Tenant pushing limits
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Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 12:26 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Robert J [CA]) Sep 7, 2016 12:30 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 12:34 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Sep 7, 2016 12:45 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Sep 7, 2016 12:45 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Jim in O C [CA]) Sep 7, 2016 1:00 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by WMH [NC]) Sep 7, 2016 1:06 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by plenty [MO]) Sep 7, 2016 1:18 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 1:21 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 1:31 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by jb [OH]) Sep 7, 2016 1:47 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Sep 7, 2016 1:48 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Hippd [KY]) Sep 7, 2016 2:24 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Amy [MO]) Sep 7, 2016 2:27 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by LoriC [CO]) Sep 7, 2016 2:49 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Stephen [ON]) Sep 7, 2016 2:59 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 7, 2016 3:23 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 7, 2016 3:41 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 3:48 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 4:52 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by TenantWhisperer [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 4:53 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Sep 7, 2016 5:42 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Steve [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 6:17 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by J [FL]) Sep 7, 2016 6:40 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Sep 7, 2016 7:28 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 7, 2016 10:32 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by tryan [MA]) Sep 8, 2016 5:03 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by mike [CA]) Sep 9, 2016 12:42 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Sep 9, 2016 2:59 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Oct 30, 2016 1:03 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Oct 30, 2016 4:40 PM
       Tenant pushing limits (by RentsDue [MA]) Oct 31, 2016 5:14 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Oct 31, 2016 5:24 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by plenty [MO]) Oct 31, 2016 7:00 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Steve [MA]) Oct 31, 2016 10:06 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Oct 31, 2016 10:11 AM
       Tenant pushing limits (by Blue [IL]) Oct 31, 2016 9:22 PM


Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 12:26 PM
Message:

My new tenant (moved in August 1) is being difficult. I own a horse farm and rent the house out while I maintain the barn and surrounding area. I provide a fenced yard for tenant and as an addendum to my lease's pets prohibited section, gave permission for their one dog. Revocable at any time. Lots of rules like they have to pick up, leash dog unless in backyard, no other animals, etc. I have chickens and horses and cannot risk a loose dog roaming the property. In the past, I allowed my previous tenant to allow her dog to run free while I was there, after observing dog for a few months and getting to know tenants. Anyway, this new tenant I found out brought two cats into unit. I told them they had to get rid of them and they argued that I have barn cats etc. and they didn't think I'd care and that they hadn't read the lease. Eventually they sort of apologized and I told them if they wanted to discuss keeping the cats I would be open to it but they gave the cats away instead. But they continue to let their dog run loose outside the fenced area and have allowed friends with two other dogs to do the same. When I confronted him calmly about his dog he said he wasn't going to confine his dog and would never have signed a lease that stated he had to. I calmly told him that he did in fact sign a lease stating just that. He argued and argued. I did not mention the friends dogs in order to not exacerbate an already heated discussion. What is the wisest way to proceed? My barn manager had to chase the dog out of the barnyard last week where it was chasing my chickens. I want to have a good relationship with my tenants. In the past I was more than willing to discuss things with them- I told them that if they had any questions or concerns I was happy to speak with them. Instead I feel as though they blatantly disregard me and their lease so I am reluctant to "give" anything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

--174.192.x.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 12:30 PM
Message:

Since the tenants dog and two cats can do damage to your farm animals, I would ask them for a larger deposit to cover any injuries caused by the tenants pets. While a chicken may be worth a few bucks, medical bills can run into the thousands. So I would ask for a super large deposit or removal of the pets. --173.55.xx.x




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 12:34 PM
Message:

I can't. I'm in Massachusetts. Pet deposit not allowed. Only security deposit equal to one months rent. --174.192.x.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 12:45 PM
Message:

some states/locales have regs that state something about "worrying" or harassing livestock. Look into them and proceed accordingly.

More importantly it maybe time fo you to search this site of "Aldo's Rule #1] and also it my be time to issue the "Happy Clause" also searchable herein.

Depending on how hard it is to fill your space you may want to get rid of them now as they are disrespecting you your livestock and your lease....as if it has no more value "or utility" than toilet paper.

It ain't gonna get better.

No more talking make all communications form now on in writing via Cert. Mail w RRR & regular mail. --173.70.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 12:45 PM
Message:

some states/locales have regs that state something about "worrying" or harassing livestock. Look into them and proceed accordingly.

More importantly it maybe time fo you to search this site of "Aldo's Rule #1] and also it my be time to issue the "Happy Clause" also searchable herein.

