1,

You'd be surprised how many people next to you in public are packing heat.

Maybe LTD has a number.

PS

This is ANOTHER great reason to be the MANAGER, not the OWNER, and NEVER give out your personal address. Never.

WE have exposure to casual Open Shouse tire kickers and the friends and relatives of applicants and residents.

Here in Los Angeles California the Los Angeles Police Department issues only a handful of gun permits. Also it is now illegal to "open carry". On top of that, if a homeowner or landlord uses a gun to protect themselves or family members (or for any reason) their Insurance Policy will not cover any liability including law suits.

I just had that happen to me on Thursday evening. I understand the conceal carry, I do it myself. Just not sure why anyone would open carry unless they want to add a bit of "tough guy" to their persona.

Even though it is legal.

Open carry doesn't mean they've passed anything. They could have been given a gun by Grampa and open-carry it in NC and other states.

CONCEALED carry requires an 8-hour class, a written test, a background check, fingerprinting, etc.

I've thought a lot about this, since yesterday afternoon.

Considering the current racial tensions,(He was a minority) I can only imagine that his open carry is a, possibly, outward, militant stance and a poor choice of how to begin a business deal.

I should also mention that despite my lifelong pre-loaded southern politeness, he never made eye contact or spoke to me. I am white. The woman he was with did all of the talking.

WMH(nc) I believe you are correct. Although I understand that open carry is a right, I have only previously seen it on those crazy, bumper sticker covered, van driving, anti establishment old white dudes, walking into Walmart. I didn't think it was a good choice then, either. I promptly gathered my family and left.

We LL's are a heterogeneous group. It seems that for many on this forum whenever another poster shares a new screening tip, that the first response is "that is illegal, you can't violate their rights." Usually, it is a stretch to understand just how a right has been infringed by screening.

Clearly, this individual has every right to carry his handgun, and to deny him residency based on his weapon would be a clear violation of his rights.

Robert J, that is just scary.

In rural MO, if you use your firearm to protect yourself against an intruder in your own home, a jury has the response, "He dun needed killin" and would laugh anyone out of court who thought otherwise.

In fact, the defense is "The Castle Doctrine".

Meanwhile, most of my tenants likely own firearms as most of them have hunting licenses. It is currently bow season for tasty deer meat, and firearm season opens in a few weeks. Of course, those are for long guns, not hand guns, but once you allow long guns having a hand gun is a short step.

Poster feels uncomfortable.

The constitution is for EVERYBODY.

The 2nd ammendment is for EVERYBODY.

The right to keep and bear arms to protect oneself and one's property is very different than the right to open-carry your gun onto MY property, sorry.

A prospective resident who thought it necessary to openly present arms to a potential landlord is not showing great judgment.

WMH (nc) We seem to be on the same page.

Yes, the body language completes the picture of what I was witnessing. As someone said... "Gut instinct." Always go w it.

Although I fully support the second amendment, I still think an individual's decision to bring a weapon to a business meeting shows their lack of judgment. This judgment will extend to their employment.

Very often, although some may criticize, I judge a person who I am showing a home, of whether or not I think they can stay employed. This includes the person who can't put down the phone while viewing my home, lack of pleasantries, neck and face tattoos, a general ability to communicate, park on the grass even though the driveway is empty, or the real deal breaker, If they try to walk in my homes while smoking, and now...Brings a gun to a showing. I still give them a chance to disprove me with the info on a application/ credit report….but I am rarely proven incorrect. Call it “judgment” or call it “red flags”. I constantly shake my head thinking...Who does these kind of things? I often share my LL stories w others, but they are rarely believed. They would be amazed. :)

No I'm not drunk:) 'Shouse' should read HOUSE.

1,

Only follow your gut when it is saying "Slow down bucko!", NEVER when it says "I have a good feeling about these people even tho 11 red flags popped up."

I respect that you feel uncomfortable. But be super careful to treat everyone the same. Give an app to EVERYONE. Screen AFTER they submit it.

Caution: Don't let this get you into Fair Housing Law trouble. Whenever I get something weird I think "Is this a paid tester?"

Screen based on FACTS not FEELINGS. Can they do three things: Pay the rent, Care for the home, and Be a decent neighbor.

