City Forced Inspections
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City Forced Inspections (by Harold [TX]) May 12, 2015 1:30 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) May 12, 2015 2:13 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) May 12, 2015 2:13 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Barbara [VA]) May 12, 2015 3:31 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by frank [KS]) May 12, 2015 3:54 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by S i d [MO]) May 12, 2015 4:06 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Vee [OH]) May 12, 2015 4:20 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by David [MI]) May 12, 2015 4:37 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Dan [MA]) May 12, 2015 4:48 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Nicole [PA]) May 12, 2015 4:52 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by TIM [IN]) May 12, 2015 4:57 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by David [MI]) May 12, 2015 5:07 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by RentsDue [MA]) May 12, 2015 5:55 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Smokowna [MD]) May 12, 2015 6:22 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) May 12, 2015 7:14 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by S i d [MO]) May 12, 2015 7:48 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by CTLL [CT]) May 12, 2015 9:20 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Patrick [IL]) May 12, 2015 10:11 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Chris [CT]) May 12, 2015 11:47 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Emily [TX]) May 12, 2015 1:36 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Mike45 [NV]) May 12, 2015 2:22 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Nicole [PA]) May 12, 2015 3:54 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Homer [TX]) May 12, 2015 4:25 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by john [NY]) May 12, 2015 7:43 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Robert J [CA]) May 12, 2015 9:29 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) May 13, 2015 1:42 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Emily [TX]) May 13, 2015 9:45 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by Vee [OH]) May 13, 2015 1:45 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Mike45 [NV]) May 13, 2015 7:01 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) May 13, 2015 11:45 PM
       City Forced Inspections (by Harold [TX]) May 14, 2015 3:46 AM
       City Forced Inspections (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) May 14, 2015 1:13 PM


City Forced Inspections (by Harold [TX]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 1:30 AM
Message:

State Specific Question About: TEXAS (TX)

City of Lancaster, TX has come up with new law demanding to inspect rental homes at $55.00 per year plus each time a tenant changes. It seems like invasion of privacy, that government came just come into someone's home anytime they want while making us pay for the joy of them snooping around without needing a warrant. I know it's a way for city to grab some cash from landlords, but this seems over the top. And if you don't go along with city on this they will cut off utilities.

Anyone else dealing with strong arm government like this have any ideas?

Thanks --216.138.xx.x




City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 2:13 AM
Message:

I think you'd better get a lawsuit started. The yearly inspection sounds unconstitutional to me - but it's going to cost millions to fight it.

Many city councils are pretty stupid. --24.121.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 2:13 AM
Message:

I think you'd better get a lawsuit started. The yearly inspection sounds unconstitutional to me - but it's going to cost millions to fight it.

Many city councils are pretty stupid. --24.121.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Barbara [VA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 3:31 AM
Message:

I consider myself lucky. My city currently only inspects housing in "special" areas. Mine are in such a lovely place. However it is only $50 and the inspection is good for 4 years.

The cost and length of time is fine with me. I actually had an inspection done right before a tenant moved in. The tenant ended up being a PITA who immediately called code and complained about habitability issues. The inspector knew my property was up to code, clean and habitable as he inspected it a week earlier.

So, that $50 gave me a great allie and great legal documentation proving the tenant was just being a jerk.

--72.218.xx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by frank [KS]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 3:54 AM
Message:

I thought Texas was the last state that this would happen.

Manhattan Kansas, home of Kansas State University, passed a similar ordinance about 7-8 years ago.

The next city election, several of these socialists were voted out. The new commissioners got rid of this costly ordinance. --72.205.xxx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:06 AM
Message:

Send every one of your tenants a copy of this letter:

Dear Tenant,

I hope you are doing well and enjoying your home. The City of Lancaster has recently decided to add a yearly inspection to all rental properties. Land lords are required to pay for the cost of this inspection, and unfortunately we must now pass this cost onto you. You rent for this next year will be increasing by (fill in the $$$ amt) to help pay for the City's inspector. If you have any questions or comments about this new fee that has caused your rent to increase, here are the numbers of City Council member and the mayor's office. Be sure to let your elected leaders know how much you appreciate their efforts.

Bob Jones 555-555-5555

Mayor Jill Hernandez 555-123-4567

etc.

Also, the next council meeting is on May 21st at 7 PM in the old courthouse. Be sure to come on down and tell them what you think about this.

