 Charging tenants water (by Will [NY]) Jan 14, 2014 10:04 PM
 Charging tenants water (by S i d [MO]) Jan 15, 2014 4:49 AM
Charging tenants water (by Pattyk [MO]) Jan 15, 2014 5:16 AM
Charging tenants water (by tryan [MA]) Jan 15, 2014 6:11 AM
Charging tenants water (by cj [PA]) Jan 15, 2014 6:46 AM
Charging tenants water (by Zelda [MO]) Jan 15, 2014 8:43 AM
Charging tenants water (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Jan 15, 2014 1:39 PM
Charging tenants water (by Keith [AL]) Jan 15, 2014 4:48 PM
Charging tenants water (by will [NY]) Jan 15, 2014 8:11 PM
Charging tenants water (by S i d [MO]) Jan 16, 2014 4:22 AM
Charging tenants water (by wolf [NY]) Jan 16, 2014 8:54 AM
Charging tenants water (by frank [NY]) Feb 3, 2014 3:04 PM
Charging tenants water (by Patti [OK]) Feb 4, 2014 7:00 AM
Charging tenants water (by Will [NY]) Posted on: Jan 14, 2014 10:04 PM
Message:
State Specific Question About: NEW YORK (NY)
Is it legal to charge tenants for water. As I understand it in single family properties it is simple cause the tenant is the only user. But I would like to do it in multi-units, and have a clause in the lease at first simply dividing up into shares like 1/4 of bill for 4 unit building tenant. But they complain that another tenant uses more water etc. So I made it a fixed quarterly charge of $50 per quarter. I find most tenants don't pay me anyway, and if they leave on good terms and are suppose to get the deposit back I deduct it from there. If it is challenged in court I am not sure what would happen. There might be something in the utility law about who can charge for water, Does anyone have an opinion on this? --74.78.xxx.xx |
Charging tenants water (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 4:49 AM
Message:
Will, let's get your issue straight first. You started your post asking "is it legal"...then switched gears in the last statement saying "what's your opinion."
Legal (law)...opinion (not law). Amateurs work on opinions; businessmen/women work on the law.
You need to know if it's legal first. What's legal in your town, county, state will be different from what's legal elsewhere. Also, you need to know what your judge will say before going to court. Ask your local attorney for these kinds of answer.
If I were your tenant, I'd be upset too paying 1/4 of the usage when I'm frugal and Mr. Hour Long Shower with his Two Hour Long Shower teenagers upstairs are constantly wasting water. The solution here is to sub-meter and bill based on actual usage, if it's legal.
You say they "don't pay you anyway"...why will sub-metering and back billing make them START paying? If you don't insist on being paid, they won't pay.
Closely related: "if they leave on good terms and are suppose to get the deposit back I deduct it from there". Eating up the deposit with unpaid bills is bad business practice. What if they trash your unit on the move-out? No money left to make repairs: it all went to water bills. Either bill them (if it's legal) and enforce it throughout the lease, or don't bill them.
