Min. Income Requirement
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Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Feb 11, 2014 10:57 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Deena [CA]) Feb 11, 2014 11:30 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Feb 11, 2014 11:33 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Kyle [IN]) Feb 11, 2014 11:43 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Feb 11, 2014 11:53 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Feb 11, 2014 11:55 AM
       Min. Income Requirement (by tryan [MA]) Feb 11, 2014 12:17 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Alan [CA]) Feb 11, 2014 12:23 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Feb 11, 2014 12:49 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by RW [VA]) Feb 11, 2014 1:26 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Rrents [PA]) Feb 11, 2014 4:18 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Feb 11, 2014 4:24 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Gary G [IN]) Feb 11, 2014 5:18 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by shawn sisco [MO]) Feb 11, 2014 5:33 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by MikeA [TX]) Feb 11, 2014 6:09 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Feb 11, 2014 7:10 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Ken [NY]) Feb 11, 2014 7:54 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Feb 11, 2014 7:56 PM
       Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Feb 12, 2014 6:26 AM


Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 10:57 AM
Message:

State Specific Question About: MISSOURI (MO)

My rental policies say "Each adult’s gross monthly income must equal no less than three times the monthly rent. Spousal income may be combined to meet this requirement."

In other words, each adult tenant must meet the minimum income requirement individually. If they are married, however, their incomes can be combined to meet this requirement.

I have done research to try and make sure this is not discriminatory. I don't want couples who are shaking up, or roommates, complaining that I discriminate against them.

Can anyone confirm this is not discriminatory? I'm so freaked out about discrimination laws that if there's any question, I will simply drop the second sentence about spouses being able to combine their incomes and simply require ALL adult tenants to meet the income requirement on their salary alone. But this means a married couple with a child where the wife stays home and only the husband words cannot rent my property.

Please advise if you know. Thanks. --144.191.xxx.x




Min. Income Requirement (by Deena [CA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 11:30 AM
Message:

Marital status is not a protected characteristic under federal fair housing laws. It is a protected characteristic in about half the states, but Missouri is not one of them. So while the income requirement that you describe would violate state fair housing law in CA, it appears to be legal in MO. --184.177.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 11:33 AM
Message:

Thanks - Yes, I knew it was illegal in CA. But I did not think it was illegal in MO.

Do you have a website that lists the separate state housing laws for each state? If you do, I'd be interested in knowing the address. Thanks. --144.191.xxx.x




Min. Income Requirement (by Kyle [IN]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 11:43 AM
Message:

I would say the "spousal income" would be considered discriminatory of familial status. I believe familial status was supposed to protect families with children, but it could possibly apply to unmarried couples.

You could rewrite your income requirements to require a total amount for all tenants, a minimum based on the number of tenants, or something like that which would allow you to approve a married couple with a stay at home parent without stating anything which could be construed as discriminatory. --68.46.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 11:53 AM
Message:

Is it discriminatory? Absolutely.

But discrimination is legal in many cases, of course. You're allowed to discriminate against people without any income, for example. If you have a non-smoking unit, you can discriminate against people that smoke.

The question is generally "are they a protected class?" Then discrimination becomes illegal. As Deena said, it looks like you are fine in your state. Federal laws do not prohibit discrimination based on marital status (with the possible exception of some public housing situations).

So, you likely don't even have to be tricky about it with the income requirement thing. From my understanding, you could just flat out say that you only accept couples if they are married, for example.

All that being said, I likely wouldn't do this myself and I think it is risky ground. It is a matter of time before the law likely changes on this. (Some argue that Missouri law actually already prohibits this, but just isn't being enforced properly.)

Also, when you have same-sex partners, you could run into an issue here. You could deny them because they are not married (or refuse to count both of their incomes as you do for spouses). I could easily see someone arguing that since they cannot get married, you are discriminating against them based on sexual preference, not marriage status, which IS prohibited discrimination!

So, whether or not it is worth it is your call to me. This is one of those situations where even though you COULD do it, I don't think that I WOULD do it. :)

- John...

P.S. I am not a lawyer nor expert in Missouri law. Your mileage may vary. Look both ways before crossing. Do not divide by zero.

--216.111.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 11:55 AM
Message:

Kyle: In SOME states, the federal "familial status" clause has been interpreted to include married/unmarried status -- but Missouri is not one of them.

- John...

--216.111.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 12:17 PM
Message:

INCOME is the one thing we CAN discriminate for.

BTW I'ld have 5 fold the vacancies I do if I tried the same rule. I look for 3x the rent coming into the house. --24.128.xxx.x




Min. Income Requirement (by Alan [CA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 12:23 PM
Message:

We set the minimum income requirement at 2-1/2 times the monthly rent for our applicants. --108.40.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 12:49 PM
Message:

All - thanks for your responses. I am happy to rent to unmarried couples, including those who are gay, or roommates.

FYI, my property is a condo. Per the condo's by-laws, I am not allowed to rent to more than 2 people unless all of them "are members of the same family". So I am prohibited from renting to an unmarried or gay couple with children, or any other two individuals who are unrelated and want a 3rd person to live with them.

That aside, I prefer to avoid situations where there are two adults, neither of whom could afford the place on their own, but together can afford it. I realize this will limit me in the number of applicants and qualified tenants I'll get. I'm OK with that.

My problem is this. If my rental policies say "all adults must meet minimum income requirement individually", what happens if a husband and wife with a baby come along and she stays home to care for the child while he works (and earns enough to meet the income requirement)?

