120 or 240 volt?
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120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 6:50 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by billy [MA]) Apr 8, 2010 7:04 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Ellie [IL]) Apr 8, 2010 7:05 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Smokowna [MD]) Apr 8, 2010 7:11 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by X the Gypsy [FL]) Apr 8, 2010 7:38 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 7:53 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Apr 8, 2010 8:32 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by RR [WA]) Apr 8, 2010 8:43 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 8:59 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by jguthrie [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 11:54 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by mike [MO]) Apr 8, 2010 11:59 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by jguthrie [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 12:03 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 12:14 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by REID [KS]) Apr 8, 2010 1:20 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Apr 8, 2010 1:58 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Josh [CA]) Apr 8, 2010 2:07 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Apr 8, 2010 2:27 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Apr 8, 2010 4:47 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Robert,Ontario,Canada [ON]) Apr 8, 2010 5:09 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Chris [CA]) Apr 8, 2010 6:08 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 8, 2010 7:25 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by 574-Brad [IN]) Apr 8, 2010 7:37 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Apr 9, 2010 3:20 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Apr 9, 2010 6:11 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by MJ [PA]) Apr 9, 2010 11:15 AM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Apr 9, 2010 12:22 PM
       120 or 240 volt? (by Monte [MT]) Apr 9, 2010 2:37 PM


120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 6:50 AM
Message:

Yesterday I was looking at Electric Wall heaters at Lowes. I have bought these before and they work great in 2 of my rental houses that are all electric.

Lowes sells a 120 volt heater and 240 volt heaters. Do the 240 volt heaters produce more heat due to the extra voltage or do they just produce heat more efficiently than the 120 volt heater? What does doubling the voltage do here other than having to increase the size of your breakers to accomodate a 240 voltage?

Any electricians out there?

--76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by billy [MA]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:04 AM
Message:

seem to recall u need a separate line for the 240.but i will defer top the experts. --208.58.x.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Ellie [IL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:05 AM
Message:

I can tell you that the 120 volt towers heat a room nicely. I keep them on hand for when a tenant's heat goes out --208.94.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Smokowna [MD]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:11 AM
Message:

220 uses less energy and the 220 liquid filled does not surge as much, thereby using less energy than a basic 220.

I too like the 110 tower units. I keep them for emergencies also. --173.66.xx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by X the Gypsy [FL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:38 AM
Message:

The 220 volt units cost less to run. Like 1/2 as much.

You will need to run a separate line for each of them . What I do is have the electrician install a sub panel dedicated only to the heaters. Run a home run from the subpanel to each heater separately. That way, tenant can control each heater as needed. Separate thermostat for each heater in the room heater is in. These t'stats can be put directly on the heaters and have auto cutoff when temp reaches desired level.

In the summer, just throw the main on the subpanel and all power is off to the heaters.

I find this way cheaper than a central unit with ductwork. Maybe 60-70 per room for the heater and t'stat and another 300-500 for the electrician to install subpanel and home run wiring. If the walls are not open for repairs/insulation, run conduit on the outside of the house and punch it in through the walls where necessary and paint it to match. Big houses will be more $$ for the electrician.

Then throw out the central heating unit and seal off/throw away the duct work.

If you have central a/c, get rid of it too and go to window units.

Some people will not like this and insist on central heat/a.c.. Good for them and that's OK if the house is higher value.

For those lower priced places (under 50K) that get 500 approx. for rent, that's how I go. --72.135.xx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:53 AM
Message:

Thanks X the Gypsy,

When I buy the MH, the first thing I have to do to pass city inspections is to add electric wall heaters in the living room and 3 bedrooms. I will do the sub-panel like you suggested with home-run wiring. --76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 8:32 AM
Message:

Most of the previous responses are wrong. The output of the heater is directly related to the wattage. A heater of given wattage operated at the design voltage produces the same amount of heat a any other heater of the same wattage, even if the design voltage of the other heater is different. Operating cost is the same for equal wattages, no matter the voltage. A 1200 watt heater for 120 volts draws 10 amperes. A 1200 watt heater for 240 volts draws 5 amperes. A 120 volt circuit with #14 wire can supply a 1440 watt heater. A 240 volt circuit with #14 wire can supply a heater of 2880 watts. The reason for my numbers is that circuits supplying continuous loads must be loaded not more than 80% of the full circuit capacity. Heater loads meet the definition of continuous which in the NEC is 3 or more hours without interruption. --67.213.xx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by RR [WA]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 8:43 AM
Message:

a watt is a watt

best to use 240 volt for heating if possible

--98.247.xx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 8:59 AM
Message:

Thanks for the clarificaiton. I only buy the 240 volt heaters. The one for the living room is 3,000 watts and the bedroom heaters are 1,500 watts.

These electric heaters are installed recessed inside the wall between two studs that are 16 inches on center. They are the least expensive heating system for a house that I know of. I use them in my low end rentals where Central H/A is not economically feasible. --76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by jguthrie [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 11:54 AM
Message:

I have struggled with the heating/cooling questions. Central HVAC is expensive even with me buying at internet prices and doing the install myself. The cooling is easy to get around with cheap window units being both plentiful and reasonably efficient. However, electric strip heat is very costly to operator. Even though electric heat is almost 100% ENERGY efficient, it is VERY financially inefficient. SSOOO, my question to Roy and others who use electric heat in rentals, do you have tenants who have trouble paying the rent because the heat bills are so high? Do your tenants complain about high heat bills with the electric heat? --199.248.xxx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by mike [MO]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 11:59 AM
Message:

I would check the box and see if they give an efficiency value for both the 120 and the 240VAC. A watt is a watt is a watt; however, how much input power is required to produce the specified output heat? --70.239.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by jguthrie [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 12:03 PM
Message:

By the way, Roy. Opinionated [NC] is right with his numbers. I have run 1500 watt heaters on #14 wire because #14 circuits have 15 amp breakers. But, 1500 watts continuous is a stretch for #14. ANY connections that are less than tight and secure IS a fire risk. Also, a continuous full load will cause hot spots in the circuits which will weaken the good connections over time.

