I've been doing rentals for 15 years. Started with one MH and have just always turned the profits into the next unit.

We live on the day job money. I've had that job for 25 years.

Some comparisons:

Day job retirement will be roughly 1/3 of my current RE income. And I've been at the day job much longer...

But... the day job has provided health care and steady pay while we built the RE empire.

One more unit, plus 2 less mortgages (close on both) and bub-bye day job.

Gevans, don't we all wish we'd started earlier! If I'd started maxing out my ROTH IRA starting at age 22, I'd be a lot further down the path than I am today.

In the back of my mind is that day I plan to leave the day job and plunge full time into real estate. It's one reason why I'm trying to get debt free as fast as possible. I am confident that once I have all my energy and time to focus on ONE method of earning a living I will make greater progress than by being distracted with several. Some would say I should take all this money I'm using to pay off debt to buy more rentals...leverage to the hilt...make money of OPM. Nah! I'm already going crazy keeping up with what I've got. Adding more = less focus on what I've already got.

Once I retire from the day job, my plan is to continue growing the Empire via flips and keeping a few now and then, like Brad 20K advises. All cash, of course, since no bank will lend money to a guy who doesn't have a job (but will be worth several million $$$). Heh, funny, isn't it?

Anyway, I'm thinking along your lines. But part of growing up is learning what niche(s) you fit in. You and I might not have made such good LLs if we'd have started 5, 10, or 20 years earlier. Might not have had the patience, the persistence, the tenacity to see thru the tough times. I believe God puts us in the places he wants us at the TIMES he wants us to be there. If you'll allow me a little speculation, I also think that's one reason why debt is not part of his plan for our lives. He says, "Trust me to provide for you." I personally (not putting any guilt on anyone who does otherwise), see debt as tell God..."Well, I sort of trust you to bless me, but even though I cannot afford items X, Y, and Z today I'm going to take a mortgage out on my future to get what I want sooner."

Eh, could be wrong. If the keyboard shocks me to death...we'll know the answer. That last paragraph will probably bring out shouts of "Hypocrite!" from those who know I still carry debt on my personal residence and rentals. Oh well, some folks have nothing better to do than throw stones. I've got nothing against them. I just keep praying that God will increase my trust in him and help me get out of this mess I made more quickly each day. Definitely not going to go DEEPER into the mess; THAT would cause me to see myself as a hypocrite.

Got rid of the day job last February. Sold one of the rentals yesterday. Thirteen more to go. I have Freedom as my goal!

Just a couple years behind Gevans. Right now RE has returned about 5X what the 401K has. RE has been good to us. Day job is not bad either but it's winding down and now looking for RE to step in and support the family. Rentals won't do it so I'm working Real Estate. We are close but if we'd had another 3-4 years it could have been much easier with a couple of properties paid for.

Our RE market is white hot so finding deals like SIDs (I'll call it wholetailing) is a bit difficult. I have been trying too. Just keep chugging along but haven't been able to make anything happen yet.

I envy people with Day Jobs and I will use my own two brothers as an example. They work for Fortune 500 companies, make over $150K, 401K's, stock options, expense accounts, health insurance, paid vacations, and each year get a new company car. Did I leave anything out?

Nice discussion here. Roy, your brothers seem to be doing good. Another benefit of working for corporation is comradeship as cjo'h mentioned. Also you don't have to worry about anything while on vacation... I'm still working for a corporation and managing rentals at the same time. Frankly I enjoy my full time job more than LL work. However I know that my job would not allow me to retire early (my ultimate goal). So I bite the bullet and become a LL on the side.

Honestly I don't know how boring would it be if one day I become a full time LL. The work is not as challenging as what I do in the corporate world. However I guess that full time LL would gain a lot of free time to do anything they want. Sweet! Well, I bought my first few properties at the high during 2005. Lots of expenses have gone up while rent stagnant (most of tenants earn a few bucks above minimum wage). I wonder how other LL who bought at the high like me cope with this problem.

RE: corporate jobs vacations

I find that I work twice as hard before vacation, give my projects over to people that don't know what they're doing, come back and have to work twice as hard to catch up on the project. And while I'm on vacation, I worry that they are screwing up.

Dave T, I agree completely

The corporate world is structured so that you can give 110 percent, and you still get shafted. It is an unfair system that is mostly based on office politics vs making a real contribution. The landlord world erases this almost completely allowing you to focus your efforts on work with useful and predictable outcomes. This is the key difference in my opinion.

I've spent 23 years in the corporate world and the last 18 months as a full time landlord. My last 2 years in corporate America were spent managing a department of 65 employees and being accountable to approximately 20 clients. I was putting in between 50 - 60 hours a week and felt like I was "rotting" behind a desk. Also, overnight trips to make client meetings also meant more time away from the family.

I grew up around real estate as my dad was a LL for the last 30+ years of his life. I always thought we would someday work together as I transitioned into RE full time. Unfortunately, we never did get the opportunity to work together as he passed away. I did leave corporate America behind and stepped in to help keep my Dad's rental business going. I don't have any regrets but do miss some of the close relationships I developed with co-workers over the years.

