A lot of talk here of drawing a line in the sand with tenants. I did just that on a nice couple that got behind. Yeah they pay a 100 here 300 here but since move in they are 2500 behind.

A friend told them they saw their name in the court news. I received a phone call real quick. They could not believe I was wanting MY money.

I told them the investors (wink) could not go any longer with that much money out. Tenant couple STILL could not believe they are being taking to court. They were embarrassed. GOOD. Pay your bills.

We can still be friends, but the investors cannot allow folks to get that far behind. Can you borrow the money from a family member?

It has been nice that they have paid the utility bills since last February. Saved Pookie and me some money.

We will find out if they pay and stay or quit and evict. If they leave, I have folks on a waiting list and want it rented before the cold winter blows.

Brad02k is dead on. Draw the line.

Landlord up!

i have been excused of being to nice. Just off of amazon, big landlord pants are ordered.

Thanks Lee for making this post which saves me the time of posting it myself.

My post would have been titled "When to carry a tenant and when not too"?

Apparently you have carried a tenant till they racked up $2,500 in unpaid rent,...I could never do that. You must have a heart of gold.

I do have 2.5 year tenants right now that have not paid rent for July and their financial situation looks bleak. Should I carry them and hope for better months ahead or just file for eviction and put women and small children on the street?

Roy,

"Should I carry them and hope for better months ahead or just file for eviction and put women and small children on the street?"

You know the answer, Roy, but let's unpack what's going on here.

#1 - If they cannot pay their bills, that is not your fault. You are not putting a woman and her children on the street. She has failed to take action to ensure that the four walls of her financial situation are properly in order. Would you also accuse the grocery store of "starving a woman and her children" because they won't let her walk out the door with free groceries? Same logic.

#2 - Any continuation of this scenario is denying reality. That seldom helps anyone, you or her. Her situation isn't going to magically improve overnight without action from her. Is she working extra jobs, selling stuff on Craigslist, asking family and friends for a gift of mercy, applying at local aid organizations / charities, canceling the cable TV and the cell phone, getting rid of all the rent-a-center crap sucking her paychecks dry, returning her "buy here, pay here" car and taking the bus or carpooling? In short, what is SHE doing to fix HER situation? Or is she in default mode thinking "Roy will never evict me...my life sucks and it's all the rich land lord's fault." What is her attitude: "Can do" or "won't do"?

It's not a hard-line in the sand: it's just sticking with the lease.

Sid,

Yes, lets unpack the facts here.

This tenant (60 year grandmother, her 40 yr. daughter and her 5 year daughter -3 generations of women that have been dumped by worthless men) has been with me for 2.5 years and as of June 30th, their rent was current. Now, does 30 months of late paid rent grant them any special favors from me or should I just dump them at the first sign of non-paid rent?

Been there...

Never gets easier

best to do it early and fast, like pulling a band aid

Roy, the answer is again self-evident. But I'll give it one more shot...

Their financial meltdown is in no way caused by these medical bills. Those hospitals are NOT suing them or garnishing them today. So, where is the money going? I don't know and they probably won't tell you, but what I do know is that folks who do the following almost never have problems.

The four walls of finances are these:

FOOD gets paid first.

RENT gets paid second.

UTILITIES get paid third (this makes sense; silly to be paid up for a house that you're getting evicted from)

BASIC TRANSPORTATION gets paid fourth.

Everything else--credit cards, medical, etc--waits until another day. They will wait for payment and/or make plans to get them caught up over long-periods.

Clothing can last another 90 days. We have now covered the basic essentials of what people need to survive.

So basically, these hospital bills are not their problem. Their problem is they are not prioritizing what income they do have. That isn't change in 30 days if you let it ride. It MIGHT change if you insist that they get caught up with you. Or it might not change, but it definitely won't change unless you take action.

The fact that these women have shacked up with worthless men is irrelevant to the discussion. I know plenty of single women with kids who made them same mistake and then went on with life making the correct decisions to carry on vs. expecting their land lord to carry them.

It WAS their choice: let's not kid ourselves. Men do not become worthless over night. There were signs. They ignored the signs, tolerated the misbehavior, and thus are now reaping the harvest of a lifetime of bad decisions. Let's not make excuses here.

If they cannot pay, they need to do the right thing and MOVE OUT. That is a viable option that few deadbeats take. They prefer to sit and pick your pocket while heaping loads of guilt on the land lord.

You are not their provider, Roy. There should be no guilt with you taking whatever actions are needed to protect your income.

So what kinds of choices are these TWO adult women making today? Are they working? Are they cutting out unnecessary expenses / "lifestyle"? If I recall, your places average around $600 / month rent. A 60-year-old and 40 year old should be able to scratch up $600 in rent and still have enough for food, lights, water, and bus fare or carpool gas.

Roy three additional thoughts beyond what SID said.

1) Let's say you meet these people somewhere and became aware of their situation, would you give them $1000s out of your pocket to help them out? How does having a business relationship with them over the past 2.5 years create any obligation for "assistance".

2) Separate charity from business. Charity is not an obligation. Charity is a gift you don't expect to be paid back. Extending someone credit is not charity. Extending someone credit you know they can't pay back is not charity it's bad business. If you want to help them, forgive unpaid rent don't extend them more credit, it muddies the waters.

3) I don't buy the medical bills story. If you pay only $10 on a medical bill they won't come after you. Medical may mean lost work but two working people even at minimum wage should be able to pay $475 rent and cover a few days of lost work.

