--72.227.xxx.xxx

Old people are always wanting to crank up the heat. Obviously, she is not comfortable at a lower level. She's not wasting the heat...sleeping with the window open, etc., is she? Come on, let the old lady stay warm. (I don't know about the legality of it, but if it were my grandmother and she had to keep it at 68 because that's what you are comfortable at, I'd be upset!) --24.126.xxx.xx

Lizard, you're too far south to understand the magnitude of heating costs up here. I had a six unit building where I paid the heat and at today's prices it would be costing me close to $20K/year for oil had I not switched it to separate systems. Newbie needs to limit those thermostats. The tenants need to walk around in sweaters if need be. If that doesn't keep the tenants warm enough then they need to move. This could be costing newbie a fortune. --76.19.xx.xxx

Would she have it like this if she were paying? I don't think so. My owm mother is 79 and doesn't do this. I would talk with her & explain the facts of life, if no co-operation raise rent. --68.112.xxx.xxx

Sean --76.20.xx.xx

What I meant was I don't agree with Lizard. That tenant is indeed costing Newbie a fortune. --68.112.xxx.xxx

Look up Robert's (Ontario) old posts. He has insulated walls, installed energy efficient water heaters and boilers, etc. A gold mine of information over the years. --151.213.x.xx

Raising her rent would be the safe thing to do. If you cut her heat, she will just buy an electric heater to sit by which could = fire hazard. My next door neighbor was her age, owned her own two story home, rented out the upstairs to help pay for her heat bill, she kept the house at 80 in the winter. I would go visit her and nearly pass out from the heat in that house!!! Her upstairs tenant must of been roasting in that house. --74.236.xxx.xxx

If she/they are tenants at will, you can advise them that you will be adjusting the rent accordingly in relation to increased heating fuel costs. Build in a clause that you can re-adjust up or down every __ days. The notice should be in writing with proof of delivery. --71.196.xx.xxx

First one has limit the heat by installing locking non-electric radiator valves on the radiators which are made by Danfoss or Honeywell Braukman. The (Hdsupply) sells locking non-electric radiator valves made by Honeywell Braukman. Go into the website to check out radiator valves. One can install a Tekmar electronic outdoor indoor boiler control which is going to limit the boiler temperature. One could use a #260 control for a single boiler. Website (tekmarcontrols) If there is natural gas available in the area then one can look at replacing the boiler with a high efficiency gas boiler which will operate at over 90 per cent. Some apartment buildings have a coal boiler with a oil burner installed where the boiler is only 50 to 55 per cent efficient. That means most of the heat is going up the chimney stack. Installing reflectors behind the radiators will improve the performance of the radiator. If natural gas is not available then look at changing the boiler to higher efficiency oil boiler which should give at least 83 per cent. Look at insulating all the heating and hot water pipes in the boiler area with pipe insulation which will be minimal cost but save energy. Seal up any air leaks around doors, windows around the building. Air leakage will cause a considerable heat loss. If there are single pane windows then the R factor is only 1. Upgrading the windows with low E and argon will give at least a R factor of 4. If the domestic hot water is heated with oil then look at installing a indirect hot water tank which is more efficient then a direct fired tank. A indirect hot water tank will loose only one half of degree per hour. Often very little work is done on some apartment building where the heating plants are long out of date and nothing has been done to reduce the energy costs. Changing the shower heads to low flow will save hot and cold water. Discard the old shower heads as the tenants will reinstall the old shower heads. If the radiator are copper finned type then by just cleaning and installing reflective tape will lower the temperature. --209.226.xxx.xxx

--68.193.x.xxx

I'm just wondering if I can change the tenant agreement to say that I will only cover heat to 68 degrees. I would prefer to do that rather than raise the rent. --72.227.xxx.xxx

If you feel guilty about turning a profit, there are more needy recipients on whom to bestow your charity. --71.196.xx.xxx

A boiler can be 50 years old then still working but not very efficient. To put things in perpective. For natural gas in a Fifteen unit with 2 bedroom apartments in a colder climate with copper finned radiators. The annual cost of natural gas including running commercial heavy natural gas clothes dryers and providing domestic hot water for the apartment building it costs around $7,689.38 per year. That works out to $42.72 per suite per month. Since getting rid of direct fired hot water tank and installing high efficiency gas boilers with a indirect hot water tank along with insulating the hallways with some weather stripping the natural gas consumption was half of what it was before. Going to look at insulating siding which is made by Vic West. The apartment building had 3 boilers which all fired at once and direct fired hot water tank which was one million Btus combined. Now there is only 400,000 Btus with two high efficiency gas boilers that is a 60 per cent drop in Btus. The high efficiency boilers fire at a variable rate which can be 40,000 to 200,000 Btus per boiler depending on the outside temperature. Even during the extreme cold this month the boilers only fired at the high rate for a short time where one boiler fires at a lower rate for a longer period of time. Before in the other smaller apartment buildings when the oid coal oil fired fired boilers were changed to higher efficiency gas boilers the cost to heat was cut in half as well. The fifteen unit apartment building is brick block construction which is not well insulated by the standards of new construction. The other apartment buildings have to heat only the hallways as the heat is separated out for the suites where the tenants pay for the heat. Although it is difficult to rent when the heat is not included it is a lot better when it comes to operating costs. --209.226.xxx.xx

Elderly and skimpily dressed suggests mental or financial issues or both. Find a way to get her a nice warm bathrobe. --205.188.xxx.xxx

The summer after my first winter providing heat on this one property...I tore out everything and gave each unit 1 wall mounted - direct vent - Rinnai - propane heater - Installed a bulk tank with meters - each tenant pays their own heat now - the annual heat was over $5000 then(5 years ago - would be $10,000 now). $5000 was the total cost of the new systems (paid over 12 months) - so I was out of the heating business in under a year with the least amount of pain for all. I got 2 big empty utility rooms too! --75.68.xxx.xxx

New Jersey --192.4.xxx.x

Robert,Ontario is right,working efficiently for a 50 year old boiler may not be too good compared to a modern high efficiency one. Could be as much as 30 percent difference in total efficiency. --70.241.xxx.xx

Thanks again. --72.227.xxx.xxx

if i put in a controlled thermostat i would give her 72.and buy her a sweater.if thats not ok she can move to senior citizen housing.good luck --208.58.x.xx

Hope that kinda helps. Sorry I went off on a tangent there reminiscing about that goober :) --66.235.x.xxx

Really the only reasonable thing you can do is raise the rent. Shes not going to change-and its OPM-Other Peoples Money, so she has no motivation to. And if shes used to the whole place being 78, shes not going to be happy with a space heater either. I agree with Billy, she might be better off in senior housing. --68.112.xxx.xxx

TOo much information...ha! --24.126.xxx.xx

--72.227.xxx.xxx

Wow. By all means turn down the heat, maybe you'll get lucky and she'll move! --68.112.xxx.xxx

Instal an electric boiler in her unit. No venting no fuel delivery other than electricity. Tie her apartment into this boiler loop ad let her crank it up to whatever she feels comfortable with. The boiler will cost you about 1200 here in NY and than what ever to instal it. In NY a homeowner is not allowed to work on apartment buildings. If the same applies up there, you'll have to pay a licensed plumber. But even then if shes the reason for 275 gallons of oil a month, yould be ahead in a couple of months. As far as the rest of the apartments go, either instal a Tekmar as mentioned aboved or go with a Heat-Timer. If had favorable results with both. --56.0.xxx.xx