There are a lot of issues to sort out here, some of which require the advice of a professional before proceeding. My opinion (for what it's worth) is to act like a professional businessperson, know the law, treat tenants fairly by only billing for what is used, and insist on payment of all money due or evict. --108.250.xxx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by Pattyk [MO]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 5:16 AM
Message:
if you can, charge them each month a flat rate and have them included it along with their rent. Rent $400, water $15, they should write you a check for $415... what SID wrote! --174.159.xxx.xx |
Charging tenants water (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 6:11 AM
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Just work the water into the rent for the multis ... tenants don't need to know what they're paying for. --24.128.xxx.x |
Charging tenants water (by cj [PA]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 6:46 AM
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I charge 50.00 per unit + 5.00 per person monthly. This is based on the average water bill. --174.49.xxx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by Zelda [MO]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 8:43 AM
Message:
I think SID has answered your question nicely. I have a different question for you:
When they don't pay, is there any reason you aren't applying the money paid to the utility bill first and then filing eviction for short rent? I don't see anything from my googling that would indicate you can't use a clause like this (money will be used for unpaid utilities, fees, etc FIRST, rent SECOND) in NY. Maybe a NY LL can chime in? --65.220.xx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by Robert,Ontario,Can [ON]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 1:39 PM
Message:
Here in the last ten years it costs more for cubic meter of water one uses. If it is single family home the tenant has some incentive to conserve if the cost of water goes up with more use. The friends will not be doing laundry or having long showers there. For multi-residential if each suite is metered then those who conserve should pay less. --74.220.xxx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by Keith [AL]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 4:48 PM
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Get on google and read up about sub metering. Even if you on metered the hot water you would get an idea of who I using the most. OR just up the rent and don't treat it as a seperate thing --166.205.xx.xx |
Charging tenants water (by will [NY]) Posted on: Jan 15, 2014 8:11 PM
Message:
Thanks for all the input. I rent in the inner city , in Syracuse, NY. I have 100 money judgements against former tenants who I evicted, yet I have never been able to collect on them cause NYS law requires them to earn more than 40 times the minimum wage, to even begin garnishments, or have more than $2500 in the bank, which they never do since they live pay check to pay check. Also the liberal judges would not allow me to apply rent payments to water, don't allow late fees often to make it easier for the tenant to stay. Also tenants just won't pay water, only rent cause that's the only thing you can kick them out for. not paying a late fee isn't rent either, so most judges might give you a judgement in small claims court, but won't evict for such violations. Once the tenant moves or is evicted they refuse to give you an address or their security deposit, which they know they aren't getting back since they got evicted for owing rent. Therefore I usually can't find them to sue them anyway even if I want to. These tenants have no credit, or bad credit and don't really care.
Getting back to water billing, I include it in the rent, the rent seems high. Most people don't object to signing the lease when I explain a flat quarterly fee of $50 for water. On average I collect about half of the water bills when the good tenant move. The bad ones that are evicted I recoup nothing for water. --74.78.xxx.xx |
Charging tenants water (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2014 4:22 AM
Message:
If your situation is truly as dire as you describe it, then you only have two options aside from continuing to eat the cost:
1) sell all master water meter units you own and replace them with units where water is billed directly to the tenant individually
2) convert your master meter units to split meters
Or options 3: move to Missouri where judges and laws are more reasonable to land lords...we also have good beer! (grins) --108.250.xxx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by wolf [NY]) Posted on: Jan 16, 2014 8:54 AM
Message:
unpaid water bills in ny stay as a lien with the property so it doesn't help to make the new tenant put it in their name. Usually the water company won't shut it off for non-payment until they are years behind. I have had tenants put it in their name and not pay for a year and a half, then I had to evict for non-payment, and got stuck with the bill after they moved. On a multi-family it has to be in the owners name. If I submetered, I still couldn't turn the water off if the tenant didn't pay. It is as if I am suppose to be reimbursed for heat in the rent, and tenant stopped paying, I can't shut off his heat without evicting him. Only the utility can turn off or non-payment. --74.78.xxx.xx |
Charging tenants water (by frank [NY]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2014 3:04 PM
Message:
Hi Will, first time someone described an inner city in Syracuse but I'm a bit ignorant outside of nyc. Are your rentals rent stabilized? If so, then you are out of luck to submeter. All the judges are liberal here too. However, there is profit to be made with a level headed landlord.
How much cubic feet are you burning a day/week/month? I have a two family here that uses 100cuft/day and then I have a 5 family that uses 100cuft/day. That comes out about $9/day for each property. And in contract for a twelve that uses $15/day.
Those numbers are for legitimate uses of the water. No leaks, no 100 people/apt, no washing machines.
Are you in this range?
Submeter is great to be able to spot leaks and a good attempt to pass to cost to tenants. I submeter two of my 2 families. However, it does take time to watch, read and bill for each tenant.
You just reminded me to follow up with my attorney for an eviction in progress (4 months now). Don't sweat it. Work on getting better tenants. It is worth that investment of time, even more that submetering could.
Are you coming to the MRlandlord conference?
--72.69.xxx.xxx |
Charging tenants water (by Patti [OK]) Posted on: Feb 4, 2014 7:00 AM
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We do not pay for any utilities. all bills are paid by tenants. --72.198.xx.xx |
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