Depending on how hard it is to fill your space you may want to get rid of them now as they are disrespecting you your livestock and your lease....as if it has no more value "or utility" than toilet paper.

It ain't gonna get better.

No more talking make all communications form now on in writing via Cert. Mail w RRR & regular mail. --173.70.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:00 PM
Message:

Lawyer time to remove them. You accepted a PITA tenant and it will not get better only worse. I have found over many years a lawyer letter tells tenants you mean business.

--108.89.xxx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:06 PM
Message:

He has a fenced yard and won't use it? This guy is a control freak - has to be boss.

So you need to get rid of him because it is only going to get worse.

Calmly, send a letter advising him of Happy Clause, unless he wants to indeed abide by the lease he signed. No more heated discussions! Just words on paper. --173.22.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:18 PM
Message:

No more talking. Copy and paste the lease clause in a notification letter. Everything in writting. You should follow your own rules. Counrty people are just that! --66.87.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:21 PM
Message:

I appreciate all the responses. And I agree, he seems like a very difficult tenant. They have been demanding and difficult since the day they moved in. It's too bad, like all tenants, they seemed like good people when I first met them. I worry what if he refuses to leave, and instead makes my life more difficult or damages the property, etc. Is it worth letting the dust settle for now and waiting for a future offense after this dispute? Or to incite him further by and acting the happiness clause? What recourse do I have if I give them the option to leave and they choose to stay and continue to break terms of the lease? --174.192.x.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:31 PM
Message:

And yes, when they came to see the property for the first time, I told them offense was being installed that week where they could let the dog off leash. I explained the fence would go from one back corner of the house to the other back corner. In the lease, it says the dog is only allowed off leash if contained by a fence. At all other times, in all other areas, the dog must be leashed. During our disagreement, he stated that he didn't know there was a fence going up. Then later in the argument stated that the fence I put up is much smaller than the one I explained to him when they moved in. It's not. It's exactly where I said it was going. Regardless, the lease plainly states that the dog cannot be on leash unless it is in a fenced in area so the fence is only to the tenants benefit, not to mine. --174.192.x.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by jb [OH]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:47 PM
Message:

Time to invoke the Happy clause. It will not get any better. If you shy away from it now it will only get worse. Put it in writing and maybe they will get the message. If not evict. --24.123.x.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 1:48 PM
Message:

Here in the province of Ontario it became so difficult to be a smaller rental housing provider a lot of the houses which once upon a time were rentals are being sold then becoming owner occupied. Some of those houses on a farm were demolished. The broken rental dispute process along with the rent control system many have decided to leave the rental housing business forever. --74.220.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Hippd [KY]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 2:24 PM
Message:

I would go and visit this fool and inform him that if the dog is seen outside the fence area unleashed causing havoc you will file for eviction. Thank you, have a nice day.

This is of course if you even want them there. The whole cat story, plus friends over with their animals....shutter.

--74.132.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Amy [MO]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 2:27 PM
Message:

Wow. They have no respect for your animals, farm, or the laws of the lease. They are already rebellious one month in. Legal letter or give em the boot where the sun don't shine.

Happy clause!

Sorry you have to deal with this. It's bad enough when they bring in all the animals, don't follow rules, etc but to have them messing with another part of your business-that's just wrong. Complete disrespect. --65.31.xxx.x




Tenant pushing limits (by LoriC [CO]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 2:49 PM
Message:

"I calmly told him that he did in fact sign a lease stating just that. He argued and argued"---TIME FOR HIM TO GO!

He is the tenant, you are the LL-----no more arguing or discussing with this fool. Put it in writing and give him a deadline (ASAP) to make a decision--#1. Happy clause or #2. face eviction

Cut your losses and get him out--he's only been there one month and already being a PITA. Life is too short. --65.114.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Stephen [ON]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 2:59 PM
Message:

Rachel, you ask " Is it worth letting the dust settle for now and waiting for a future offense after this dispute?"

