Security Deposit (by Rosie [NY]) May 3, 2012 8:06 PM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J. [WI]) May 3, 2012 8:21 PM
Security Deposit (by Mike45 [NV]) May 3, 2012 8:48 PM
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) May 3, 2012 9:27 PM
Security Deposit (by Ken [NY]) May 4, 2012 4:09 AM
Security Deposit (by phil [OR]) May 4, 2012 8:16 AM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) May 4, 2012 8:56 AM
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) May 4, 2012 11:40 AM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) May 4, 2012 3:12 PM
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) May 4, 2012 5:37 PM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) May 5, 2012 1:34 PM
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) May 5, 2012 8:36 PM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) May 5, 2012 8:45 PM
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) May 5, 2012 8:59 PM
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) May 5, 2012 9:13 PM
Security Deposit (by Rosie [NY]) Posted on: May 3, 2012 8:06 PM Message:
State Specific Question About: NEW YORK (NY)
I own one building which is a two family.
One of my tenants signed a lease with a rider specifically stating security deposit can not be used in lieu of last month's rent. I have collected first month, last month and security deposit from them. Now they are saying that they will not pay the last 2 months rent (one month they will use security and the last month their least month's rent). I know it is illegal to do this with the security but here is my question:
The tenant breaking the law is herself a lawyer. Can she be reported to the bar or can I threaten this? Is there any way she could be jeapordizing her profession? What can I do? --69.204.xxx.xx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J. [WI]) Posted on: May 3, 2012 8:21 PM Message:
Never get caught up in threat games. Keep your eye on the goal of rent collection or eviction to get a paying tenant in. If you get a judgement against her that may affect her professional standing. When she is gone, if she leaves any business cards or other advertisements about her offering legal services that show your units address, you might be able to report her to the professional organizations in your state. --63.81.x.xx |
Security Deposit (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: May 3, 2012 8:48 PM Message:
She is not breaking the law. She is breaching a contract. There is a he11 of a difference.
Upon her failure to pay the next to last month's rent, you can initiate eviction with a __ Day Notice To Pay Rent Or Quit. Then, evict her.
I doubt that the NY State Bar cares about a civil breach of contract. As I said, it is NOT illegal to breach a contract.
And, Kathy, leaving business cards or fliers with an outdated address is not something the Bar will be intersted in either.
Forget that she is an attorney. Just proceed as if she were an accountant or a dog groomer or a waitress. Exactly the same!
--71.49.xxx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 3, 2012 9:27 PM Message:
Because she is a lawyer, she knows that she can probably get away with it.
--96.247.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 4:09 AM Message:
She is trying to intimidate you,you need to be tough right now and make her live to the terms of the lease and when she doesn't pay on time start the eviction process. --67.252.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by phil [OR]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 8:16 AM Message:
Send her a copy of the contract with the part mentioned highlighted. Copy your state laws pertaining to non-payment of rent, and include it is the letter you give her along with 30 day notice to move. Just say since she has given notice, and not paid rent, that that is her 30 day notice, and you are giving her your 30 day notice. If she is not out at end of 30 days an eviction will take place. End of story. --98.232.xxx.xx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 8:56 AM Message:
Its too bad the bar isn't interested in unethical conduct in its members. The Real Estate Professional Organizations are interested in unethical conduct among their members. --63.81.x.xx |
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 11:40 AM Message:
Kathy,
A judgment is not going to affect her professional standing. Neither is giving advice to a client about the possible consequences or non-consequences of not paying last month's rent in advance, even if the client is herself.
None of this is unethical conduct.
--96.247.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 3:12 PM Message:
In some states that is not true:
Lawyer Disbarred for Defaulting on Student Loans
E-mail
Wednesday, 15 April 2009 00:00
A Texas appeals court has upheld the disbarment of a lawyer for defaulting on student loans: Texas appeals court revokes attorney's license for failing to repay student loan, other debts.
This is not an isolated decision. Some years back a Minnesota lawyer was disbarred for defaulting on student loans. In that case, the lawyer was living the high-life while stiffing the student loan administration.
In the Texas case the court's ruling stems from several chances given to the attorney. He was warned and given a provisional license on condition of paying down debts. He was given at least one extension. Ultimately, as reported by Law.com, the judges found:
that because Santulli, a Houston solo practitioner, did not adhere to a previous order requiring him to pay his debts, he lacked the trustworthiness necessary to represent clients.
Defaulting on student loans and indebtedness in general is a serious issue potentially subject to discipline. Typically it is not just default, it is failing to pay on a judgment where the lawyer has the ability to pay using Rule 3.4(c) (violate rules of tribunal) or 8.4(d) under the ABA Model Code as the basis for discipline according to Eric Cooperstein, a former Assistant to the Director of the Minnesota Lawyers Board of Professional Responsibility.
Based on the Law.com account, it appears that Mr. Santulli had about $64,000 of debt. He had been previously ordered, in 2002, to "repay a 'substantial amount of student loan and personal debt' under a plan with the Consumer Credit Counseling Service" because he would be "tempted to "short-shrift" his clients or 'convert money' from his clients to cover his debt." There doesn't seem to be any indication that he ever did "short-shrift" clients or "convert money" from them. Yet, the appeals court determined that there was "clear and rational connection between Santulli's lack of trustworthiness or reliability in carrying out responsibilities and the likelihood that he will harm a client, obstruct administration of justice or violate the disciplinary rules."