Sincerely,

Your Thoughtful Land Lord, Harold

Btw, Harold, if you belong to a land lord association, make copies of this letter and ask other LLs to send out to their tenant. Nothing like 500 PO'd tenants calling people and/or showing up at a meeting to get an ordinance changed or revoked. Politicians know who butters their bread.... --173.16.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:20 AM
Message:

I think Harold should have been in council when these discussions were taking place before this ruling was voted on 3 times. --75.94.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:37 AM
Message:

I like theseinspectionns because it keeps the slumlords out and makes sure the landlords arent cutting corners. --172.56.xx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Dan [MA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:48 AM
Message:

I'm going to disagree with David. Although the intention is to probably keep landlords from cutting corners and crack down on slumlords I haven't seen that in practice. I've operated in several cities where such inspections are required and it starts out thorough and after a couple years it turns into a formality and nothing more than a fee to pay. The inspectors want nothing more than to fill out the form and collect the check and move on to the next inspection. They spend 60 seconds glancing through a 3 bedroom apartment and on some occasions I've had them not even go inside. --64.197.xx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:52 AM
Message:

I own investment properties in two different municipalities. One of them has had codes enforcement for at least 30 years - $75 a year, per unit plus $75 additional the year of inspection. the other is close to 10 years - I pay $145 a year per unit.

inspections on both are every other year. --72.70.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by TIM [IN]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:57 AM
Message:

David- good in theory, that is it. My city went from inspections every 4+ years. They use to walk in, check the water was on and a smoke detector was working. Now, it is every 3 yrs like clock work and has 200 point check list. They will look at some of the most obscure building code violations but over look something you and I would see wrong.

Slumlords, still going. Spent more time in court now. The inspections are more like punishment for the good landlords. Basically, the fees are charged just keep the building dept afloat. Luckily, the state of IN prohibits the rental inspections fees from going into the general fund for the city. --67.236.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by David [MI]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 5:07 AM
Message:

It's all in the implementation. Here they have a two page checklist of interior and exterior, plus furnace inspection by licensed mechanical contractor.

--165.207.x.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by RentsDue [MA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 5:55 AM
Message:

So....if you get the inspection every year and at every turnover, that means that when a tenant calls Code Enforcement with a complaint you are in the clear? If the inspection shows that you were up to code before tenant moved on , can't you charge the tenant for the violations that occured after they moved in and caused? In my city the Code Enforcement Officer will go after the tenant for repairs if we get an inspection before they move in. --166.137.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 6:22 AM
Message:

A few point to clarify.

When a city provides an inspection, and a license to operate the rental, that does not give you a leg to stand on. Simply put the inspectors are not accredited and have no powers aside from code enforcement.

You will not be able to show that your home was in compliance simply because you had the license. In court the city will be the first to bow out of any responsibility for accidents or the condition of the home.

Suing the city is a waste. You will be organizing a group of landlords to pool their money so one happy lawyer will string you along for years. That lawyer knows that the taxpayers are funding a lesser skilled lawyer who really could care less if the case drags on or not. You in essence will be using your money to attack your money. I follow as many of these types of lawsuits as I can spot and I know of only one city that canceled their inspections due to a suit. That was years ago and I doubt they would do the same today.

That fee of $50 or $55, can easily be increased with every passing year. At the Conference of Mayors these subjects are batted around and widely accepted. Small towns are immune because the neighbors know the town managers. If you are in a town of any size, this is more the upcoming trend.

The inspections are a big burden to the landlord. The turnover costs are greatly increased mostly due to painting and repairs being done out of a logical sequence. An example of this is having the same inspector visit each year and bringing the home into compliance. Then a new inspector is introduced and that person's interpretation of the laws widely differ.

Of coarse, with each passing year there are new ordinances adopted. Smoke detectors in the hall outside of bedrooms, then smoke detectors being required in each bedroom, then ten year smoke detector batteries being required in all smoke detectors. That of coarse is an easy fix. But you will be caught off guard when your inspector says that the bushes against the house are now too tall and should be trimmed back for fireman, safety of female tenants, and I can't remember the other reason.

You will be scrambling to be in compliance at all costs or your rental will not be licensed. Try advertising an unlicensed rental.

The best practice is to anticipate as much as you can and group your inspections together. Not too many at one time. But this way the repair lists can be merged and the work can be done efficiently.

Anticipate the ever rising fees and add them into your budget.