I have done a lot of projects over the last 18 months but still have about another 12 months to get the properties back to the standard they would have been if my dad's health did not fail.

By nature, I'm a people person so sometimes it feels like I replaced the 65 employee headaches with 100 Tenant headaches. However, it is nice waking up in the morning and being my own boss. My motto each day is to make a property "better than it was." I'm getting there slowly but surely and hope to be making my day proud as he looks down from a better place!

Gevans,

You are just about 3 years ahead of me. If all goes well, my mark is when I'm making more from rentals than from day job which should be when I get the last 3 morgages paid off. I'm not one who can stand not to be busy, but the older I get the more slowing down a little sounds good.

Too many of us landlords that start out early in life then up our day jobs and retire in our late 40's or early 50's due to rental income. I began at 18 and retired at 48.

Many of my friends that continued their careers and kept making great income that aided them in getting financing towards more purchases, went on to double their empire in the next 10 years.

I've sort of gone the other way. From flipping to rentals, then sold most of them and started a new business. I'm having fun with the business but it will never come close to real estate.

IF, I can ever find the next flip I'll start that cycle again. But deals on mid to high props are few and I refuse to return to Cali until the social ists are deposed, so I anticipate living in exile permently.

Meanwhile I'm trying to enjoy the few thousand days I have left.

gevans,

Good post! I'll offer this as encouragement to you.

I've now NOT worked longer than I DID work!

There is a sweetness to FREEDOM!!! that cannot be described by mere words.

Remember the last day of grade school, you walked out the door, and the whole summer (which was like FOREVER!) was in front of you!

No Sunday night ache as you worry about the week ahead.

Wake up when your eyes open.

Lay in bed and cuddle until the dogs run in.

Take the dog for a walk at 2:46 because it's a nice day.

Ask Wifey "where do you want to eat lunch today?"

Or Wifey says "Mind if I leave on Tuesday to see my Mom for a few days?"

Your friends still talk the same old talk about "the company did this" or "the boss did that" or "I got a 24 cent raise" and you really don't care. So glad to be out of that constant turmoil.

Feel genuine sorrow for those still at work because you KNOW what they are missing. And they can be cut at any moment.

Shop for cars and actually be able to pay cash for anything on the lot, even the really nice ones!

Keep your DREAM alive and in front of you at all times!! Stay focused! It's worth it!

I look forward to standing on my chair and yelling I'M FREE!!! with you!

-Brad

Side note to those worried about health insurance:

-they can cut it at anytime

-you ARE paying for it now. You produce income for the company wchich they use for your ins and your paycheck.

gevans: time to learn about Roth IRA real estate.

Everyone here speaks truth, but what concerns me is what the financial criminals have created and how it will all come tumbling down, sooner or later.

Hi Charlie (cjo), thanks for the encouraging words. I intend to hang on to what I have, but not really looking to buy more until things settle down (stop/slow down on rising expenses). Hopefully I could look back and laugh in the future as you said.

BRAD20K brought up many good points. I like this one most; Wake up when your eyes open! :-)

Rrent, what you wrote was true; "I replaced the 65 employee headaches with 100 Tenant headaches". I wonder how many LL experience that. You can count me in. The more tenants I have, the more headache. Sigh.

Patrick, make a list of your 5 worst tenants. Pick the worst one, and give them a termination notice. The other 4, send letter demanding compliance. In a month or two, repeat. Soon, your life will be easier.

Gevans! Congratulations brother! Keep working toward that goal & keep your eyes on the prize! You will be there soon & will relish it!

As for the post.......cash flow is to me everything. I still work day job (when I have clients) which is most of the time although a little light right now.....

Cash flow from real estate helping keep food on my table right now while I am between gigs.

Sid banks will lend to you if you have cash flow....my banker doesn't care where the income comes from, just show him the money. I'm sure Brad has no issue should he decide to borrow money.

I always think about the parable of the ten talents. The man who was most careful/took no risk was punished. Industrious people gain rewards with careful analysis and wise judgement where risk is concerned. I look for serious cashflow on any leveraged deal....I prefer to have a 2%+ rate of return versus purchase price every month. That is more than 25% annualuzed returns. The catch is that hot markets will never give this kind of return.

I like 25K houses that rent for $600 or 14K houses that rent for $375 after fix-up (real examples in my portfolio.) Those make the mistakes I made early less painful because they help support less lucrative deals.

The day gig is for accelerating pay down. I agree that faster pay down will mean faster freedom.

Good discussion. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I bowed out of the JOB for a few years with some health issues and just dealt with the real estate, but those regular paychecks are hard to give up. I went back to work part time and then eventually full time.

Now, as Brad describes, I've got that Sunday night ache in my gut every week as I dread going back to the commitments of the JOB on Mondays.

My wife and I attended the Lifeonaire conference this year and that was an eye opener as to how life is passing us by while we each spend 50-60 hours/week at a day job.

So we've made up our mind to get rid of the jobs by next year. I'm not 100% sure yet how I'm going to break out of the golden handcuffs, but I've set the goal and now I've got to figure out a plan to make it happen.

Some of my favorite quotes as of late:

"Most people are too busy making a living to make any real money" and "The most harmful addiction to living a full life is a weekly salary".