Will they accuse me of discriminating against families if I won't rent to them because technically, they don't meet my qualifications (since she doesn't work and can't meet income requirement)? Seems like a catch-22 to me.

I'm just trying to abide by the law here and avoid any possible whiff of discrimination against anyone. Your thoughts are appreciated. --144.191.xxx.x




Min. Income Requirement (by RW [VA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 1:26 PM
Message:

It sounds like by the by-laws that the 2 people can be unrelated, just the 3rd cannot.

So unmarried couple with 2 children, the children are going to be related (by birth, guardianship, adoption, etc) to at least one of those adults. Bam. Family.

--198.178.xxx.x




Min. Income Requirement (by Rrents [PA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 4:18 PM
Message:

I consider both income sources when determining if Tenants can afford the unit. Also charge an additional "Occupant" Fee to cover additional WATER & SEWAGE charges when more than 1 individual TENANT is renting. This is sometimes hard to enforce as TENANTS frequently have guests and overnight visits. --72.95.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 4:24 PM
Message:

Personally, I think your HOA's clause is likely illegal.

Basically, if an unmarried couple WITHOUT children wants to move in, then they are acceptable. But if an unmarried couple WITH a child wants to move in, then your HOA would not allow it, correct?

I think that is clearly prohibited discrimination based on familial status. That is exactly what that "rule" does.

Either that -- or they get around it with by saying "family" -- but in THAT case, I would argue that almost ANYONE qualifies. Two unmarried people that live together with a child are a "family" to me. So they should be allowed.

So, if they define "family" explicitly and the unmarried+child would be disallowed, I would argue that the clause is illegal. If they don't define "family" that way, then almost anyone is a family and you don't have to worry about this.

I would go to an HOA meeting and say something along the lines of "I'm confused by this rule. Isn't saying that an unmarried couple without kids is fine but the same couple WITH a child is not fine a violating of federal law?" -- and see how quickly that gets amended. :)

- John...

--216.111.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by Gary G [IN]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 5:18 PM
Message:

I don't know, is my answer.

However, I have given thought to increasing the minimum income when there are more than 1 person with income. For example, If only 1 person has income, that person must not pay more than 33% if income towards rent, if 2 people have income, they must not pay more than 39% rent and if 3 people have income, they each must not pay more than 45% of their income towards rent. Or something like this..... I guess what I am thinking about is a sliding scale. I just haven't figured it out completely or checked to see if it is legal. What do you think? One time I rent a 4 bedroom to 2 couples. They all made close to minimum wage, but combined, they were a powerhouse financially, sort of... Bickering broke out and jobs were lost and rent went unpaid and I was left holding the bag. Eviction came in only 4 months. $4k damages went unpaid. --99.132.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by shawn sisco [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 5:33 PM
Message:

Why have a written policy? It seems to me that this can only be used against you and can not help. Your hands will be tied whenever you believe an exception should be made.

On the policy of 3X rent as a minimum, in my market (500-650 per month rents) a family who earns $1500-$1950 per month doesn't last very long, I usually pass unless I have several vacant. It seems that the $3300-$4200 per month earners work out a lot better in most cases. --64.251.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 6:09 PM
Message:

Slippery slope. What is considered a spouse? In many states after cohabitating for a period (3 months in Texas) you are considered married by common law and subject to all the rights granted.

I require a combined income of 3X rent. Just add all the income from those on the lease to see if they qualify. You can drive yourself crazy playing the whatif's on all the variations. KISS principle. --108.240.xxx.xx




Min. Income Requirement (by Sandy [MO]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 7:10 PM
Message:

Thanks again for your thoughts. John - your mentioning that the HOA's guidelines might be illegal has caused me to consider whether they just might be illegal. I will look into that. I assumed "members of the same family" meant "everybody has the same last name". But I should get clarification from the HOA and I may ask them exactly what you suggested asking.

Kyle - your recommendation is a great one and I will think about that. Not quite sure how I would word it. If you have suggestions, please share them.

RW - Ex: Jane Smith and John Jones move in with Jane's son, Bill. They are not a family, legally or otherwise. Right? Jane and John aren't married so they aren't related. Bill is not John's son or stepson, so they aren't related. The only people who are related are Jane and Bill. In this case, all 3 are not members of the same family and according to my HOA's bylaws, I can't rent to them. You're right, 2 people can be unrelated and live together. But 3 unrelated people can't live together. --68.184.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 7:54 PM
Message:

I think these laws were originally created in college towns where the idea was to not have 15 young guys crammed into a house in a neighborhood and turn the place into Animal House.I would tell the HOA to mind there own business as long as my tenants were not causing problems,they couldn't tell who is and is not related anyway,some couples get married and the woman keeps her name,who does the HOA think they are to be questioning what there marital status is? I would think just because the HOA makes a rule that may be considered illegal discrimination that does not allow you to illegally discriminate,kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.I think I will stick with my low income property. --24.92.xx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2014 7:56 PM
Message:

With rentals it is not worthwhile renting to people which will have to evict in a few months. Not only is the arrears of rent but a trashed out rental unit with considerable damage done to the rental unit. So if they don't enough funds to pay the rent the only outcome is a eviction in few months. --74.220.xxx.xxx




Min. Income Requirement (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 12, 2014 6:26 AM
Message:

Ken: I think you are exactly right. We actually have that for our duplex which is within the city limits of a college town. The licensing says that we can't have "more than two UNRELATED" people in the unit.

- John...

--216.111.xxx.xx





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