BRAD

Brad 20,000 "I have a good feeling about these people even tho 11 red flags popped up." been burned there, WAY too many times.

WMH, you say individuals Constitutional Rights do not apply whenever they are exercised on rented property. Imagine if you were to apply that reasoning to ethnicity, religious worship, or free speech. Surely you can see the hypocrisy in banning one right and permitting others.

Sisco, "Open Carry" is a state-by-state thing, not a Constitutional Right of the Land.

OWNING a gun is my right. CARRYING IT AROUND in public - not necessarily. There are many places you can't carry a gun, even if you have a CC permit. And property owners DO have the right to request firearms not be carried on their premises.

Sorry, gun owners are not protected groups in and of themselves.

A person does not choose their ethnicity, country of origin and really, most don't even choose their religion (it's taught from birth, so it's not really a conscious choice.)

It's like saying tattoos are part of our constitutional right to free speech. Yes you are free to choose to express yourself in words and pictures on your own body. And I am free to not rent to you because of that choice. And business do not have to hire tattooed folks.

Sisco: I hate to be the one to tell you, but you do not know what you are talking about.

“Clearly, this individual has every right to carry his handgun, and to deny him residency based on his weapon would be a clear violation of his rights.”

I can lawfully refuse to rent a home to this person based on his decision to open carry. Even if he has a Second Amendment right to do so (he does not in fact have a Second Amendment right to open carry), there is no “protected group” for anti-housing-discrimination purposes of “idiots who want to make targets of themselves by open-carrying.”

I would not be violating his rights; I would be exercising my own right to decide who to rent to.

Don (pa). Ummm..... I'm pretty sure I've never seen someone pull out a car in the middle of Walmart out of anger or frustration..... . I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.......

I don't "flea in fear", what I do is use my, now, vast experience, spinning around on this planet, to know that bad moments follow bad choices.

There is a 100% chance that no one will be shot by a person who is not carrying a gun. I will let you work out the math on the other end.

Keep in mind, I FULLY, support the second amendment, but I am always amazed when people decide to "test" the system....don't comply (regardless whether they are in the right) and then act surprised when things don't go well.

I believe in free speech but I also believe in consequences when that right is misused. Like I have always told my kids....you can be, look like, and act like anything you want, but if you act like a thug....look like a thug...don't be surprised when you are treated like a thug.

As many of you know I own a firearm and security guard training school. I am a strict constutionalist, especially regarding the 2nd Amendment.

Many urban people have an irrational fear of people with guns because they are not regularly exposed to them. For example, I've never seen anyone open carry in the urban center of Las Vegas or any major city. When someone does it causes a stir. You can legally carry on the Las Vegas Strip. And as I tell my students, gooood luck trying. They won't arrest you for carrying a gun, they will arrest you for disorderly conduct. Charges will be dropped, but they will spend the night or weekend in jail. It is an illegal harassment of lawful citizens.

But they get away with it because the populace is ignorant of the law and their rights and many people, even here on MR LL seem to think only cops should have guns. Well folks I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I've been through three wars in central america and I can tell you firsthand that when only the government has the guns the People are no longer citizens, but subjects at the mercy of police and military tyranny, and criminals. Look at Mexico.

In MY town in rural AZ, lots of people carry, even women. Nobody bats an eye. It is normal to see several old cowboys at the donut shop with guns on their hips.

As for the OC vs CCW argument - When people see a gun they look for a badge and a uniform. If they see that they relax. "Oh, it's a cop or security guard, they aren't going to hurt me."

If they see a regular person with a gun they feel intimidated and at risk because of the unknown background. It is the fat sloppy guys in t-shirts and shorts who just ventured out of their parents basement carrying their AR15s to "assert their rights" that scare people and hurt everyone's rights. Even though most people open carrying guns are among the most law abiding - only surpassed by CCW permit holders. Both groups commit misconduct with firearms FAR LESS than police, nationally.

Criminals DO NOT open carry unless they are actively engaged in crime. I personally prefer to see people open carry, that way I KNOW they have a gun. I, myself rarely open carry. When I do I am usually in an instructor or security "uniform," and that seems to calm people's fears. About the only times I OC are going to and from training carrying a full size duty gun that is hard to conceal, and maybe stopping for a donut or to pump gas.

