Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 8:03 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Elia [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 8:27 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 8:31 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Red [GA]) Oct 7, 2008 8:38 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Brenda [TX]) Oct 7, 2008 8:58 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 9:02 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 9:51 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Oct 7, 2008 9:53 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Oct 7, 2008 9:54 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Eddie [KY]) Oct 7, 2008 11:02 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 11:13 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Oct 7, 2008 11:49 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Teresa [CA]) Oct 7, 2008 11:55 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 12:08 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by TIM [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 12:16 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Oct 7, 2008 12:22 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Steve [FL]) Oct 7, 2008 12:37 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 12:47 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 1:08 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Mac [OH]) Oct 7, 2008 1:28 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 1:34 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Mac [OH]) Oct 7, 2008 1:59 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by tyler [NC]) Oct 7, 2008 2:37 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Dominick [NJ]) Oct 7, 2008 4:55 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by Nancy [IN]) Oct 7, 2008 8:50 PM
Mortgage fraud? (by proofstyle [PA]) Oct 8, 2008 6:03 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by John [OR]) Oct 8, 2008 6:35 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by MarkNichols [OR]) Oct 13, 2008 10:43 AM
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:03 AM Message:
State Specific Question About: NORTH CAROLINA (NC)
If someone buys a house with cash and then applies for an equity line with more than one bank, is that considered mortgage fraud? If I were to get 2 80% loans from different banks at the same time, my loans would be much more than the home value so of course the banks would not like it and may call the loan if they find out, but is this criminal?
P.S. If you don't know the answer, please spare me the lecture on ethics. --169.200.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Elia [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:27 AM Message:
You're getting the loans at the same time. And you're not telling the banks about each other. And you want us to spare you the lecture on ethics. Sounds like you just answered your own question. Yep. It's fraud. --76.251.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:31 AM Message:
Not sure how you'd pull this off??? When they searched the title, wouldn't the first one be found? Or are you thinking of closing them the exact same day - in the hopes that they wouldn't find out? If so, I'm not a lawyer, but I think they'd come after you for mortgage fraud... Sure seems like misrepresenting your position for gain to me - and that's the definition of fraud.
Bad idea, bad karma, bad juju all around - and a decent shot at a roommate named Bubba... not something I'd even think of trying. And that's my opinion WITHOUT invoking the ethics side of things! (trying hard to respect your request for "no lecture") --69.27.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Red [GA]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:38 AM Message:
Mortgage fraud? (by Brenda [TX]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:58 AM Message:
I think they would find it or see it in the credit report as another bank doing a search on your report. I also think that when you sign the paperwork for equity line, there's something in there about how you haven't taking another loan out with another bank. --167.6.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 9:02 AM Message:
Troll? Really? No, its a legitimate question. I was advised to do it by someone that has a lot of experience in real estate investing, but it sounded fishy to me. The reason I asked for no ethical regurgitation, is because I have never seen a post on here where someone didn't reply with a holier-than-though attitude. There is a lot of experienced people on here, which makes it a great resource, but I've never seen a forum anywhere on the web where there are so many condescending attitudes. IMHO, this forum would be a lot better if people would just stick to the facts when answering questions and leave the preaching for church. --169.200.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 9:51 AM Message:
Scott -
I won't preach... and I don't think that you're a troll. I believe that you are who you say you are. I just ran your IP address through a whois search. It would seem, sir, that you work for a bank that is currently undergoing a lot of stress right now! Sorry for the tough times you're likely having.
Doing this as a current employee of large bank seems like a doubly crazy idea! Besides, shouldn't you know the answer to this question? Yes, it's fraud - and yes it's unethical... nothing holier than thou about it. Just a dumb idea that you are likely to get caught trying to pull of.
For those of you who don't want to spend the time to run the IP address... the owner of it ends in "...ovia". In Winston Salem NC. You can do the math from there.
You did want us to "stick to the facts", right? Them's the facts - unless you're somehow spoofing that IP address. --69.27.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 9:53 AM Message:
WOW! I found it very, very interesting that the IP used by the original poster happens to be owned by... Wait for it...
WACHOVIA.COM!
Yep, 169.200.173.56 resolves to nc-cic-zop04.wachovia.com.
Either this guy works for the bank -- or he is dumb enough to use one of their public terminals to ask questions about ripping them off. heh.
- John...
--207.241.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 9:54 AM Message:
(Same time post as JeffBlackwell there -- guess we were both looking up his IP at the same time. :) --207.241.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Eddie [KY]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 11:02 AM Message:
they will catch you when they do the final title opinion after they record the mortgage. Then as already mentioned you would be in deep trouble. --75.106.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 11:13 AM Message:
Thanks Eddie, that is the kind of answer I was looking for. And per my past experience, I feel more confident in your response than I do from the replies from all of the dorks that try to impress everyone with how smart they are... --169.200.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 11:49 AM Message:
We're not trying to be smart or impress anyone -- we were giving you advice (as requested) and also questioning the fact that you're posting from a Wachovia-owned IP address. You so see that we might see that as a little odd, right? A guy posting from a bank that is asking a question about something that is fairly obviously mortgage fraud?
The only reason you like Eddie's answer is that he finally explained WHY you would get caught. That just proves that your REAL intent wasn't whether or not it WAS wrong (you KNEW it was) -- it was whether or not you'd be likely to get CAUGHT.
- John...
