State Specific Question About: Albany (NY)

I had to evict my tenants because they were hoarding 13 cats . When I did finally get them out 2 months later, we found the whole apt destroyed including cat feces mixed with cat litter all over the house. I truly don't know where to begin to describe all the damage .

I am suing in small claims for damages . The tenants are now counter suing me for " failure to pay for appliances I agreed to pay for and security deposit " . I have no idea what appliances they are talking about and I had to use their deposit for part of the 2 months they squatted there .

I have before and after pictures and all receipts from contractors for work done. I am suing them for $1,950.00, not including the 2 months I lost in rent fixing the place.

I'm afraid that in court they will have forged and falsified rent receipts and documents . I wouldn't put it past them to tell the judge they have "receipts" for these mystery appliances they are claiming. How can I prove it to the judge if any documents are falsified with my name at the time we go to court next week ?

kept the security deposit in my rental account for 30 days. As for sending them anything, I had to evict them via a City Marshal

Back to Square 1.

You needed to send them a security deposit accounting, it was and is their right. It needed to be sent to their last know address....Strike one against you...

Plus 1 for the tenant.,and it may cost you..

You should send them an accounting, within the time frame in your state.

It sound like you promised to put in some appliances, and failed to do that. Do they have it in writing?

Are you going to admit it.. in court.

Do you have pictures of the cats, the damage...

This will be decided on damages, you did to them, by not sending a SD, they have a case..

You have a bill for $1900, if their cats did it, and you can prove it..

Now you get no rent while doing the repairs, you evicted them ...

You will be lucky to walk with $800.00 unless you can tell a better story.

Clean up your story it has a lot of holes.

Don't worry, just make sure you have the pictures of before and after, I don't think they will have a chance to win the case after the judge see the pictures.

I do not know what holes IN is finding in your story.

You messed up by not sending a security deposit accounting to the last known address -- your own apt. This is an "ACCOUNTING", not any money. But they were entitled to that accounting and unless you sent it to them, you will have to bear the consequences of your failure.

But that has nothing to do with the damages they caused and the back rent they owe for squatting. It seems that you sued for too little. You should have sued for the full rent for the time they were in the unit without paying rent, for the damages they caused, including the time the unit could not be rented because it was being fixed up. (But that is not the two months you state. How long would it have taken for full cleaning/repair crew to get in and get the place rehabbed? Not for you working weekends!!)

Lots of photos will tell the story. That is the important thing.

Bring three sets of the photos -- one set for you, one set for the judge and one set for the ex-tenants. Eight by 10s are the best.

As to falsified documents, they are a fact of life. It comes down to your word against theirs. Especially in this day of PhotoShopping and whatever the document equivalent is!

Shannon - I think Lois was referring to your written accounting of how the dep was applied, not returning their dep. Don't miss his step or it could cost you dearly.

If tenant field using the work address, it's appropriate for you to use it.

$1950 sounds VERY LOW! for 13 cats. You can see MY apt with on this website or youtube.com/watch?v=Au6cGXckoXI

I suggest you get real with the cost. My judge allows $35 per hour, $250 per room to repaint, replacement cost for carpet (not depreciated)...

I also include the rent for the time to repair.

Remember, these folks stiffed you, lied, abused your property, took advantage of your good nature, and are now ATTACKING YOU in court. This is NOT the time to be magnanimous.

(fyi: their countersuit now shows on YOUR credit report!! You MUST win or yoru score will be reduced!!)

In court, The judge can only grant what you ASK for. You MUST start high because judges like to reduce your amount if he feels sorry for the tenant. Judges do NOT increase the amount you request.

I would ask for the top limit your court allows and let the tenant work to talk it down.

If your loving tennies do not show, in Indiana it's an automatic win for you. Sometimes those who bark the loudest are no-shows.

Appliance thing: probably just blowing smoke. Don't let it rattle you BUT find out what's on their mind. Just call and ask. BUT don't say anything to give away your position.

Forgeries: ask them to give you copies in advance of any receipts they intend to show in court. In the movies they call that DISCOVERY and it has worked for me. I say "the law requires I show you the pictures and accounting before the hearing.(true) Now you show me yours".

In Indiana, once I have a court date, I can fill out a very simple form and mail/deliver it to her as a SUBPEONA for her to produce any and all receipts, photos, etc she intends to submit to the court by ____ (date). If she does not, she is in violation of the subpoena.

Stay calm and do your ground work. Court is NOT about common sense or logic. It is about THE LAW - made by those silly politicians we want to vote out of office!

It is a game with it's own rules and YOU can win if you play the game correctly.

Go observe several cases NOW to learn about the system and take the edge off.

