want to get the battery-operated one though. Hold about a third of a gallon in the stick reservoir. After the edging is done you can knock out a room incredibly quickly with these. Again I've had some handyman say "I use brushes"or "I use a regular long handled roller" . I told him no,.. not on this job,.. we have to use these tools. They grumble little bit but as far as they know I'm just a manager and I have other bosses.

Again usually after they use these for a little while they want to take both home and I've lost a number of them because back but since it's saved me so much in labor costs I consider myself way ahead.

I think there might be some videos over on YouTube show you how to operate the Wagner power stick.

These you barely need to use drop cloths, but I would anyway. I trained a boy in town who was down on his luck how to use these and told him to do an apartment. I left for a while to get some other things and when I came back he was almost done and the place looked like a professionally done it. Setting somebody up with a good paint pad, a good tray, and a good battery-operated power stick and with a little bit of training that generally takes 15 or 20 minutes,.. staying with the same color and sheen of paint can save you a lot of money and headaches.

We used to put the name and number and sheen of the paint in a closet where no one can really notice it for future reference. However since we have stuck to the same paint we might just write down the sheen. That is, maybe in the bathroom or kitchen using a semigloss sheen because it's easier to wipe down, maybe an egg shell or flat the walls are great in other rooms. But now it's pretty obvious which paint we might use,... Where. (don't get confused with eggshell, matte and satin,..stick with one if you can or record it. )

Oh if the woodwork is painted we usually paint the wood work semigloss white. By the way the paint edgers are usually really good for doing those too.

Semi-gloss paint. Standardize on colors. Keep a record of the formula used.

Once a place is painted...well, now that I think of it, we haven't had to actually repaint *anywhere* except when we wanted to change colors completely...and our places look great.

Here is a link to the Wagner BATTERY operated paint stick. (I don't like the non battery ones nearly as well)

Hollis and NE,

I know what a paint edger is and does but which one is your favorite? The red plastic ones sold at Lowes are the only ones I am familiar with. Are there others that are better or quicker?

Also, what are you all using to 'cut-in' where the wall meets the 8ft. ceiling? I am the only one on my paint crew who is tall enough to do this job without using a ladder. I use an edger but I am constantly stopping to re-load it with paint. Please tell me there is an easier way!

Roy, as i said I like the Rubber maid ones,...hard to find lately and I don't know who makes it for them. So I too usually get the Lowes ones now,..BTW I don't try to clean then,..its almost impossible to get them clean enough to re use them..

One frustrating part of SOME pads are the fact that the removable replacement refills CAN slip if you use the at a wrong angle, I usually put a spot of glue on the bottom and top edge,..just a dot or two ,..enough that it won't slip,..you CAN usually still remove them to replace them when you are done,..

Depending on what glue you use, you might do that the night before or when you buy one....My favorite glue for that is GOOP..(if you have time of several hours or the night before) Superglue GEL if you don't,

Bill, I think that you are beginning to see the challenges that you face with more clarity. My guess is that you are spending more than $200 in materials to re paint.

You really can't absorb these turnover costs every 12 months on $500 month houses...these are the pitfalls of lower cost rentals....repairs and maintenance aren't cheaper than they are for similarly sized houses in other areas that rent for 4x the price.

.Reducing the frequency of turnovers seems to be the best way to improving your bottom line. I know that Jeffrey advocates use of screening systems aimed at landing 3+ year tenants. You should follow suit and make the changes that are necessary to stop leasing to the short termers.

As for painting yourself with aid of a low cost helper; that may help you survive in times of distress, but you could do the same painting service for hire and then donate your earnings to your rental house account.....not very appealing huh?

I have long term tenants, 3 years to 15 right now. I repaint between tenants, but then, it isn't every year. I won't pay to have it painted, way too easy to paint myself, especially an empty unit. No furniture to move or cover, don't have to clean the tools after the day is done. I have spent many late nights after the day job getting a unit ready. The kids even helped as they got older.

Careful use of joint compound can fill a hole without much work or sanding. Touch up with an artist brush. If it is only one area that needs repainting, only do that wall. If you paint corner to corner on a wall, any color difference will not be noticeable, or paint it an accent color. Edge without taping.

Woodwork gets a gloss or semigloss paint, that washes up much better than the flatter sheen, same color throughout the unit, so they don't get painted as often. Ceilings do not get painted unless they absolutely need it.

My My My... what are you thinking? To start off with, all property's need at least touch up-- if for no other reason but to get the paint smell.

