Can I deduct from Securit (by Sharon [CT]) Dec 6, 2009 6:48 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Barbara [VA]) Dec 6, 2009 6:53 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by James [MA]) Dec 6, 2009 6:59 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by sharon [CT]) Dec 6, 2009 7:06 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 6, 2009 8:05 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Lisa [OH]) Dec 6, 2009 11:13 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Dec 7, 2009 12:32 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Reid [KS]) Dec 7, 2009 12:51 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Nancy [IN]) Dec 7, 2009 6:57 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Sharon [CT]) Dec 7, 2009 11:25 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 7, 2009 11:30 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 7, 2009 11:30 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Dec 7, 2009 2:47 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 7, 2009 4:04 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Dec 7, 2009 9:06 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 8, 2009 10:26 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Dec 8, 2009 11:27 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Dec 8, 2009 11:30 AM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 8, 2009 1:33 PM
Can I deduct from Securit (by Sharon [CT]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 6:48 PM Message:
State Specific Question About: CONNECTICUT (CT)
Hi everyone. I have a question. I had a real PITA tenant finally get out. Now I am getting my security statement together to send her. I have a lot to list. She will definately be getting a bill. However, not sure if I can charge for some things so let me ask here, first, we had to start an eviction earlier in her tenancy and incurred about $150 in legal fees from an attorney. She begged us to stop it and promised to pay on time. The following year we had to start another one. Our lease calls for her to pay for any legal fees if an eviction is necessary. The second eviction, I did myself. I am a paralegal and I knew how to prepare the documents. Can I charge for my time and work? If so, how do I calculate it? If anyone knows or has come across this before, please let me know the answer. Thanks. Sharon --99.7.xxx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Barbara [VA]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 6:53 PM Message:
I am fairly certain you can not charge for your time/work. I suspect you can charge for the attorney you did hire. A CT LL would probably be along at some point and give you a more definitive answer. --71.176.xx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by James [MA]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 6:59 PM Message:
You needed to charge the legal fees when they were incurred, not a year later. You are SOL on your own time. --70.22.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by sharon [CT]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 7:06 PM Message:
how could I get her to pay she barely paid her rent. --99.7.xxx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 8:05 PM Message:
I don't know anything about CT laws, but I strongly doubt that you can deduct the $150 legal fees for the first eviction. The meaning of your lease clause is that the judge is authorized to award legal fees, although he will generally award them to the prevailing party, and interpret your lease clause to mean the prevailing party, not just you. But only the judge can make that award, not you, despite your lease clause.
Time and "work" of your own would go by the same rules. I don't know what "work" you want to charge for in addition to your time. You cannot charge a "legal fee" since 1) you are not an attorney and 2) the judge would need to award it. For just charging for your time, you would need some authority under the law.
But you're the paralegal, and you should know about this.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Lisa [OH]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2009 11:13 PM Message:
It only becomes an issue if you end up in court. So it's your call, if the judge throws it out you still have nothing to lose by trying. --24.29.xxx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 12:32 AM Message:
As a paralegal you should know very well that you may not bill for your "time and work."
Filling out the forms for an eviction is basically clerical work. An ABA listed attorney you work for cannot even bill his or her clients for your time for clerical duties. The only time a paralegal's time may be billed for is when substantive work has been completed. The attorney the paralegal works for is only entitled compensation for work which falls outside of the realm of clerical duties.
While you certainly have every right to represent yourself in court proceedings or civil matters, you are only entitled to actual costs you have incurred. The absolute most you will be entitled to concerning filing the eviction is the filing fee.
If you bill your tenant for your "time and work," you will receive no judgment or award in your favor. The judge may even then decide that your total claim is overinflated or bogus and rule in your tenant's favor because he or she has now become prejudiced based on your trying to bill for services in which you have no legal right.
One more thing to ponder: As a paralegal you may not set or calculate fees to be charged for legal services. Most states recognize that setting legal fees is a core function of being an attorney and any paralegal who has set a legal fee, charged a legal fee, etc. is guilty of the unauthorized practice of law. --99.4.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Reid [KS]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 12:51 AM Message:
One thing is certain you won't get a dime for something you haven't billed for. Read the CT law section on this site. Charge for anything that your state allows and that you have supporting paperwork for . Here you can charge for work you have done as long as the charges are "reasonable and Customary". Our courts are off the wall and they are just as likely to disallow a bill Terminex as they are a bill from you the LL for the bug killing you did with chemicals from walmart. It just depends on the mood they are in that day . I've even had the judge say they didn't want to see any bills or invoices I had ,rather they just told me " Just figure up what the tenant owes you and I'll sign off on it " I'm serious. It's like tea time in Wonderland. --70.248.xx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Nancy [IN]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 6:57 AM Message:
Getty is right. You can't charge for your time. You are not an attorney, but merely performing clerical services.
You can charge the filing fee, but that's it. --65.55.xx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Sharon [CT]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 11:25 AM Message:
Thanks for all the responses. I was not sure if I could charge for my time and if so was not sure how much anyway. I am going to real the CT law section to make sure I did not forget anything. I have closet doors missing which I know I can charge for plus the installation, she did not pay her last month's rent so that is a given and I am going to try for the first eviction legal fees because like someone said it can't hurt all they can say is no. As always some good feed back. Thanks to all. Sharon --99.7.xxx.xx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 11:30 AM Message:
"like someone said it can't hurt all they can say is no. "
Yes, but as a paralegal, you should be able to reason to yourself if you are entitled or not.