Until he finds a copy of the accounting he sent them he has $1,0000.00 on the table.

That hold needs filled.

He also needs to learn about discovery.

All these holes need covered, if he wants a total win.

If $1900 was for the construction workers, what was the bills and damages of the appliances and other cleanup expense...

A knob missing off an appliance is $2500 plus labor.

Review your damages and fill in the holes,

You will never get more than you ask for in small claims court, and it is called liar court for a reason..

Again it is better to find out now than later... you need to read between the lines. and CYA.

Here, a failure to send the accounting in the specified time frame could result in the landlord forfeiting ALL of the deposit PLUS being liable for the tenants lawyer fees. If you did not send the accounting-- you probably have a PROBLEM!!

NY law is probably tougher than that of NC.

Dear tenant Cat Lover, this accounting statement shows the use of your security deposit at 135 Our street for your tenancy ending Feb 44, 2013

1. Unpaid rent 2 months = 1250

2. Repairs to damaged living room walls = 435

3. Appliance repairs and cleaning = 382

4. Carpet pad replacement and carpet cleaning = 520

5. Bedroom door replacement = 89

6. Replace damaged front door lock, master keyed = 62

Original deposit held of 625

Repairs made with photos before/after = 2738

Balance remaining = 2113

Please remit this balance within 45 days to avoid legal action.

Your pine-sol landlady

I don't usually recommend this -- because I'm more of a di-it-yourself person. But, in this case, based on what you've told us so far (including NOT following the law when it came to handling the S/D accounting and, when told about it, NOT even understanding that you still had to do that even though the damages are more than the S/D), I'd have to say this:

Get a lawyer.

Sorry, but you don't know what you are doing. You've already made a mistake that could cost you the entire case. If you get a LL-friendly judge, you may be fine -- since LOGIC dictates that you should still win. However, if you get a tenant-friendly judge (which is VERY possible), LOGIC WILL NOT APPLY. At that point, that judge could easily side with the tenants since you did not follow the law. Once a judge sees a landlord that doesn't follow the law, some of them immediately decide to "teach that greedy LL a lesson for kicking out these poor cat-loving people."

Seriously -- I usually disagree when OTHER LLs tell people this on this site -- but in this case, I think it is appropriate: get a lawyer to do it right. You haven't done it right so far. You need legal assistance.

Also -- what does your LEASE say about all this? Does it detail no pets? Or does it allow pets and it was just a matter of the damages? Does it detail how MANY pets?

You say that you evicted them for having too many cats. By that do you mean that you just terminated their lease? Or do you mean that you ACTUALLY "evicted" them -- meaning that you went to court and won a right to take back possession of your property? If you did go to court, did you actually do it based on the NUMBER of cats? What was your argument for the eviction as far as a "cure or quit" goes?

What does your lease state about included appliances? Which ones were included in the rental? Did it come with a fridge and stove, for example? It seems odd that you have no idea what they are referring to when it comes to appliances. Was anything discussed at all?

- John...

Indiana is Treble Damages for no SD,

I seen this case play out, and the LL even had an Attorney, I am sure the LL prepped the client.

The LL lost the case,

It is a balancing act.

You have received excellent advice in this thread...stop worrying about what the ex-tenants might do and start writing your security deposit accounting statement; you have dug a huge hole for yourself by failing to follow your state's law, don't get buried there.

I wrote up here once, tell them you mailed a SD accounting, I told the Attorney after court I'd have never admitted I did not send it...yes the Attorney was a friend of mine...

I received a few slams, about honesty, our state is 45 days, reasonable time send it out tomorrow sound reasonable, last know address back date it. and it may come back to you..

Now you know, don't let it happen again,

The law of New York generally requires that tenants submit a security deposit to their landlords, which must be returned once the lease has expired. However, the landlord does not have to return the security deposit if she has to use the deposit as reimbursement for any reasonable costs for repairs beyond normal wear and tear damages that the tenant has caused the property. If the tenant does not pay his rent, the landlord has the right under law in New York to use the security deposit to make up for the difference of the rent the tenant has not paid and legally owes the landlord.

Sure you can take all those deductions, BUT, you have to do an accounting of the security deposit you have been holding and send it to the tenant.

In CT we have 30 days in which to return the sec. dep. or send an accounting to the tenant with an itemized list of the damages, including the unpaid rent, copies of repair invoices, etc.

ALSO, no one has mentioned that when you send the accounting info and you don't know the new address, SEND IT BY CERTIFIED MAIL to the last known address. (Your rental). When the Certified letter is returned to you, keep it unopened - for just this kind of court case.