A footnote. I have shacks in towns where there is no inspection mandated. Those shacks enjoy better quality upgrades. Ironically you would think the opposite would be true, but where I am allowed to work on my projects as I see fit I provide a nicer residence. Where there is a constant looming inspection, I am forced to do just the bare minimum first, then my improvements with what funds remain. A typical inspection runs around $700 between lead testing and city fees. I don't count in the painting costs because we constantly are painting.

--173.66.xx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 7:14 AM
Message:

Often many rental housing providers sit on the side lines when governments pass bad legislation. What is going to happen the city will start to increase the price of inspection fees. It is important to belong to a landlords association where as a group fight bad legislation. Most rental housing providers keep rental units in a reasonable condition where the rental units conform to all the building and fire codes. Here across the road and down the road there are many illegal ramshackle apartments in houses which are basically fire traps. They don't want enforce the building and fire codes as they say this is affordable housing. They have rent control in Ontario where the builders are no longer building rental buildings. One has to go to the original punitive legislation why the buildings are not building a lot of rental units. --74.220.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 7:48 AM
Message:

Btw, Springfield started doing these city licensing things about 10 years ago. It's a joke: you pay a $10 fee plus $1 per unit. So a duplex is $12.

Bought my first duplex in 2007. Inspector dropped by. Nice lady. Checked that we had smoke detectors in kitchen and near every bedroom door. That was the last time anyone stopped by that particular property: 8 years ago. Every year, I send the City another $12 check to cover my "license". Honestly, the cost is so minimal I don't have time to fool with it. I'd pay them an extra $10 a year if they just would quit sending me the stupid paperwork that is the SAME THING every year. I've started writing "same as last year" on all of them. They are accepted and my license is renewed. (grins)

Oh, and here's the funny part: it only applies to multi-family properties with 2 - 19 units. SFH's and apartment complexes of 20+ units are exempt. Some of the worst slum lords in our town own 100+ SFH's.

Like I said, it's a joke, but not expensive enough for me to mess with.

--173.16.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by CTLL [CT]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 9:20 AM
Message:

Bottom line is that the only reason for the inspection fees is to get more money from the taxpayer for gov nments that need more money for their raises, pensions and all the gravy train stuff that we allow them to get as our elected officials. Sadly, they do not represent us. Where is our gov ment - for the people and by the people. --68.9.xxx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by Patrick [IL]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 10:11 AM
Message:

Years ago, I considered buying a multifamily building in a near suburb of Chicago. Once I learned that they had inspection every 3 years, I dodged. It wasn't that I tried to save the small $100 inspection fee. It's just another unnecessary headache that I didn't need; repair list (like Section8) yuck.

Sid's idea for passing the cost to tenants is very good. There will always be more tenants than LL. If the mass pisses enough, the officials would feel the pressure greater. --50.249.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 11:47 AM
Message:

Do what my marina does every year when the dock age contracts come up.

They send out an email to everyone talking about the new season and whats going on. Oh and by the way due to increased costs, insurance, and local taxes everyone's dock age rate is going up X% this year.

Just pass the cost on.

In the mean time find out who passed the regulation and try to fight it. --67.82.xxx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by Emily [TX]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 1:36 PM
Message:

This is an issue in Hurst, TX as well. We just sold our rental there, in part because we were tired of dealing with the nonsense. Could never figure out a way to fight it, probably because there isn't one.

At least there they don't charge the LL, but what a waste of city money! I should have added an "inspection fee" or some such to the rent anyway just on principle and to cover my time wasted dealing with it.

Hurst requires your property to be "registered" annually and have an inspection in between tenants. They know when tenants change because of requests to change utilities - we considered paying all bills just to outwit them at that game, but that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As part of the annual registration, they asked us to complete a form giving detailed information on tenants including DL#, etc. I always said "available upon request." If they want personal information on my tenants, they can ask the tenant directly. --10.193.xx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 2:22 PM
Message:

Sid, your letter should also inform the tenant that the tenant has no obligation to allow the city inspector in:

Please be aware of the fact that the City Inspector has no legal authority to compel you to cooperate in any way with these inspections. You do NOT have to allow the City Inspector inside your home without a search warrant issued by a judge or magistrate upon a showing of probably cause that a crime has been committed. You may allow these inspections if you wish, but you have a right to be free from these government inspections.

Please note, if the City Inspector sees anything illegal or questionable, he is required to make a full report to the police authorities.