If you charge without a sound basis, you are bringing disrepute on yourself as a paralegal plus making us all look like greedy and unprofessional landlords who are only interested in the money and not in being right.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 11:30 AM Message:
"like someone said it can't hurt all they can say is no. "
Yes, but as a paralegal, you should be able to reason to yourself if you are entitled or not.
If you charge without a sound basis, you are bringing disrepute on yourself as a paralegal plus making us all look like greedy and unprofessional landlords who are only interested in the money and not in being right.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 2:47 PM Message:
Moshe, if she sets a flat fee for the eviction which is anything other than the filing fee, she will most likely be referred to the CT Bar by the small claims judge and she is going to be in a pot of boiling water.
As a landlord you can go into small claims court and try to charge fees for your "time and work" and "like someone said it can't hurt all they can say is no" might even hold true. BUT Sharon stated she is a paralegal, this does not apply to her.
As a paralegal she is expected to know how the law pertains to her and she is expected to be able to apply her legal knowledge to her situation. A properly educated and trained paralegal will not even broach the idea of whether or not they can charge a legal fee to anyone - ANYONE. As a paralegal, if Sharon goes to court charging a legal fee or flat fee for the eviction she has filed, she is guilty of the unauthorized practice of law. She's risking fines, sanctions, or jail.
Sharon, you keep referring to the eviction with the term "legal fees." If you are charging the filing fee, you are okay. If you are charging a legal fee for work you've done - you are not okay. You may not even call the filing fee a legal fee because once you as a paralegal use the term "legal fee," you have violated and encroached upon a core function of being an attorney and at that very moment you are practicing law. --99.4.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 4:04 PM Message:
Getty, Do you think that she can just charge for filing fee from the security deposit? Isn't that something that the judge has to award as part of the eviction suit?
If the suit was withdrawn without reimbursement of the fee, isn't that a settlement to withdraw the suit which disposes of the fee issue?
I would stress the unprofessionality of deducting from the deposit without a sound basis, worse to go to court without a solid claim, unprofessional for any landlord, doubly unprofessional for a paralegal.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2009 9:06 PM Message:
Moshe, in my opinion, if she charges the tenant for the legal fees the attorney charged her for the first eviction, and the filing fee for the second eviction, she will most likely lose if it becomes a court case.
While her lease may state that the tenant was responsible for legal fees if eviction was necessary, she never enforced the lease. After the first eviction, if the tenant did not pay the past due rent, legal fees, and filing fees and Sharon stopped the eviction anyway, the lease was not enforced. At the second eviction it seems that the same thing is pretty much the case.
In order for her tenant to be responsible for the legal fees and filing fees, she would have had to enforce her lease while it was in place. By stopping the evictions and accepting rent from her tenant, the eviction was effectively settled. Since her tenant didn't leave because of the eviction(s), the clause in her lease will not be enforced.
--99.4.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2009 10:26 AM Message:
Getty,
You and I are talking about two different things.
Sharon has a clause in her lease that calls for tenant to pay for any legal fees if an eviction is necessary. First, a judge won't like that it applies to only one party, second, the law probably allows for award of legal fees only to PREVAILING party, although it needs both parties consent (lease) to make a fee award. But in either of these cases, the issue of legal fees is part of the eviction suit and is awardable only in judgement of the eviction case. Once the eviction suit is withdrawn (without provision for payment of fees) Sharon cannot come back and say, well she had an expense so now she wants to be paid for that expense and so she deducts. The legal fee was awardable by the eviction judge in judgement of the eviction suit. After withdrawal of the suit, there is no more suit, so there is no more legal fee. Going to, say, small claims court afterwards asking for the legal or filing fees from a withdrawn eviction suit, the small claims court does not have jurisdiction to make such an award, lease clause or not.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2009 11:27 AM Message:
Moshe, we're pretty much talking about the same thing. In an eviction case you can settle your case if your tenant agrees to pay past due rent, late fees, and legal fees and you may settle the case for such.
You are correct that when a landlord withdraws or settles a case through the court there is no award for fees. Sharon was never awarded any fees and she settled her eviction case without a judgment (or so it seems). But this doesn't mean she can't settle outside of court for her fees in order to stop the eviction (in most states).
If she had gone to court and the judge ruled in her favor, she could then sue her tenant for her legal fees, etc. Since she settled these evictions and there was no judgment, this is why I said if this becomes a court case she will lose.
As far as the lease clause she has requiring her legal fees be paid if eviction is necessary, she may have been able to collect by this clause had she followed through, her tenant been evicted, and then she sued for her legal fees.
At this point in time what she's grasping at is the hope she can keep whatever she wants to keep from her tenant's security deposit. She had this lease clause that she never enforced - nor did she follow through on any of her evictions. She was never awarded an eviction judgment against her tenant nor was she awarded any monetary judgment.
Basically she's said that she's just going to "charge and see how it goes," or something along those lines. As usual someone on this forum is going to pop up and say you can't collect what you don't charge - meaning they'll charge and hope they get away with it. --99.4.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Getty [GA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2009 11:30 AM Message:
Something I forgot... As I said she could have settled for the past due rent, late fees, and legal fees outside of court (in most states). If she didn't have her tenants pay all of the above - she's just out of luck at this point. --99.4.xxx.xxx |
Can I deduct from Securit (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2009 1:33 PM Message:
She should have made a settlement to withdraw which included tenant paying fees. That doesn't require any lease clause.
In CA, award of fees is part of judgment for eviction (although it requires a subsequent motion). She cannot sue later for fees.
--98.119.xxx.xxx |
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