Not it is not worth letting the dust settle. You would only do so in the hope that things would get better. They will not, and the speed with which they get worse will only increase if you are passive in the face of this defiant, lease breaking tenant behavior. You need to act now to give the tenant a clear choice: comply with the lease or go. Being nice and letting go of these issues will just set the scene for further troublemaking. What if they decide to move on to property damage, after they have got away with setting their animals loose? --76.69.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 3:23 PM
Message:

Rachel, back where I hale from in the North of Ireland we had the right to graze sheep up on a type of community mountain that is if you owned so many acres of aerable land down below,if a dog was loose up on the mountain and bothering sheep, you had the right to shoot the dog on sight,no questions asked. That would be a little different in America, @#But who knows check it out,where ,I don't know? I would evict this character on one of the lease clauses.You don't need the money that bad! Charlie...... ..... .... ... .. . --70.215.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 3:41 PM
Message:

Rachael, I presume there's an animal control in your area. where all dogs have to be licensed and if out of own fenced yard, on a leash ,if not then fines, check it out,might as well make it as difficult as possible. Charlie...... ..... .... ... .. . --70.215.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 3:48 PM
Message:

Thank you for all the responses. Wish I could follow the grazing laws of Ireland ;-) I will look into how to initiate the happy clause. My fear is they will ignore it and cause more trouble. So far even if I try to evict them due to the dog is have to first demand they get rid of dog and if they didn't within 48 hours I could move to evict. But I wonder how strong an eviction based on a dog issue really is. Thank you guys for making me feel less of a bad guy. --174.192.x.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 4:52 PM
Message:

Just starting the eviction process will drive home the fact that you are serious. Often times, just the 30 day served by a constable is enough to get their attention.

So, stop arguing/negotiating with this guy. He signed the lease!! Draw up a 30 day notice to quit, call the constable and wait.

In any landlord/tenant relationship, somebody will be in charge. If it's not you, it's HIM. --66.30.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by TenantWhisperer [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 4:53 PM
Message:

The "Just starting eviction" post is mine. Not sure how Rachel(MA) got tagged for it. --66.30.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 5:42 PM
Message:

As others have said, you need to get rid of him now. I shudder to think of YOUR liability if a non-horse savvy loose dog causes injury to one of your horses being boarded or a rider. I love my Labs, and I live in the country, but I would never let my dogs be loose around horses. My dogs have not been socialized to horses, and your tenant sounds like an idiot not to see how unsafe this situation is. I would get a lawyer and notify him of his lease violation per your state's law to start on the eviction process for failure to follow lease terms. I would also call Animal Control if the dog were loose on your property. He has only leased the house and the yard. He and his animals should not be trespassing onto the horse farm. You will need to make this very clear to future tenants -- have them initial this lease term. This situation would also be very unsafe if you ever lease to a family and the kids start wondering over to pet the horses. --98.145.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 6:17 PM
Message:

Rachel, life is too short to put up with this. It's time for your tenant to become acquainted with Aldo's Two rules of Landlording.

1. The landlord is in charge.

2. The Tenant is not.

You should give them a written 7 day notice to cure a major lease violation then depending upon their response proceed to evict. If you've never done a 7 day, I suggest you consult with a local attorney.

--72.93.xxx.x




Tenant pushing limits (by J [FL]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 6:40 PM
Message:

I'm sorry this is happening to you. I've had a couple PITAs myself but the problems happened much later in the lease so less of an issue. I'm sure it's not fun having to deal with such obstinate, willfully stupid behavior only one month in.

Maybe you should consider doing month to month leases after you get rid of this guy, given your situation with the livestock. --50.89.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 7:28 PM
Message:

Unfortunately there is some ambiguity about what is considered tenants land and what is mine. The way the property is set up it wouldn't make any sense to fence the front yard in and create a clear fenced boundary, I can't explain it but trust me. The barn is mostly fenced off but I have rights to the surrounding areas as well and the surrounding areas are on the house side, if that makes any sense. The tenants and their kids can use the front yard uninterrupted but the bottom of the front yard is in my area though not fenced off - it's an imaginary boundary surrounding the fence to the horse paddock which is off limits according to the lease. That whole boundary thing is confusing, however, there is no ambiguity at all about the lease. The lease and addendum clearly state that the dog must be leashed or contained by a fence (the only fence capable of doing this is the back yard, the other fences are attached to the barnyard and included it its jurisdiction). The lease also states that tenants, dogs, etc. are NOT allowed in or around the barn, livestock, etc. Dog must be leashed when my dogs are on the property...Etc. Stuff like that. My pet addendum/horse liability release both clearly state these rules and the tenant HAS initialed/signed these terms. I like Aldo's Rules. I live in Mass. and therefore feel as though the whole renting experience is completely in the tenants favor and have to gain more confidence that I must steer. Month to months sound inviting but very hard to find anyone willing to sign one :-/ --73.149.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 7, 2016 10:32 PM
Message:

Rachel,my youngest daughter lives in Weymouth,she rents the first house she bought on a month to month,didn't seem to have any problem getting a tenant.She doesn't like a regular yearly lease. Charlie...... ..... .... --70.215.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Sep 8, 2016 5:03 AM
Message:

Well NH follows Ireland's grazing laws. Had a retired cop SHOOT the neighbors cocker spaniel because it was "worrying" his rabbit in a cage.