--67.239.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 3:54 PM
Message:

Mike45 - that won't fly at least where I live. If the inspector doesn't go inside, they won't issue your housing license and you can't rent your property out - multi and sfhouses. --72.70.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Homer [TX]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 4:25 PM
Message:

They are doing inspections in one of my city's now. Watauga Tx. I won't buy another house there, and if i ever sell a house, it will be in watauga. 55 per year and is a pita. --173.74.x.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by john [NY]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 7:43 PM
Message:

We had a rental registry in my city for 1 and two family homes, with fees of $75 per unit. Someone sued, and the court declared the interior inspection, and the law unconstitutional. Thereafter the city council passed another rental registry, but they only inspect the exterior of the house. For 3 family and up they claim its valid to inspect the interior. I believe the other poster is correct, if the tenant will not allow them to inspect the interior, the code enforcement can't do anything but whine. I had that and they withheld a rental permit, and i rented the unit anyway. --74.106.xx.x




City Forced Inspections (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: May 12, 2015 9:29 PM
Message:

Los Angeles implemented such and inspection process charging us a fee that was really a "Tax". The City plays games by sending notices via a third party to previous owners and then ends up doing surprise inspections. The clock starts to run and the fees, fines and cost go sky high. A few bucks for annual fees turns into thousands of dollars wasted playing their games.... --173.55.xxx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by LiveTheDream [AZ]) Posted on: May 13, 2015 1:42 AM
Message:

Again I would say WHY are you and your tenants submitting to this clear violation of the Bill of Rights 4th Ammendment?

I think you can imagine how that would turn out in the Free state of AZ. People better start standing up for their rights! And this IS a right, no matter how many idiot city govts infringe on it. --24.121.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Emily [TX]) Posted on: May 13, 2015 9:45 AM
Message:

LiveTheDream, I would say because fighting it is too costly in terms of both time and money. My husband actually made some noise about suing the city. But that would have cost us a fortune and what would we have gained? Instead we just sold the house.

I agree with you in principle, but as I get older I also get more pragmatic. Sometimes it's just not worth it. --10.193.xx.xx




City Forced Inspections (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: May 13, 2015 1:45 PM
Message:

I looked this up in my big city, the metro housing office wants this but the city explicitly shows this is only required when a repair in excess of 15k is done, so I send this letter to metro housing giving them the approval to pay me for the repair and I will pay the fee - another guvmt wheel turning saga... --75.94.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: May 13, 2015 7:01 PM
Message:

The U.S. Supreme Court decision on this issue is Camara vs. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523 (1967).

The Supremes agreed that a warrant is usually required if the tenant refuses admission: “it seems likely that warrants should normally be sought only after entry is refused unless there has been a citizen complaint or there is other satisfactory reason for securing immediate entry."

But the Supremes approved the concept of administrative warrants, issued on a far lesser showing than a criminal search warrant. "Probable cause upon the basis of which warrants are to be issued for area code enforcement inspections is not dependent on the inspector's belief that a particular dwelling violates the code, but on the reasonableness of the enforcement agency's appraisal of conditions in the area as a whole." This is such a blatant abuse by the Supreme Court!

--67.239.xxx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: May 13, 2015 11:45 PM
Message:

Camel's nose.

(ancient Arab fable about the camel who says "It's cold out here. Can I just warm my nose inside your tent?" Then his head, and soon you are living with the camel.)

Owner occupants LOVE the idea of rental inspections.

Renters LOVE the idea believing they will get better housing.

But experienced LLs know what happens when govt inspects - just look at Sec8!

-BRAD

--68.50.xx.xxx




City Forced Inspections (by Harold [TX]) Posted on: May 14, 2015 3:46 AM
Message:

Thanks for so many great comments. It all sounds pretty grim. Lancaster,TX city says that will not allow water utilities to be turned on until landlord goes along with their scheme.

I think they want to kind of round up all the renters and landlords to drive them out of town. Or move them to certain area where they can watch them. Kind of like a camp or caged in area. If the city could then put a mark on and fingerprint everyone it would be easier to keep watch over them. --108.250.xxx.x




City Forced Inspections (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: May 14, 2015 1:13 PM
Message:

Nick Sidoti had a great rebuttle years ago: Discrimination under Fair Housing Law. If you demand to inspect one, you must inspect them all. No one singled out.

Start with the mayor's house and we'll all tag along.

-BRAD --68.50.xx.xxx





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