This troubles me. This lawyer appears to be being disciplined for violations the board fears he might do because he is in debt. Since when do we discipline for inchoate prospective violations? We do not discipline lawyers for chemical dependency even though there is known correlation between chemical dependency and ethics violations. We have LAP programs, in part, to pro-actively prevent violations and discipline only where there is an actual violation. Is debt any different, particularly here where there is no indication that since 2002 this lawyer committed no violation even though he has consistently had debt problems. Granted, I have not seen the decision much less the underlying record, but one suspects there would mention of actual violations if there were any.
I have no qualms with disciplining a lawyer who refuses to pay debts even though he has the means to - indeed, in my work with the local ethics committee I have voted to find violations where a lawyer unreasonably refused to pay a court reporter. But, with the economy as it is, and with some lawyers definitely feeling its pinch, it strikes me that some very well intentioned but unfortunate attorneys are going to find themselves in debt and unable to pay. I would hope there would be some leniency and understanding by PR Boards given the times and that discipline reserved for those deserving of it: those for who are unreasonably refusing to pay.
- Peter H. Berge --63.81.x.xx |
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 4, 2012 5:37 PM Message:
Kathy,
There seems to be more to the story than is written here.
"Santulli, a Houston solo practitioner, did not adhere to a previous ORDER requiring him to pay his debts, ..."
The story doesn't say who ordered him to pay. but thats a serious offense against the bar. As an officer of the court, he is REQUIRED to obey court orders.
--96.247.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) Posted on: May 5, 2012 1:34 PM Message:
Moshe, Are you thinking that I meant the landlord should complain of use of the security deposit as last after all is said and done even if the property is left undamaged and the tenant leaves not owing anything? That is not what I meant although I admit I didn't clarify as much as I ought. I meant if after the time is up and the tenant ends up being evicted or successfully sued for damages, then the landlord could report the ethical issues to the professional organization. Also the landlord should not 'threaten' to do anything of the kind. They should keep their eye on the ball of finding replacement tenants and prepping the unit. The fact that the tenant is not following the contract, gives heads-up that they may also not move out at scheduled, or pay rent for hold over. This is true not because the tenant is an attorney, but because tenants who behave this way tend to cut other corners too.
It is perfectly ethical for the landlord to voice their complaint to the bar association after all is said and done. The landlord should not go on a crusade to dis-bar the attorney, but it is acceptable to give the organization notice of the ethics problem. If the attorney is using their status to intimidate the landlord, it is even more important to report that kind of behavior in hopes that the bar association will clarify to its members what ethical behavior is. --63.81.x.xx |
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 5, 2012 8:36 PM Message:
Kathy,
The bar doesn't care that the tenant may owe you money. There is nothing in lawyer ethics that a lawyer can't owe people money, especially if he has some argument that suggests that he doesn't owe it. He (she) is entitled to her day in court, and ONLY AFTER YOU GET A FINAL JUDGEMENT (order from the court that he is to pay) is there any ethical obligation placed on the attorney, and that obligation is to pay according to the court order.
You can complain to the bar, but they won't give you the time of day (nor should they). The definition of ethical behavior is very clear to members of the bar by way of the ABA Canons of Ethics, and they do NOT include disputed debts.
Evidently, it is YOU that needs to have what ethical conduct is, clarified. But don't expect the Bar Association to do that for you without charging you a fee.
--96.247.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) Posted on: May 5, 2012 8:45 PM Message:
Moshe, If a landlord is successful in their suit, they do get a judgement. Please cool down a little. There is nothing unethical about a landlord reporting their true experience to any organization they wish. The bar can choose to round file it, or read it as they like. You seem to be getting a little angry. What is that all about? --63.81.x.xx |
Security Deposit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 5, 2012 8:59 PM Message:
Not angry. Just telling it like it is.
But, in case you are really interested, landlords don't have ethics, as far as the bar is concerned. Have you ever seen a document specifying what is ethical for landlords, with landlord agreement?
The bar will have little time (or patience) for such silliness as your report. Just as in court, proceedings before the bar are based on laws (rules of ethics), due process, notification to defendant and discovery and a complete hearing, with representation and appealable decision. So where would your report fit in? It wouldn't. Clearly, you don't want to give up with your desire to "GET" the attorney, but both myself and the bar will see it as a landlord that doesn't know how to manage her affairs wanting to embarrass the attorney, and providing only immature and unusable reasons for your "report".
I'm not angry, but I see your insistence for what it is, just as the bar will. Go ahead and report.
--96.247.xx.xxx |
Security Deposit (by Kathy J [CA]) Posted on: May 5, 2012 9:13 PM Message:
Moshe,
I am not the one with the lawyer tenant. I don't have a lawyer tenant to report. In the past I did have a licensed contractor tenant who decided not to pay rent and after the judgement the California Contractor's Licensing agency was very interested that he had advertised our residential building as his place of business and had not kept his lease agreement. I am sorry to hear that the bar is not as concerned as other professional organizations in the state of California about their members professional behavior. It is a shame but I will be sure to remember that in case any lawyers apply to rent any of my dwellings.
I have had good experiences with other professionals such as Registered Nurses. --63.81.x.xx |
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