1st use the same paint -- for example for 25 years I've use Glidden high hiding Antique White-- from the glidden store-- use the same product number. What that means is if home depot has glidden on sale--- ITS NOT THE SAME even if it says Antique white. Use 1 gallon (buy case) because the plastic 5 gal containers have contaminates like plastic pieces left inside the bucket.

2nd you don't have to paint floor to ceiling after the first time using your NEW paint selection. Damages are usually 2 ft off the floor and 2 ft from the ceiling-- so only the center needs paint------ the paint blends.

Gotta disagree with you on the cheaper paint stick,I have used the push type (ugh!) and the squeeze the trigger one,..(better) but If you never used the more expensive battery operated one, I think you will certainly think its well work the extra money,.You CAN clean them and use them over.But IF you are just going use it again the next day you can put a plastic bag over it, BUT be sure to include the part that the port the paint goes into and I always sprinkle a bit of water into the bag so that the humidity is 100% and nothing dries out,..also use a good elastic or something to securely to keep it air tight.

For the sake of full disclosure...I used to paint between every tenant. Big mistake.

A few things to consider......

Semi gloss paint and a magic eraser sponge.....will work wonders.

Gloss on trim...Who touches trim? (other than door casings) A home can be painted many cycles w out painting trim.

Yes, it's okay to paint just one wall. (and just door trim)

The paint formula?? (The sticker they print and put on the can)...They will gladly print two....no extra charge. Put the extra on the inside of a light switch cover. Especially if you don't follow the next, popular, advice.

As stated above....Paint all of your homes the same color.

The most important tip? Lower your standards. You would be amazed at what your competition is offering and how low most people's standard of living is.

Not to put this too lightly, but my current belief is that someone lives in a home until they can no longer stand their own filth. If it's clean...They will want it.

Best of luck. Congratulations on making it this far. :)

That Rubbermaid edger is tough to find - Goole can't locate site for it, and it's not listed on Rubbermaid's web site.

Can someone put a url to a site that shows a picture of it and how it works?

Thanks.

Bill,

Great post! And congrats on taking time to analyze your biz! Mom&Pops who do their own painting and cleaning tend to dismiss this "cost" and the lost rent during turnovers. A few years ago when I HAD to turn my business around or lose it, taking control of moveout expenses played a major part.

For what it's worth, I did ALL my own painting for 20 years, until we reached 80+ units, and YES! I spent my life painting!

A few points:

-marketing. Make certain you are marketing to the better residents.

-screening. Our 2 Minute Visit in their home before final approval lets me SEE how they care for a home. This is already reducing our turnover costs.

-Wear n Tear. What does your lease say? What do you allow?

It IS possible and DOES happen for residents to leave the home perfectly clean, not requiring ANY touch ups or cleaning. So shoot for that in your lease and management.

My lease is clear: it defines wear and tear as the natural degradation by age and sunlight, under normal residential use. It lists a bunch of stuff that is NOT wear and tear like stains, gouges, smears, marker, stickers, crayon marks, rust, etc etc. Take control! Don't leave it to the res or a judge to decide what YOU should allow.

It also states clearly the res is responsible to clean the home to move in condition.

-I include a list of HIGH repair costs which they sign at move in which covers my cost when I DO have to paint, etc. (It shows $250 per room. Includes labor, materials, and my overhead) If they CHOOSE to leave ANY work for me they pay for it.

-Painter. It takes 2-3 hours to paint a room. The living room is usually the largest but is quicker to paint.

I pay $50-75 per room for basic painting (flat white ceiling, semi-gloss white trim, grey satin walls.) +$10 per closet. I count the hall and stairwell as a room.

So 3 bed, 1 bath, kitchen, bath, hall, living room = 8 x $50 = $400 labor.

Keep looking for a part time painter, willing to make $15-20 per hour and pay by the room.

Check out The Idaho Painter on YouTube for great training videos showing time savers.

Quick tips: nail holes - use painter's putty (glazing compound) push it in the hole with your thumb and wipe of the excess with a rag. Paint it instantly.

I used a Paint Stick from Lowes. $29 and lasted about 2 houses. Bag it overnight and between houses. No more trays or dipping into the bucket. MUCH faster!

My painter uses an 18" roller on the walls.

We use rattle cans for painting window trim and unmounted baseboard or quarter round.

Car wax on the glass with a paint pad rather than tape. Remove with a razorblade before it gets hard.

In my area semigloss walls are for school cafeterias or prisons. At Convention 2016 Lisa T, the special trainer said to never paint rooms with semigloss. Higher paying customers will not accept semigloss.

Stay in control!

BRAD

The BATTERY operated Wagner's paint stick.

The BATTERY operated Wagner's paint stick.