If we do not pursue our constitutional rights however, we will lose them. This is what happened over the past century or so. Back in the 1800's people carrying guns was not unusual. During the 1900's in urban American is became so. The prohibition era criminals didn't help matters. My grandmother taught school in a one room school house in Oklahoma around the turn of the last century. She rode a horse and carried a six gun to school so did some of her students. They didn't even have cars yet. The wild indians had only been "pacified" for 20 years if that.

However in eastern cities like New York even back in the early 1800's open carry was frowned upon or maybe already illegal. Look as far back as Williamsburg. Ben Franklin didn't run around town with a brace of pistols in his sash, thought I'll bet he had one stashed in a pocket somewhere.

In old western towns people usually didn't open carry a lot either unless they were coming or going to the range or trail, though many had a hide out gun behind their jacket. Some towns like Abilene and Tombstone imposed "no guns" laws - and had gunmen like Wyatt Earp to enforce it - in violation of the Constitution, even back then.

For many decades carrying guns was a non-issue and our rights kind of got bypassed. Until Florida in the 80's started the CCW permit trend. I received one of the first permits and have held one ever since. As we seem to be entering a period of heightened security concerns more people are carrying larger guns to deal with potentially greater threats. And with the country arming up and many people expecting civil unrest or governmental intervention against rights, open carry and long gun carry will probably become more widespread.

Great post LTD. Guns aren't the problem and all the silly ar$ed gun laws in the world won't be obeyed by the criminals out there. Many if those laws simply make it harder for people to protect themselves against criminal's.

You guys really crack me up. "Flee in fear"..... "Afraid of guns". NONE of which was stated or true. To steer the conversation in that direction is bizarre, at best. This entire post is NOT about any judgement on the second amendment, only what a bad choice it is to bring a gun to a business deal.

Mickie (oh) because you asked, the "system" that I refer to is exactly the scenario described by live the dream (az) very well written post. If you open carry, expect to be approached (right or wrong) and if you don't comply, expect a consequence. Ie...people get freaked out when they see a gun....police are called...a confrontation happens.... One bad choice later (by either side) and bullets are flying. Call it "flee in fear" if you want. I just call it good common sense. I happen to love my family and would like to keep them around.

Do I agree w this system? No. Do I understand that this is the current system and if I wish to keep my children alive, I also share with them this knowledge of how the system works....yes.

Being just a dumb Californian... isn't the second amendment a prohibition of what the GOVERNMENT can't do? It has nothing to do with what a private individual or business can do. If I want to, I as a LL can legally advertise that I don't accept gun owners, democrats, loud mouths, or people who don't answer nosy questions (5th). If it isn't protected class then I can discriminate.

I am curious if the prospective tenant were a well groomed individual just off work, wearing nice trousers, shirt, tie and an un buttoned sport coat; if you catch a glimpse of a handgun on his belt, is this concerning?

I understand that an individual who is dirty, disheveled, wearing prison inspired gang culture clothing shows up, you are rightly concerned- open carry or not.

I dont care what guns a tenant lawfully has in my rental.

My current concern is someone coming to a showing carrying. I don't do private showings and there's often 2 or 3 groups at the same time in the house. I would be concerned about my liability if something happens...

Sisco (mo) Any...person that exhibits bad judgment, and I believe that is what this is, bringing a firearm to a business meeting, is not something that I could overlook in any context. It is a window into my future w this person, if I should choose to continue.

Just for the record, this person was well groomed, poor social skills.... but well groomed.

My summary is this....

If you combine the open carry, to a business meeting....surly and rude demeanor w no attempt at politeness...current racial tensions... equals a human walking around w a "I don't give a S***", attitude. He is a walking billboard for trouble. Now that's his choice and, honestly, I don't care, but I don't need that trouble on my doorstep. This job is hard enough. I am grateful that he self eliminated, early in the process.

I have enjoyed everyone's responses and appreciate all of the spirited debate (even though it wasn't meant to be one. lol) As always, I am grateful for such a generous group of folks.

a big fan of guns here, but those who open carry in the 'hoods i deal in are those with windy blather i can do without.

those carrying concealed are welcome.