Yup! Live free or die! --73.249.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Sep 9, 2016 12:42 PM
Message:

this is why you should NOT make accommodations to folks that have not been good tenants for a while. strict leases let you be nice to the good guys and pound the bums into dust. good tenants get a day or two to be late, good tenants get treated like they treat you.

less than a month and they're already tormenting you? good god, they have some big nards on them it's your house. deliver their 30 day notice after they pay rent next. this tenant will not improve.

also, an imaginary boundary is not a boundary...you need to learn about liability control...you have plenty of exposure here

--76.176.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Sep 9, 2016 2:59 PM
Message:

Rachel, like the man from New Hampshire said,there could be a law that crosses the borders,Old English Laws,who knows,you might be lucky.might have to brush up on your shooting skills with the double barrel.I have one.Bought it from a guy for $10 away back.In New Haven they frown on firing within city limits. Charlie...... ..... .... --70.215.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Oct 30, 2016 1:03 PM
Message:

Unfortunately I am back. After our first altercation, the tenants wife texted me and was very apologetic about the whole ordeal and said there was a huge misunderstanding. She said she loves the house and the property and will do anything to stay there. I am a moron apparently because I decided to let things lie for a while. Yesterday things came to a head again. Once more I found the dog running loose in one of my horse paddocks and completely out of view of the owner. I brought the dog back to tenant and told him the dog had to be in the back yard or leashed and tenant told me no. He then told me I was trespassing and he was going to call the police. I began walking back to my own area and he followed me menacingly, yelling and calling me names. He shook his arm at me and was extremely belligerent. I have a call in to my lawyer who will hopefully get back to me next week. In the mean time I am looking for support that I might, even in tenant friendly Massachusetts, have a case. Tenant is in clear violation of at least three points of the pet addendum and therefore in violation of the lease. What do I send the tenant in the way of a letter to get rid of dog or face eviction? Or is it wiser to wait until I speak with my lawyer? Thank you all for your patience. --73.149.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Oct 30, 2016 4:40 PM
Message:

WoW....there was no benefit for your patience. It is my most sincere suggestion that you put this ASAP in the hands of the best LL/ T you can get. --70.208.xx.xx




Tenant pushing limits (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 5:14 AM
Message:

You already have a call into your lawyer, so probably best to let them handle this one because it sounds like your first. Take a deep breath and relax, you are doing just fine.... even in our tenant friendly state you will prevail. Very few LLs allow dogs in this state and I'm sure your tenants know that. They don't want to have to leave, they already told you that. Your lawyer will be sending the sheriff to their door with a Notice to Quit. That usually straightens them right out because they know you are serious. The worst thing you can do is ignore it because then you are allowing it and if it is a problem later then a judge won't care because you allowed the behavior. Avoid confrontation with the tenant, let him argue with the sheriff. Regarding the month to month, every tenant I have is on a MTM. If they insist on a longer term then I deny their application. Those are the ones who need the protection because they know the system already, only exception is applicants on voucher programs that require a year lease. --71.10.xxx.x




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 5:24 AM
Message:

They aren't on a month to month :-( they're on a year lease through August. Does that matter? They also have kids. Thank you for your answer! --73.149.xxx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 7:00 AM
Message:

Well you hireda Lawyer so document all text and date conversations and prepare your case. That's a better use of your time. Relax. You are on the right path now. The man could be bipolar. Stay away from him. Mind your own business --66.87.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 10:06 AM
Message:

Since they are violating terms of their rental agreement, it does not matter whether it's MTM or a term lease. You have tried the friendly approach without much success. Now is the time to lawyer up & get serious. I presume that your lawyer after reading the rental agreement will have your tenant served with a notice listing all of the lease violations & the time frame for them to cure.

As far as the tenant having children, I don't understand why you even bothered to mention it as it has no bearing on the issues you have mentioned.

You might also ask your lawyer about getting a protective / restraining order against the individual who threaten you. --72.93.xxx.x




Tenant pushing limits (by Rachel [MA]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 10:11 AM
Message:

I only mentioned the children because I know it's more difficult to evict during the cold months if children are involved. Thank you all for the replies. Still waiting on the lawyer to call me back but I have been in touch with my regular lawyer who is advising me. --108.20.xx.xxx




Tenant pushing limits (by Blue [IL]) Posted on: Oct 31, 2016 9:22 PM
Message:

Here, children and winter have nothing to do with it. --75.132.xxx.xx





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