Sandy, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to be a little bit harsh with you because I think you need it...

1. Don't ask for advice if you don't want to take it. People have given you a LOT of good advice here -- and pretty much ALL of it mentions that you have to do the accounting. So, instead of taking that advice, you instead post some NON-LEGAL text from the Attorney General site that is meant to be general easy-to-read stuff mainly for tenants. It is NOT the legal requirements for your state.

2. You need to go read the LEGAL guidelines for your state. It should detail whether or not you have to give an accounting of how the S/D was used (which you DO have to give).

Also, your stance makes me curious if you followed other S/D laws for your state... Did you give the tenant written notice of WHERE their S/D was kept? By my reading of the state laws, if you kept it in a bank, then you had to give them notice of the name and address of the bank. Did you do that?

So, instead of trying to argue with us about the advice that YOU ASKED FOR, it might make better use of your time to go read your state laws. If you do NOT want to do that, then, as I said, you need a lawyer.

Ok -- I can admit when I may be wrong. Despite some detailed searching, I actually could NOT find any New York law that requires LLs there to give an accounting if they keep a deposit. From MY reading of the law, a LL just has to have a valid/legal reason to KEEP it. From my reading, the burden to request an accounting falls on the tenant.

Now, I only searched for a bit -- so I'm not an expert -- but you MAY have gotten very lucky here. Unless someone else can show otherwise, I currently do not see a requirement to give an accounting to the tenant in the state of NY after keeping a S/D for a valid reason.

Strange, but, so far, looks to be accurate. Weird...

Hopefully, a NY LL will reply with more details.

- John...

I had the same idea as John.., and did a quick internet search for NY STATE's SD accounting rules. At first glance, there does not seem to be such a requirement!!

So, Shannon, don't freak out about not having done this step. But prepare a list of all the damages you suffered, including the unpaid rent and the cost of repairs and clean up, and deduct from that total the SD, showing how much the Tenant still owes you. Be prepared to present that "accounting" to the Court.

Shannon, as I re-read your posts, I think you are on track. Some responders did not read what you wrote and jumped to conclusions. (that can happen if you are typing at the same time they are typing)

Ok...first I would like to address John from MI. Thank you for quoting a law I already know, but doesn't apply to me. You have to disclose bank info and interest statements to tenants when you have over 6 units. I have 2.

I have been a landlord for over 11 years and I wouldn't have come this far by being an idiot. I know enough to do an itemized deduction of damages from their S/D. I know for a fact, If I have cause, they have to demand their deposit from me before bringing it to claims court and that ship sailed months ago. Also, advice is only good if it's right.

I never asked about information about security deposits. Some people just took it upon themselves to give me their states laws and statutes or NYC laws. There is a huge difference between Upstate NY & NYC laws.

Shannon, I am sorry that this thread got sidetracked into the security deposit accounting issue. But I did state in my first post:

"As to falsified documents, they are a fact of life. It comes down to your word against theirs. Especially in this day of PhotoShopping and whatever the document equivalent is!"

And I think it was Brad who said that in his state, he can demand pre-trial discovery so that he can at least see any such forged documents in advance and does not get blindsided.

I hope the tenants do not spend a lot of time doing high quality forgeries. You have your documents and photos in order, and the tenant will be squirming like a toad; the judge will see who to believe.

Shannon: Again, are you reading the LAW -- or are you reading SUMMARIES of the law? My reading of the LAW says that paying INTEREST is required for having over 6 units -- but providing notice of WHERE the S/D is kept is required of ALL Landlords. Again, I'm not an expert on NY law -- but, based on what you've said previously, I'm not convinced you are either. So, as long as you've read the LAW ITSELF and are sure, then great. But my reading of that says that only the INTEREST part is for 6+ units only. The NOTICE of where it is kept seems to be, in my opinion, for ALL Landlords in your state.

Be sure to double-check...

Also, lots of other questions UNRELATED to the accounting were relevant to your first question and you still ignored those. Questions such as what your written agreement says about the appliances included. It just seems odd that you have no idea at all what they are talking about when they say you were supposed to provide appliances that you didn't. All I did was ask if there was more to that -- and what your LEASE says. Sorry, but that IS relevant to your concern about them lying in court.

You are concerned that they will have "receipts for these mystery appliances" for the judge. Well, that's why I was asking for more details -- to try to give you the ADVICE that you asked for! If they show up with a receipt that they had to buy a blender -- then you just show your lease that makes it clear that no blender was supposed to be included!

THAT is why I asked about what your lease says. What appliances are listed in it? If it is clear that about what is included, then why are you worried about them showing up with a receipt for a "mystery appliance"?

- John...