In fact, with the new lead laws I have been considering a plan to build a few NEW SMALL rentals. I call them Jerry Cottages. As I consider the specs, one of them will be no wire smaller than #12. The NEC will probably get there at some point anyway. --199.248.xxx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 12:14 PM
Message:

Jguthrie said,

" Do your tenants complain about high heat bills with the electric heat?"

Yes, my tenants complain about high heat bills, however, I tell them since you are in a house which is "all electric" , your over-all power bill would be much higher if gas heat was used. Most tenants have lived in a gas heated house before and know what it cost to pay Alagasco during the winter months.

Also, when I advertise, I put in the ad that the house is "all-electric" and my phone rings off the hook. All-electric are code words for "cheap ultities". Whether this is actaully true or not does not matter,..what matters is what the tenants think it to be.

--76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by REID [KS]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 1:20 PM
Message:

ROY if you get TVA power you have some of the best electrical rates in the country and should take advantage of it. --70.250.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 1:58 PM
Message:

120 or 240 volt? (by mike [MO]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 11:59 AM

Message:

I would check the box and see if they give an efficiency value for both the 120 and the 240VAC. A watt is a watt is a watt; however, how much input power is required to produce the specified output heat? --70.239.213.248"

Trying again to create an understanding. One watt = 3.14 BTU. That's it, as simply as it can be expressed. --67.213.xx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Josh [CA]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 2:07 PM
Message:

I can tell you in CA in my all electric gold medallion 4 unit that has radiant heating in the ceiling and thick popcorn on the ceilings inside surface that it's expensive to heat the units with this electric heat. Dumb dumb dumb planning. This was a Statewide construction building project in 1964-65. So it was government backed by grants. --24.176.xxx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Opinionated [NC]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 2:27 PM
Message:

Typing error on my previous post. One watt=3.412 BTU. --67.213.xx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 4:47 PM
Message:

I just hardwire baseboard heaters for my mobiles. I do run new wire to the panel. --71.98.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Robert,Ontario,Canada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 5:09 PM
Message:

A more efficient way of electric heating is to install radiant floor electric heating which will be expensive to install. Basically it is the voltage times the current. So if one is using 120 Vac times 6 amps then that is 720 watts. If one is using 240 VAC times 3 amps then that is 720 watts. If the existing heater is using a voltage then it is easier to replace with the same voltage which will avoid changing the wiring, thermostat and circuit breaker. A heat pump is more efficient as long as the temperature is above freezing. Another option is to upgrade windows, insulation and doors which will reduce the heat loss. As the heat loss is reduced then the amount of heat will be less. --74.220.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Chris [CA]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 6:08 PM
Message:

Gypsy, I cannot follow your math. 110 V requires twice the amps. Any savings should be in the 1-digit % range.

--125.25.xxx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:25 PM
Message:

Dan in FL said,

"I just hardwire baseboard heaters for my mobiles."

Dan - I installed baseboard heaters in a low-end SFH and I did not like them. They took some time to heat up and since they had no blowers on them, the heat did not radiate very well and half the room stayed cold all the time. My tenants hated them. Eventually, I tore them out and replaced then with electric wall heaters with fans inside them.

Two 3,000 watt/240 volt heaters can heat-up a cold 800 square foot 2/1 house in about 10-15 minutes.

--76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by 574-Brad [IN]) Posted on: Apr 8, 2010 7:37 PM
Message:

240 is always better, if your going to be running new wire anyways it's no extra work. Just be careful, I've never been shocked by 240 but I heard it hurts. --66.228.xx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2010 3:20 AM
Message:

Roy,

Sounds interesting,I'm going to look into them. How much do they cost? Where do you buy them at? There is not much room in the wall of a mobile.I wonder if they will work on them. Most winters down here are mild until this past one. --71.98.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2010 6:11 AM
Message:

Dan asked,

"How much do they cost? Where do you buy them at? There is not much room in the wall of a mobile.I wonder if they will work on them."

Dan -These heaters are made by a company called Fahrenheat and Lowes sells them usually only during the cold months of the year. They range in price from $100 -$150 depending on wattage /voltage you pick. The depth of the wall heater insert (shallow metal can) is about 3.5 inches or the depth of 2x4 stud.

Also, since these heaters are screwed into the studs and they are hard-wired, tenant thieves are less likely to steal them when skip out in the middle of night.

--76.18.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by MJ [PA]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2010 11:15 AM
Message:

240 is the way to go with heaters and airconditioners. They will use less power compared to the 120. Higher the voltage, lower the amps. --12.161.xxx.xx




120 or 240 volt? (by Dan [FL]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2010 12:22 PM
Message:

Thanks Roy, I'm going to check them out. --71.98.xxx.xxx




120 or 240 volt? (by Monte [MT]) Posted on: Apr 9, 2010 2:37 PM
Message:

Gypsy needs to go back to electrical 101.

She/he knows as much about landlording than the person knows about electricity.

Take a hike Gypsy until you improve your knowledge. Your knowledge is worthless and could be considered 'dangerous' to some of the newbees. You are an insult to a landlords' knowledge. --187.52.xx.xxx





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