The BATTERY operated Wagner's paint stick.

I can't say it enough!

If you have ever used a regular paint stick you WILL like the battery operated one much more. Its WORTH the extra money in ease,speed and thus reduced labor costs.

Your handyman might "borrow " it when your project is done to use it at their home,..check out the video in my prior post above....

note about the cheap duckvalve,..(first one should last thru your first project, maybe more,..but IF it fails sometime, its a quick and easy fix, worth having a few extra,..)

Hollis,

LisaFL,

Hollis,

I did look at the video before asking the question. It seems there are different models, different prices. I wasn't clear on which model it was and was hoping you could say which one you were happy with because not all the reviews on any of the models are all good.

you should be charging the tenants for paint at a year or so. i figure paint is good for 5 years...if they can hammer paint in a year they need to pay for that.

my paint is all swiss coffee eggshell walls, swiss coffee semi trim, the ceilings (lids) get white shadow in the flattest cheap crap i can find...glidden or such. window sills get the semi so the clean up easier

you should have a painter that is hourly and tooled up. a decent organized pro can be out of a room for less than $100 for a larger room that doesn't need the lids done. that INCLUDES doors and trim in semi.

Quick note: I don't prorate.

I got this straight from a judge: If the wall needs to be repainted due to resident negligence, it needs to be painted...no matter how old the paint is.

Check the label - many paints brag "12 year warranty" or "25 years". THAT is for the paint itself lasting. Dirt, crayon, lipstick, scratches are all resident DAMAGE.

(we don't prorate the age of a broken window or smashed drywall. I have lived in my house over 20+ years and not had to repaint other than the rooms Wifey wanted a different color. 3 kids, dogs, youth group...paint is still fine.)

BRAD

FYI Grey is "in". Yellows, tans, browns, beiges, etc are now outdated.

As posted earlier i've used these sticks for years from the straight push type to squeeze type and battery. I like the push type the best. You get a feel for how much pressure is needed. It/s also the lightest which after 3 hours is important.

The reason i only use the sticks for maybe 3 houses is the outer tube starts crazing and the inner tube starts dragging making it harder to push. at 17.00 divided by 3 houses that's 5.75 per house?

LisaFL

The model I use is Wagner 0530004 Smart Flow Roller. 39.00 @ Amazon with prime.

I have not had the problem that Myob had with them. I have learned to bump the switch to get the amount of paint I want.Never thought it was a problem,.. I never thought it was much heavier than the push type. Of course I seldom do much painting now as I hire it out.

I'm a little late to the game, but my view on paint is that dirt, dings, scratches, and scuffs are all damage. Ditto with nails in walls to hang stuff. All that gets billed to the outgoing tenant at the rate of whatever my handyman charges to fix + 20% for admin time.

I buy Wal-Mart el cheapo ColorPlace paint by the 5 gallon bucket. Cost is about $70 for the Satin sheen. I know Brad says Grey is in, but in my humble market (Class C rentals, blue collar, college kids, young grads) the fact that there is PAINT on the walls that has been redone in the past decade is a WOW factor for them. These are not your up-and-coming hipsters who require the latest fad, so I have no reason to paint over all my beautiful beige with gray, only to have them change their minds 5 years from now.

Painting is one of the few maintenance tasks I will still do on occasion because I like the excercise (why run on a treadmill when I can paint?) and it's satisfying to see how nicely spruced up a tired old place looks with new paint. However, I've been hiring it out more and more.

Sources of cheap labor aren't limited to family: try college kids, church youth group, Boy & Girl scouts, or ask a few local REALTORS who they recommend as fair priced, hard workers. I have had great luck with the $20/hour type of folks. They don't need supervision and do a good job. Like Brad says, I establish my maximum time...say 3 hours to a room and that includes trimming out baseboards. So $60 to repaint a bedroom, hallway, kitchen, or living room. One of my 2-bed abodes shouldn't run more than $360-$420 (2 bed, 1 bath, kitchen, living area, hallway, 1 misc space). I let them know up front if they can get it done in less time (saving them time and me $$$) I'll pay a bonus that's equal to half the savings I get.

brad, i was in court in so/cal once when the judge took a break to announce to those there on landlord issues that HE allowed three years service life for paint, carpet and window covering. he advised ANYONE that had painted longer than that ago that they were out of luck unless the walls were damaged. it is likely a local thing so it's a good idea for the landlords here to swing by and watch a few cases when your down at the courthouse. certainly sit for a few if you ever have to file or respond

now we here know that 3 years is ridiculous and i took it upon myself to stretch it to 5-7.