Lee,

Sure the tenants paid utilities (but not all of rent) but there are other tenants out that that would have paid Rent and utilities.

Okay Sid,

You have made your point and I know you are right. What I would like to know is how to get them to leave without a humiliating eviction which will cost me a min. of $300.00 in filing fees.

I have tried all methods including talking to the tenant, offering cash for keys, moving their stuff to storage for free, etc.

In the final analysis, I think the best approach is to have a system for evictions/terminations, and follow it. 3 day notice posted on 5th, eviction started on the 8th, on the street 4 weeks later. Etc. Or whatever timeline works in your area.

Otherwise, you spend 1-2 months working with them, but you are going nowhere fast.

While the court process is happening behind the scenes, you can attempt to talk them out, or offer cash for keys. But regardless, the court process is already started.

This is what I'd suggest.

Go Lee GO!

I need those pants somedays! What's the product number??

I'm now teaching to expect cleaning/repairs DOUBLE the rent owed, so just take the rent owed x 3.

Maybe the talk should be that we drew the line in the sand before we gave them the keys. I really prefer something like a line in the CONCRETE!

Roy, It's simple. No one, including me, makes the hard decisions until faced with an unmovable deadline.

"Mary, it's time. It's been 22 days. You must either pay or leave. No hard feelings. If you do not leave the company will file for eviction which will appear in the newspaper."

-Mary can get help from many different agencies. She will nto do this until the LL sets an unmovable deadline.

-Mary and company are probably not garnishable so wave goodbye to your money

-I must mention that doctors are getting firmer: pay up front, OR no more treatment until the past due bill is caught up. Ocare has really thrown a wrench into the machine.

Roy, I wasn't trying to beat you into submission, and I hope it didn't come across that way. I still owe you some Coors after all... ;-)

What to do? Start of with what needs to happen: they need to pay or leave. Stop by tonight or tomorrow and explain that in no uncertain terms you must have 50% of the money due in 72 hours or they must be moved out. They know right now whether or not they can pay you, so if they don't then by default they need to start packing boxes as soon as you leave the driveway. Tell them that if they fail to choose one of those two options and complete them within 72 hours, you will be filing eviction. This give them a chance to save their dignity and avoid the humiliation of being evicted.

You cannot "save" them the humiliation any more than you can save them from the life decisions that have put them in this place. Humiliation is a loss of dignity, and dignity is--by definition--earned and lost only by the action or inaction of the person.

I can't give you dignity, nor can you give me any. Neither of us can give or receive dignity from our tenants. Dignity is an act of the will. Do I choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing, regardless of the circumstances? Most situations are black and white: the world is not as gray as many would have us believe. Is it right to steal from your land lord? The answer is No. Eviction is just a recognition of another poor choice--or in many cases--the refusal to make any choice.

How to save money? Tell them if they comply with your ultimatum and move out within 72 hours and leave the place "broom clean", you will give them $200. I saved you $100. They get $200 which might help them salvage some dignity by making the correct choice, even if Charity was involved. At least they can move into a long-term stay hotel for a week or so until they can plan their next move, or look to a local charitable organization to help them.

Explain to them you'd rather pay them $200 to leave than pay the court and attorney $300 to force them to leave. Their choice, but again if they FAIL to choose you must act. At that point, they've sold their dignity to laziness.

Sid,

No harm done,...you have not beaten me into submission just yet. My bruises will heal,...LOL.

Due the 2.5 years this tenant has been with me, I have decided to give them an ultimatum. In a written letter (yes, I still write business letters which is my speciality) and I have given them until July 31st to pay $300.00 in reduced July rent OR vacate by July 31st.

If they do neither, I will file for eviction first thing on August 1st.

"We can still be friends, but the investors cannot allow folks to get that far behind. Can you borrow the money from a family member"?

I disagree with Suzanne in states like mine where eviction takes 3 months and costs me $600 cash for keys is always cheaper.

I only get 12 billable months per unit, so why waste 3 when I can salvage them.

Lee said the the exact right thing. This situation is about the LEASE, not who owns what. "My investors" includes Pookie, his children who will inherit this property, and the bank who backed him with the money. The bank who trusted the LL would NOT approve of allowing residents to not pay their rent.

I teach to NEVER tell them you are the owner.

-It makes the demand for payment PERSONAL, not BUSINESS. From "I need to pay my rent" to "Brad is taking *MY* money!"

-They think LLs are rich and "You're rich, what do you care!?" Our city council president barked that at me in a large public hearing.

-Managers get complaints or frustration, but owners get shot. Google just gave me 12,700,00 links in .52 seconds. The headlines never read "Professional Property Manager shot". It's usually 'Tenant Shoots Landlord'. In June in Louisville the LL was killed over a $58 utility bill.

Great ideas and comments from everyone.

Even when showing homes, folks ask about upgrades or this or that. I will have to ask the investor group. Done. The applicant is satisfied with that response.

Gotta think about Pookie, Pebbles, and Bam Bam's safety.

The ELT fee, MY judge has allowed it every time. Never had a tenant question it in court. They know when they signed up.

Suzanne, you must live in a much nicer place than me. My blue collar tenants lose jobs, go through divorces, go to jail etc. The last thing I want is some recently evicted tenant's drunk boyfriend knowing that I am the owner and coming to find me. So I have never been the owner.