--207.241.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Teresa [CA]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 11:55 AM Message:
As our sixth grade teacher had us write for detention: "The true measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he wouldn't be found out." --97.93.xx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 12:08 PM Message:
Ya know, everyone that works at a bank doesn't work in the mortgage/fraud department, but I'm sure you know everything about whereever you work. Also, not everyone that works at a bank does their personal banking at their place of employment. The fact is, I was advised to do this by my REAL ESTATE agent! Yes, I thought it might be wrong and I came here for clarification, not to get smart aleck comments and an ethics lesson. I guess I expected too much. --169.200.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by TIM [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 12:16 PM Message:
I thought when a person went to RE class to become a RE agent, it was basically an ethics class with basic business issues. So therefore, that says a lot about that agent.... --67.236.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 12:22 PM Message:
Again -- you can quit saying that you came here for "clarification" of if it was wrong or not. As you've shown by what you've said, you clearly came to see how one might get CAUGHT doing it -- not if it was wrong or not.
- John...
--207.241.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Steve [FL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 12:37 PM Message:
Scott, you've identified a typical human trait that we all have. We tend to think a Lawyer, Doctor or other trade should know every part of their field. As evidenced by your question here. This board is extremely valuable but occasionally will extend opinions beyond their knowledge exactly like they expect you to know everything within your company. I wouldn't take it personally.
IMHO, Eddie was dead on. Each state has varying laws regarding recording RE documents. In GA, it would be easy to physically do it twice, FL would be difficult. Ga takes their sweet time in recording liens, FL nearly races to the courthouse at closing. NC???
I suspect what you are asking would be revealed in the mortgage application process and result in fraud in that area. If not, it would be in state laws regarding the recording of liens/mortgages. --24.99.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 12:47 PM Message:
Scott -
I meant no offense in pointing out your IP address. I didn't know _for sure_ that the title search would catch it, but I suspected as much. Please see above. And I tried to respect your wishes of the ethics question, in spite of my sometimes overly strong opinions.
If I was overly harsh, I meant no harm. I do think that attempting this would be a VERY bad idea. but you already heard that, and I won't belabor the point - too much (grin).
I have to admit that you got my goat when you went on the attack re: the people on this board. I consider many of them my friends. They can be overly harsh at times, but I believe that history has shown them to be mostly well intentioned, even in their harshness. Dumb ideas - or ones that will lead you in harm's way, will generally get shot down in flames. That's a good thing in my opinion - it has saved me from trouble in the past.
I only looked up the IP address out of curiousity. I apologize for the "you should know" comment. Your point is valid - not everyone that works in a bank works with mortgages. My fault - I have a small family business where yes, indeed, I HAVE to know the ins and outs of _everything_ that happens. Please accept my apologies for that.
If a Realtor encouraged you to do this, then in my opinion, they violated every possible code in the book. I would suggest that you cease doing business with this person. Playing with rattlesnakes will only get you bit in the long run. And when you get bit, you are forced to recall that you knew what the snake was when you picked it up... Again, not an ethics lecture, but a practical opinion.
Best regards. --69.27.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Scott [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 1:08 PM Message:
Jeff, thanks for your sincere follow-up. As we all know there are many grey areas in this business and other people's experience is often very helpful in clarifying the proper course of action. That's why I'm here! --169.200.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Mac [OH]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 1:28 PM Message:
After all that what kinda blade do I need for my saw? Geesh. --173.88.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by JeffBlackwell [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 1:34 PM Message:
Thanks, Scott... if I can clarify one thing (and only for the record)???
Please do not take this as a ethics lecture - I hope that I have shown that I don't mean it that way. I just want to make sure that I am not misunderstood.
I personally think that this particular issue is pretty black and white. There may be gray areas, but I fear that this is not among them. (just my not-so-humble opinion) As a general rule, I've found that "if ya have to ask whether or not its _technically_ legal - it's usually NOT a cool idea!"
It never seemed to work too well for me when playing pranks in school... (evil grin). Let's just say that I'm an identical twin - and we asked ourselves that "can I get away it?" question a few too many times! And answered "Let's find out!" a few too many times for our own good!
Thanks for allowing me the clarification, so that where I stand on things is not misunderstood.
All the best --69.27.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Mac [OH]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 1:59 PM Message:
This question was like asking if it's ok to kill my neighbor and bury him in the backyard. --67.140.xx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by tyler [NC]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 2:37 PM Message:
yes its fraud and will/can result in criminal charges (not just civil)....., more than likely jail time will occur.... --75.181.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Dominick [NJ]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 4:55 PM Message:
The question is mute, since the only way to accomplish this, would be to intentionally lie on both of the mortgage loan documentations, which combined with the amount of monies obtained by fraud/deceit would equate to few years in state prison --64.12.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by Nancy [IN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2008 8:50 PM Message:
Of course it's fraud. Hope this "real estate agent" looks good in an orange jumpsuit, or whatever jailbirds are wearing in your area.
You sign documents at the loan indicating that you have represented your true financial position and that no additional financial transactions changing your position have occurred. An additional mortgage on the same property would most definitely fall into this category.
Fines and jail time. Don't even think about it. And your "real estate agent" is an idiot for even suggesting it, assuming you properly understood him. --65.54.xxx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by proofstyle [PA]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2008 6:03 AM Message:
Mac, WHICH backyard - his or yours? --64.12.xxx.xxx |
Mortgage fraud? (by John [OR]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2008 6:35 AM Message:
This is one of those things that some of the real estate gurus used to propose as a way to close a property and get cash. But over leverage is usually not a good idea economically, let alone from a relationship with a bank point of view. --24.21.xx.xx |
Mortgage fraud? (by MarkNichols [OR]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2008 10:43 AM Message:
Jeff,
What web site can you check a IP address --74.60.xxx.xxx |
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